Osama Dead. Obama Confirms.

[Solomon2]

Hasty burial at sea for no good reason?

I say he is alive, if he was at the compound. The US is interrogating him and will eventually kill him and release the pictures.

They didn't want to announce the capture since that would have possibly spiked terrorist attacks against Western targets to bargain for his release and/or act in his name.

The US will eventually kill him, because it would be very hard to conceal a prisoner of his status for any long period of time. Get whatever information they can out of him, and then shoot him as described in the press releases and dump his body into the sea from some AC Carrier.

I would admit to the small possibility of this, but the soldiers left behind an eyewitness to the killing, Osama's own daughter.

 

[Solomon2]

The Great Pakistan Rethink

Zalmay Khalilzad

The killing of Osama bin Laden was an important success, but it raises vital strategic questions about Pakistan and our policy towards it.

The fact that bin Laden lived in a luxury compound one thousand yards from Pakistan’s national military academy and thirty miles from the capital city of Islamabad raises disturbing questions about the possible nexus between Pakistan’s security apparatus, al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremists.

After 9/11, President Bush declared that Pakistan must choose sides in the war on terrorism—either with us or against us. The administration delivered non-negotiable demands calling on Pakistan to cease its support for the Taliban regime and cooperate with the U.S.-led mission in Afghanistan. Pakistani president Musharraf initially acquiesced.

After the fall of the Taliban regime, however, the Bush administration prodded Pakistan for further cooperation through positive inducements and occasional pressure. It lifted sanctions that had been imposed on Pakistan for its nuclear program, eased pressure on the regime to democratize, and provided more than $11 billion in aid. Over 70 percent of American aid to Pakistan during the Bush years was security-related, focused on improving Pakistan’s counterterrorism capabilities. It also pressured Pakistan to move against extremists—particularly al-Qaeda.

Pakistan reciprocated with haphazard cooperation. It helped with transit routes and logistics in Afghanistan, though always in exchange for money. Its intelligence agency—the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI)—cooperated at times in capturing al-Qaeda operatives such as 9/11’s mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, and moved against anti-Pakistan Taliban at significant cost. But Pakistan's security institutions also worked against us by providing sanctuary and active support for the Taliban, Haqqani network, and other insurgent groups with different degrees of linkage to al-Qaeda.

The Obama administration basically retained the strategy of its predecessor, though it increased pressure on Pakistan in two important ways. First, it accelerated drone attacks and other activities against al-Qaeda and various extremists inside Pakistan’s borders. Second, it increased U.S. assistance to Pakistan and adjusted its aid by increasing funding for economic and development initiatives.

As in the case of the Bush administration, the Obama administration’s approach has not been decisive enough to produce a fundamental change in Pakistani policy. Islamabad wants to keep the pipeline of American assistance flowing while limiting U.S. anti-terror operations in Pakistan, particularly the drone attacks. It is also escalating pressure on U.S. forces in Afghanistan by, among other things, allowing factories to operate in places like Chaman that are producing improvised explosive devices designed to maim the legs and genital areas of soldiers. Its overall design seeks to turn its neighbor into a Pakistani satrapy.

Now, there may be an opportunity to bring about a change in Pakistani policy with respect to cooperating more fully with the United States. The raid against bin Laden’s compound has put Pakistan on the defensive. With evidence likely to emerge that the Pakistani military may have shielded bin Laden, Pakistani leaders may be more susceptible to American pressure than they have been at any time since immediately after 9/11.

We should therefore adopt a three-step strategy:

First, we should discuss the evidence and related issues with Pakistani leaders through official channels and demand the elimination of the remaining al-Qaeda leadership in Pakistan—either by arresting them and turning them over to the United States or by sharing information with Washington and allowing U.S. Special Forces (which have acquired amazing capabilities to move against specific targets) to operate against these terrorists. We should also push for the elimination of IED factories and signal that we would take direct measures ourselves if Pakistan does not act. As for the Afghan insurgents, Pakistan provides them with sanctuary and has enormous influence over the Taliban and the Haqqani network. We need to get Pakistan to cooperate with us and with Afghanistan to stop support for the Haqqani network, an al-Qaeda ally, and to embrace a constructive approach to an agreement ending the Afghan dispute and an agreement with the Taliban.

An agreement along these lines would be the best outcome, though it would have to be structured to ensure timely Pakistani action to fulfill its obligations. Pending agreement on these points, the administration should consider looking closely at security-related assistance. Coalition support funds—which reimburse the Pakistani military for counterterrorism operations and constitute a significant subsidy for its operating budget—should be adjusted. Payments should be linked to performance and achievement of established milestones.

It is possible that Pakistan might cooperate with this approach. Given Pakistan's importance for our efforts in Afghanistan, the security of its nuclear weapons and threat of extremism, what do we do if Islamabad remains obstinate? In such a situation the Obama administration would to well to consider a calibrated increase in pressure on Pakistan. We could expose information that we already have and are likely to obtain on Pakistan’s conduct in relations to terrorists, including Bin Laden and others. This rollout could be accompanied by demands for an international investigation into the relationship between the Pakistani regime and the entire range of militant groups that it harbors and supports—al-Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani network and other extremist and terrorist groups. Also, the Obama administration might expand its policy of unilateral air or Special Forces strikes to cover the leadership and sanctuaries of insurgents operating against us in Afghanistan.

The United States has myriad points of leverage that we should keep in reserve. These include blocking IMF funding that is crucial for Pakistan’s economic stability. The administration can designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism and raise the issue in front of the Security Council and other international forums. And it can also bolster ties with Pakistan’s chief rival, India. All of these steps are risky and should be exercised only in the most extreme of circumstances.

Given Pakistan's importance, the United States needs to continue, adjust and expand efforts to win over the Pakistani people. One area of expanded effort should be the empowerment of Pakistan’s civil society through a combination of aid, public diplomacy, and programs aimed at strengthening democracy, human rights, and the rule of law. Economically, it should pay greater attention to the country’s rampant corruption, high unemployment rate among young people, and dearth of investment in infrastructure and education.

Pakistan is important. The United States does not need Pakistan as an enemy. Pakistani leaders should fear hostile relations with Washington. Pakistan has acted both as our friend and as our adversary. In the current crisis of confidence, there may be an opportunity—if Islamabad makes a fundamental break from extremism and terrorism. Such a change would be the most consequential effect of the raid on bin Laden compound.

Commentary: The Great Pakistan Rethink | The National Interest

I don't usually re-quote articles in full, but I would urge Pakistanis to ponder this one. Khalizad isn't just any columnist, but an experienced diplomat who is one of the movers and shakers in Washington when it comes to S. Asian policy. He wouldn't write this if he didn't feel he had support, not only from Washington but imo from Pakistan's close friends in the region - specifically the Chinese. So it wasn't just in Washington where Pakistan's reputation was soiled, but Beijing as well.

 

[ephone]

I would admit to the small possibility of this, but the soldiers left behind an eyewitness to the killing, Osama's own daughter.

If U.S. soldiers want to kill his daughter, they could. If they have done that, they would have no reason to leave her alive.

BTW, even she is only 12, however, trained by a evil jihad dad day in and day out, I do not think she is that naive any more. Given a gun, she may kill anyone.

 

[foxbat]

Geelani calls for funeral prayers for Osama

Geelani calls for funeral prayers for Osama

Hardline Hurriyat Conference leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani has asked people to hold funeral prayers tomorrow for Osama bin Laden, the founder of al-Qaeda who was shot dead in Pakistan on May 2 by a US Navy team.

Geelani has appealed to Imams and people to hold funeral prayers in absentia for bin Laden after Friday prayers tomorrow afternoon, a Hurriyat spokesman said in a statement.
Terming him a 'martyr', Geelani said bin Laden was not just one person but "he represented a thinking which opposed foreign occupational forces".

"His heart bore the pain of the entire Muslim Ummah (community). He gave up his life of comfort to fight for their cause," the statement said.

The separatist leader said he wanted to participate in the funeral prayers but he has been placed under house arrest by the police since early this morning.Geelani appealed to people to pray for the liberation of Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan from the occupation of forces

 

[foxbat]

^^ Very Nice Mr Geelani.. Leads me to almost believe that you are on the payroll of GoI.. Good for you.. Discredit the Kashmir issue even more \o/

:ROFL:

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

What?

Did anyone think Pak Army is going to save Pakistan with people like Kiyani and Pasha in the lead?

Oh please... grow up for God sake...

 

[AcesAreDirty]

And how does this help Pakistanis solve their problems? For you it's just salve on a bruised ego, yes? The pain goes away a little, but the injury remains. Time may heal this, but if your ego is tied to something vulnerable it's going to get bruised again pretty soon, yes?[/QUOTE]

Lets not get judgemental about eachother so quickly, judgement lies with God only. What exactly are you trying establish with, "And how does this help Pakistanis solve their problems?" i joined this forum to learn more details from Pakistani accounts, army and ISI. But on this Forum, as I have come to learn, some people are oblivious to the fact their country has been engaged in brutal and unjust wars since a century and with an average of 0.5/year or 1 every 2 years and yet they have audacity to bash ordinary Pakistanis on this forum.

About OBL, he has no sympathy from over 90% of Pakstanis(Source: Analyst with a PHD on ME studies, can't remember his name but can look it up if you want) However the MSM thrives on portraying a minority of population to be representative of Pakistanis. How would your feelings be if entire Muslim world portrayed some republicunts as speaking voice of America against Islam.

Pakistan has a lot to answer which I am looking forward to with as much anxiety and anticipation as you probably might be wanting to know solution for the problem. Just a friendly advice, dont hold your breath over it!

 

[AAtish]

I am amazed that you still list the word 'integrity' in relation to our security agencies.

If this was the right direction, Pakistan would not be getting internationally maligned by all and one under the sun.

What the US does, did or did not do is anyones guess?

My post is specifically about what our security agencies are doing?

After all they have confirmed that it was Osama and they did not have any information on what happened. Why would they take this stance when they know that any respect or 'integrity' that they might have have will wither away. Why is the PA in such a position and isn't it their job to be alert at all times.

If another nation comes into a sovereign nation over the pretense of some mission, I am sure the army of that nation would clarify the reason, which PA clearly did not.

Why has the intelligence agency confirmed Osama was there, if he wasn't, why aren't they indicating this?

Its not the civilian governments fault at all, the army has failed and it has brought great destruction towards Pakistan.

I hope you are able to analyze, examine and then come to a conclusion because your point of view is restricted.

Thanks God.. Whenever a person talks logically I become very happy.. Having said that, I agree with you on the things you have mentioned and written.. My response is going to be a bit lengthy.. Please bear with me..

I don’t normally go into discussion mode in forums (better to keep intellectual level down, people don’t bother you and you can say whatever you want flame and counter-flame is fun ).. but just for you..

Lets analyse..

(Analytical Mode: Switched On)

You will be familiar with what intelligence and counter-intelligence is, its basically a game of chess.. one plans the moves and then assesses the opponent’s moves and then their own counter-moves.. this is a continuously on-going process..

I am not going to go into detail of what the circumstances were, and how did the intelligence agencies were trapped (I would if later on it is required).. but the bottom line is, now Pakistan is trapped..

The rule of game of chess is, if you are stuck in a situation, find the best possible move to minimise the loss.. Right now, Pakistan is in a situation where on one side it has to justify its standings to its own citizen and on the other side it has to justify its Global standings..

Please keep it in mind that I’m not talking about “monkey” which are jumping here and there and giving “bayaan” time-in time-out.. I’m talking about the “main players”.. the “planners” which move the “beads” in globally expanded “board”..

At the moment, Pakistan has to carefully plan its future steps.. its “counter moves”.. who knows what it is going to be? (I can assume some scenarios).. but the first thing is to “nullify” the effect of current situation in “global game”.. and that cannot be done on the spot.. un-planned steps might take us into deeper hole..

Why is ISPR quite? Why are Intelligence agencies not coming out with “what we want to listen”? it’s the obvious line of action, the only way to take..

When the US seals undertook the operation and then US report of “Osama Is dead” (courtesy Obama) came out.. The intelligence agencies found their possible “way out” of this mess.. they found a lot of continuity holes in this story (just like most of us).. what could have they done? Please look at two scenarios I’m giving below:

1. They come to television channels on first given instance and deny that Osama was there.. and this operation was just a drama. (no one would have listened) Or
2. Let the time turn the wheel, let “others” ask the questions.. These “holes” in the “story” were so many that it was impossible for people to ignore them.

This brought us to current situation, every one (including International Media and even US citizen) is asking questions about credibility of US operation. A judge in US has called it “extra judicial killing”.. story has changed countless times.. now people are saying that US operation was wrong.. (the only thing they accept to be positive in all this is that Osama is dead, that also falls in favour of Pakistan “khus kum jahaan pak”)..

Now lets come back to the chess board.. your opponent has taken an additional “bead” but has made a strategical mistake.. (or maybe you forced him to make that mistake).. now what to do?.. capitalise on this mistake!.. (urdu: buray ko buray kay ghar chor kar aao).. Lets analyse that also..

1. Pakistani Intelligence agencies can take out operation clean up against terrorists on the basis of “Country’s greater good”
2. Intelligence Bureau can take out “unwanted” elements (read CIA and RAW) quietly..

If you are keeping in touch with current news in Pakistan.. around 250+ people have been picked by IAs here and there.. and taken to an “unknown” place.. (you know what that means right?).. a few terrorists would commit suicide bombing here and there..

There can be more possibilities (read political) but I’m again not going to go into them, let the “monkeys” deal with that..

I can go on and on.. as I said before.. losing one battle doesn’t mean you lost the war..

Why are agencies not talking to Pakistani nation? Cuz they have more trust on Pakistani people and their logic and intelligence as compared to dumb and dull US citizen who don’t even know that currency of their parent country..

Hope I clarified myself..

(Analytical Mode: switched Off)

Oye tangain tor dain gay.. bring the proof!!.. until there is any proof we won’t accept anything..

 

[Zarbe Momin]

This operation has opend lot of questions about Pak Army and PAF?
1. Were Kiyani and Pasha on board (They knew about operation) or not? If they knew then this operation had to be conducted sole by SSG or mutually with Navy Seals of USA and if they did'nt know then it means USA used Kiyani and Pasha as jokers.
2. Did USA jamed PAF Radar Warning Systems? If yes then Pakistan should worry about it's future.
3. Will USA repat operations like this?
4. After this operation what justification can be argued that atiomic assests are safe.

 

[AAtish]

Fair enough. And let me tell you that India does not have the capability to do so. Hope that massages your ego adequately.

But on my question (which you evaded), What's you position on Pakistan not taking action against the likes of Dawood and Hafiz Saeed etc?

If it is in the interest of our country, then and only then we'll take action.. is that fair enough?

 

[AAtish]

Nobody were armed at TWIN TOWER too.

Logic?????

 

[Patriot]

Now we need to launch search operations and take out all roaches and present them in front of International Media to establish our credibility again.It is in gutter right now.

 

[AAtish]

European discomfort grows about bin Laden killing | Reuters

LOL

Seriously sometimes these Euros act so funny. Living in a make-believe world, aren't they?

Worrying about 'human rights' of, the world's most evil murderer, Osama Bin Laden...after themselves centuries of killing, pillaging and raping countries around the world.

Their whole economies are based on the blood of millions of men, women and children around the world. The blood which they themselves spilt with such religious fervor for centuries, not even decades.

Sau Sau Choohe Kha Ke Billi Hajj Ko Chali

LOL

Look who is talking

 

[Developereo]

Why is everyone so hostile to this^^ scenario? In fact this is exactly what I too have been thinking as one of the most plausible reasons why no pictures of a deceased Osama have been issued.

Exactly. I said the same thing a few pages back.

The official story keeps changing every few hours and has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese:
- The chopper was shot at; it had a malfunction.
- There was a firefight; there was no firefight.
- He hid behind a woman; she lunged in front herself.
- He was lunging for a weapon; he wasn't.
- He was shot while resisting arrest; he was taken alive and then shot (daughter).
- There was an AK-47 besides him; there were no weapons in the compound (ISI).
- The area was cordoned off; the raid was over before the Pakistanis could react.
- The power was shut off to the area; the raid was over before the Pakistanis could react.
- They had been living there for 5 years; they only moved there 5-6 months ago (wife).

This nonsense about DNA evidence is silly; they could have collected a sample decades ago.
Basically, all we have is the authorities telling us "yeah he was shot and the body dumped; trust us".
The sheeple swallow the custom-made Rambo-style Hollywood story and anybody who dares to ask questions is dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

He is far more useful alive than dead, but having him in custody would raise issues of trial, rights, and terrorist threats, so the official story is that he is dead. Meanwhile, he is quietly being "interrogated" by a small team and will be executed when the "interrogation" is over.

 

[bc040400065]

Hi, well let's keep this in perspective. The PAF was probably not on a war footing and the "stealth helicopters" were probably flying in 50-100 ft off the ground. This making anything but an AWACS from detecting them impossible.

Also please do recall how a German kid flew a Cessna plane into the heart of red square in the 1980's, or how a Russian SU-24 did a mach 1+ buzz over the deck of a US AC carrier, a few years back.

So it is embarassing, yes, but folks should not get too many ideas. Afterall, the US pilot did crash a heli, now how stupid was that? Also the PAF has most of its assets, radars, and AWACS facing east.
However, you cannot compete with the US in terms of technology as they have the best. Moreover, I am glad this raid did take place as the outcome was beneficial to the entire world.

Sorry dear but Abbottabad is right next to kashmir and is what one can call the 2nd GHQ of army, and they cann't detect flying heli's not one but 3 or 4..... sorry but our military i think needs to figure it out what happened in abbottabad.