Origins of our Caste System: Hindu Jaat or Arab Kafa'a?

[DRaisinHerald]

Curious do you "Equate ARAIN" with Arab Descent & hence Aryan?!

I don't think so; as far as I know Arain and Aryan don't have much of a connection. Arain comes from the word Areeha (correct me if I'm wrong), which is a city also known as Jericho in English; and Aryan means 'noble'.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I assure you I have seen the video I posted.

I do not rush to judge the intelligence of people based their "looks".

That's a funny attempt at trolling. What makes you think I judge people based upon their "looks"? When I used the word "look" in this sentence: "Does that dumb "Imam" look like he is capable of reasoning, logical thinking or rational enquiry?", I meant that based on his views do you think his views are logical or rational?

I think you need to watch that video you posted again. Oh yeah, I asked some of my friends about these "crypto-Jews" in Saudi Arabia, & no one seems to know a thing about that. I suggest you present some facts regarding these "crypto-Jews" that you believe are living in Saudi Arabia.

How about this Shaykh? Does he "look" dumb to you?

Once again, try & understand the context of the usage of the word "look". It seems that you too lack the ability to think logically, & I am waiting for you to prove that there are secret Jews in Arabia.

Do you think he is, in your words, "capable of reasoning, logical thinking or rational enquiry"?

Are Shias disbelievers? Answered by my favourite Sheikh Dr. Muhammad Salah. - YouTube

To be honest, I don't know much about Shi'ism or their beliefs. It's true that there are different sects among them too. I agree with this scholar in the sense that if someone insults the wives of the Prophet or his companions, then he or she can not be a "true" believer.

To simplify the matter, as long as a person believes that there is no God but Allah, & Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger, then he or she is a Muslim. This goes for both the "Sunnis" & "Shias", as long as they believe that, they are Muslims in my eyes.

I suggest that you take up your discussion with Shia members in this forum. Do you personally believe that Shias are Muslims? By the way, religious discussions are prohibited in this forum.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

............ Oh yeah, I asked some of my friends about these "crypto-Jews" in Saudi Arabia, & no one seems to know a thing about that. I suggest you present some facts regarding these "crypto-Jews" that you believe are living in Saudi Arabia.........

It may well be that your "Arab" friends are crypto-Jews themselves. That may precisely be why they were willing to make friends with you in the first place. They probably want find out what is really going on in Pakistan and how your thought-processes actually work. In other words, they might well be studying you like a specimen to extract data. It is an old technique called "groom & pump" and the crypto-Jews have been doing it for centuries in the Islamic & Christian Worlds. Naturally, they will deny it if you ask them-- that's precisely why they are called "crypto".....

Still, it really does not matter. Let us just say that there are no crypto-Jews in the Hejaz and leave it at that. Let ignorance bring bliss.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

It may well be that your "Arab" friends are crypto-Jews themselves. That may precisely be why they were willing to make friends with you in the first place. They probably want find out what is really going on in Pakistan and how your thought-processes actually work. In other words, they might well be studying you like a specimen to extract data. It is an old technique called "groom & pump" and the crypto-Jews have been doing it for centuries in the Islamic & Christian Worlds. Naturally, they will deny it if you ask them-- that's precisely why they are called "crypto".....

Have you considered writing fictional novels?

I have no idea what this "groom & pump" technique you refer to is, neither have I ever come across this term before. The idea that people here are studying Pakistanis to extract data is hilarious.

I did not ask anyone if they were Jewish, I simply asked 2 of my friends if they had ever heard of this theory. It turns out that they had never heard of it. Lets not rule out the possibility that my friends could be reptilians too right?

My Arab friends aren't just from Saudi Arabia alone, this country has Arab immigrants from all over the Arab world. Could they be crypto-Jews as well? Should I recite the "Shema Yisrael" in front of them & judge their identity by their reaction?

Still, it really does not matter. Let us just say that there are no crypto-Jews in the Hejaz and leave it at that. Let ignorance bring bliss.

You come up with the accusation that there are crypto-Jews in Arabia, & then you are unable to prove it. It's obvious that you are the ignorant one here. Anyway, it's pointless to carry on this discussion.

 

[Awesome]

I am a Muslim Pakistani Arain.

Araeen saeen, sabhi thaeen
Rab diyaan bay parwaiyaan
-- Bulleh Shah

I always encourage people to say that "I'm a Pakistani" khatam. Muslim, Punjabi, Sindhi are your further features - sub categories about your description. There is no question of something being first or second they are apples and oranges to be compared

Identity sirf aur sirf mulk se hai.

 

[XTREME]

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.” [Abu Dawud]

 

[Riyadh Haque]

....... It seems that you too lack the ability to think logically.........

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...s-non-muslims-grand-mufti-23.html#post3197112

....... Do you personally believe that Shias are Muslims? .........

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...2-who-gets-muslim-pakistan-7.html#post3324321

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.” [Abu Dawud]

Salafi Scholar Tauseef Ur Rehman Rashidi on Pakistani Jihad - 2 - YouTube

Kya Kashmir ki Jung Jihad he? By Shaikh Tausif Ur Rehman Excellent Answer.flv - YouTube

CCTV shows Lahore Suicide Bomber at Data Darbar Sufi Shrine - YouTube

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...s-non-muslims-grand-mufti-23.html#post3197112

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...2-who-gets-muslim-pakistan-7.html#post3324321

What is the point of providing me links to your posts on other threads? I didn't read them, & neither do I have time to go through those threads to catch up on the discussion there.

Or are you asking me if Ahmadis are Muslims? I provided the definition of a Muslim to you in the second last paragraph of post #32 of this thread:

"To simplify the matter, as long as a person believes that there is no God but Allah, & Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger, then he or she is a Muslim. This goes for both the "Sunnis" & "Shias", as long as they believe that, they are Muslims in my eyes."

Anyone that differs from that isn't a Muslim. As I said earlier, religious discussion is forbidden on this forum. Anyway, stop wasting my time, our discussion is over.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

............. as long as a person believes that there is no God but Allah, & Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger, then he or she is a Muslim.............

There is this nice Punjabi fellow I know from Lahore called "Bunty". He truly believes and bears witness that "there is no God but Allah, and Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger".

It appears that he had a dream some years ago that Allah had descended to earth and presented himself in the form of his grandmother's cat.

I have seen him doing sajda before the cat.

I reminded him that worshipping (sajda) something other than Allah was un-Islamic. He responded by saying that he was indeed worshipping Allah, since he believed that Allah had appeared before him in the form of his grandmother's cat.

I asked him how it was possible that the cat could actually be Allah in physical form. He replied that "all things are possible with Allah, all things are easy for Allah". I really did not know what to say, so I just smiled at him and let the matter drop.

I have seen him praying facing the cat's litter-box as Baitullah. I have witnessed him making dua to the cat. He seems terrified that he might upset the cat. He fears that the cat might throw him into the hell-fire.

Nonetheless, I can definitely confirm that he truly believes and regularly bears witness that "there is no God but Allah, and Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger".

Therefore, Bunty is a Muslim.

The Ahmadis, however, are not. Because there is some questionable ambiguity in their theological position regarding the "last & final" part.

......As I said earlier, religious discussion is forbidden on this forum........

This is not a religious discussion. It is a philosophical one.
This is not about whether God exists or not.
This is not about whether Religion is true or not.

This is about the processes we use when we go about forming opinions.

......Anyway, stop wasting my time, our discussion is over...........

You could easily conserve your precious time by not responding to my posts.

I never realized the two of us were having a special discussion. I thought I was justing posting on a forum for all members to discuss. If I had known that this was a one-on-one discussion, I would have contacted you directly in private.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

There is this nice Punjabi fellow I know from Lahore called "Bunty". He truly believes and bears witness that "there is no God but Allah, and Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger".

It appears that he had a dream some years ago that Allah had descended to earth and presented himself in the form of his grandmother's cat.

I have seen him doing sajda before the cat.

I reminded him that worshipping (sajda) something other than Allah was un-Islamic. He responded by saying that he was indeed worshipping Allah, since he believed that Allah had appeared before him in the form of his grandmother's cat.

I asked him how it was possible that the cat could actually be Allah in physical form. He replied that "all things are possible with Allah, all things are easy for Allah". I really did not know what to say, so I just smiled at him and let the matter drop.

I have seen him praying facing the cat's litter-box as Baitullah. I have witnessed him making dua to the cat. He seems terrified that he might upset the cat. He fears that the cat might throw him into the hell-fire.

Nonetheless, I can definitely confirm that he truly believes and regularly bears witness that "there is no God but Allah, and Prophet Muhammad is His last & final messenger".

Therefore, Bunty is a Muslim.

The Ahmadis, however, are not. Because there is some questionable ambiguity in their theological position regarding the "last & final" part.

Are you insane or are you really desperate enough to get in to another argument with me? Belief in the "Shahada" is not just about believing in the statement itself, but in the concept of the unity of God called "Tawhid". God is self-subsisting, eternal, incapable of relying on anything; not even space. Thus it is impossible for him to be contained within His creation knowing the fact that He is eternal & self-subsisting. Remember that it is He who created "space", so He can never rely on it. Relying on it would contradict the quality of being self-subsisting. The Creator can not have any attributes of the creation, an attribute that may be mimicked, is incapable of being unique.

God according to the Islamic view isn't made up of pieces, for that which consists of pieces must have been constructed, & seeing as parts are incapable of rearranging themselves it is impossible for God to take on the form of another being. Note that consisting of pieces goes against the attribute of being eternal, speaking from a theological perspective that is. The reasoning behind this is simple, organisms consisting of parts work together to survive. This is observable by the presence of different organs in the human body, each performs a separate task, yet they contribute to sustaining the being they reside in. It's impossible for these parts be truly independent, because in their case, their existence & life depends upon working together in a collaborative manner. This again contradicts the attribute of self-sufficiency & being eternal. Of course these concepts may be too difficult for you to understand.

I do not consider Ahmadis Muslims either. I respect other people's beliefs, but they are definitely not Muslims.

This is not a religious discussion. It is a philosophical one.
This is not about whether God exists or not.
This is not about whether Religion is true or not.

This is about the processes we use when we go about forming opinions.

Had it not been a religious discussion, you would have ceased bringing religion in to the discussion. Think before you type.

You could easily conserve your precious time by not responding to my posts.

Unfortunately, it is you that is going to have to stop replying to me. I can not ignore a post once it has been addressed to me.

I never realized the two of us were having a special discussion. I thought I was justing posting on a forum for all members to discuss. If I had known that this was a one-on-one discussion, I would have contacted you directly in private.

Our discussion isn't special, neither is it a one-on-one discussion. If you want to avoid discussing with me, go annoy some other poster on this thread. Please inform some other posters here about your beliefs regarding "crypto-Jews" & other crap.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

.... ....

So is Bunty a Muslim or not?

What shall I tell him?

He is waiting to hear your judgement.....

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

So is Bunty a Muslim or not?

What shall I tell him?

He is waiting to hear your judgement.....

Pass judgment on your friends using your own beliefs & opinions. I couldn't care less to be honest.

 

[zynga]

Curious do you "Equate ARAIN" with Arab Descent & hence Aryan?!

arabs are not aryan. please.
they were real berbers and had/have no clture.

caste system is like nuclar techonligy.. you can use it for good or bad purposes. depends on how its being used

 

[zynga]

Araeen saeen, sabhi thaeen
Rab diyaan bay parwaiyaan
-- Bulleh Shah

I always encourage people to say that "I'm a Pakistani" khatam. Muslim, Punjabi, Sindhi are your further features - sub categories about your description. There is no question of something being first or second they are apples and oranges to be compared

Identity sirf aur sirf mulk se hai.

lol.. looks like you havent taken a look atyour passport and signed blindly. even your govt doesnt say that.