OPPORTUNITY - Pentagon suspends weapon deliveries to Iraq, leaving Iraqi F-16 fleet in the air

[Signalian]

PAF didn't ask for it. US Navy bought them.

AFAIK US Navy refused to hand them over when other 14 x F-16 A/B were handed over back to PAF before deliveries of Block 52+ began.

Original = 32 (actually 31 since 1 crashed)
US delivered used F-16s = 14 (used)
New F-16 = 18 x Block 52+
RJAF = 13 x ADF

Total = 76

When US delivered used 14 x F-16, thats when PAF asked for other 14 x F-16 used by USN aggressor sqd, but USN refused.

 

[Raider 21]

AFAIK US Navy refused to hand them over when other 14 x F-16 A/B were handed over back to PAF before deliveries of Block 52+ began.

Original = 32 (actually 31 since 1 crashed)
US delivered used F-16s = 14 (used)
New F-16 = 18 x Block 52+
RJAF = 13 x ADF

Total = 76

When US delivered used 14 x F-16, thats when PAF asked for other 14 x F-16 used by USN aggressor sqd, but USN refused.

Yes. Plus the US Navy are using them well at Top Gun. You think heavily stressed airframes would be of any good use if they came to Pakistan after 10+ years of heavy G loadings on those jets for almost on a daily basis.

 

[Signalian]

Yes. Plus the US Navy are using them well at Top Gun. You think heavily stressed airframes would be of any good use if they came to Pakistan after 10+ years of heavy G loadings on those jets for almost on a daily basis.

Are they MLU'ed already like Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian etc?

 

[Ultima Thule]

You probably talking about K77. Yes it has but India doesnt have it now. Meteor is said to have the highest NEZ.

Then we have PL-15 on JF-17 block-3 for counter Meteor

What edge does deltas like Mirages have over normal wing config like F-16/Thunders.?

bro shortest answer for you is that Delta built for speed and straight line flying like famous SR-71/F-106 and had bad maneuverability/agility they have good sustain turn rates but bad at instantaneous turn rates, however with discovery of whitcomb area rules fuselage and negative static stability rules delta wings jets as maneuverable/agile as Cropped tailed delta wings jets like F-16/F-15 and CANARDS are further enhance the maneuverability/agility of current delta wings jets

 

[Kakaspai]

Present day Iraq is not the same as it was once back in history. Actually it's not possible to figure out, who represent Iraq. Diplomatically Iraq is a buddy of India.

There are more chance that Iraqis would use that training against Pakistan, instead of fighting war with occupying forces! We tried training northern alliance during Zardair rule, but they used it against Pakistan.

On the subject, what was US thinking, when they were gifting F-16 to a destabilized state?

I thought iraq purchased those f 16s

 

[Raider 21]

Are they MLU'ed already like Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian etc?

Nope. F-16A/B Block 15 OCU

 

[Signalian]

Nope. F-16A/B Block 15 OCU

Since MLU encompasses structural integrity, so after MLU the life should increase ? or am i missing something ?

 

[khanasifm]

PAF F-16s are harpoon capable. F-16 formations keep moving in flights/detachments all around Pakistan- Masroor to Skardu. F-16 will be spread all over Pakistan in case of war. Bholari AFB housing F-16 is the closest to the coastline ? That would put F-16 in AD role closer to the coastline.

Since officially Pakistan has AGM-84 equipped on P-3C, but Exocet on Mirage-V and C-802 on JF-17 are there. There are around 12 Mirage-VPA and probably 16-18 JF-17 which is MultiRole, so not dedicated to Naval support role only. The previous aircraft of 2nd Squadron was F-7P used in same role as ROSE-I, air superiority role, but now the replacement of F-7P is JF-17, which has enhanced capabilities thus its scope of role has increased.

A few highlights about Masroor AFB.

1. Interestingly, Mirage-III ROSE-I is stationed at Masroor which shows that air cover/escort/AD of Karachi as well as for escort for Naval support Mirage-VPA was envisioned through this ROSE-I squadron.

2. Ra'ad ALCM was fired through Mirage-III DP deployed at Masroor AFB.

3. Other Mirage-III at Masroor are mixture of radar equipped fighter-bomber and few radar less ones. Rest are two seater Mirage-III used for training and conversion.

So even before JF-17 was introduced at Masroor and F-16 was stationed close at Bholari, PAF had its Air Wing covering all scopes of aerial combat (Air Defence-Mirage-III ROSE I + F7P, tactical attack- Mirage-III, interdiction- Mirage-III, long range attack as ALCM -Mirage-III) including naval - Mirage-V.

However, not only a long range fighter bomber is missing but still F-16 stands out in terms of range and payload. Mirage-V can match bombing payload sometimes, probably la behind in range. JF-17 pitches in with modern weaponry and pods. If Air refueler comes into play, that could increase range, but escorting refueler 50-100 km from coastline can be an issue.

Paf never bought harpoon and the harpoon available are with pn for p3 air launched version


Not sure if paf f-16 can just load harpoon on f-16 borrowing from pn but never seen paf f-16 carrying even a training round

End of story

 

[airomerix]

Since MLU encompasses structural integrity, so after MLU the life should increase ? or am i missing something ?

It does. But MLU is different.

Falcon Star upgrade is an extensive rework of areas such as aircraft skin, wing fittings. F-16s service life is originally 8000 hrs. It increases it to 16000 hrs (subject to premature mechanical/part failures).

PAF did purchase this program for all Block 15's along with MLU kits.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Doubt India will go for F16s so its pointless for them. Pakistan doesn't have the money for now (as far as I am aware). I guess one of the ME countries will prob buy them if they get a chance to but if Pakistan can get these then it would be a bonus I guess.

can't. buy without American approval provided the Iraqis are willing to sell in the first place

 

[Sine Nomine]

The Iraqis will still need approval to sell to us and we would not be served by vipers with AMRAAM use hardware locked out.

In my opinion at some point in coming decade we would taste pressler amendment again,better do something about it.

 

[Trailer23]

can't. buy without American approval provided the Iraqis are willing to sell in the first place

Scenario matches something similar to the Venezuelan Air Force's F-16.

Only difference is that those 20 are beat up A/B's from 1983, and after the embargo of 2006 by the US, Venezuela hasn't received parts for over a decade. Its anyone's guess that they've probably been cannibalized just to keep some still flying.

The Iraqi F-16's are Block 52's just like ours.

 

[Raider 21]

Scenario matches something similar to the Venezuelan Air Force's F-16.

Only difference is that those 20 are beat up A/B's from 1983, and after the embargo of 2006 by the US, Venezuela hasn't received parts for over a decade. Its anyone's guess that they've probably been cannibalized just to keep some still flying.

The Iraqi F-16's are Block 52's just like ours.

They were getting parts on the black market, a good number of stuff from Israel.

The Iraqi Block 52+ jets are not configured for AMRAAMs and don't carry CFTs.

 

[Ansu fati]

Iraqi f-16s are seriously downgraded in capabilities i think it’s better for pakistan if they buy more JF-17 thunder block 3 rather than buying these kind of F-16s

 

[Marker]

but our beggar mentality will never change

Whatever aid Pakistan received from US and its allies was not for free. Pakistan stand against USSR and received "AID" in return from US. Pakistan supported US and its allies during Afghan conflict logistically and again in return received "AID". So begging is out of question. Basically US and its allies were paying the cost of our "services" so the money $$$ received was never an aid to a beggar country, it was a payment well deserve.

However, it is very unfortunate that the looters who ruled Pakistan laundered it out back to the parent (western) countries. Even the loans taken from IMF and World Banks were never used to uplift Pakistan's economy.

After exit of PML(N) and PPP, the current leadership - IK and Pakistan Armed Forces do not show any sign of that mentality. Now Pakistan do not ask for AID but peace in the region. (Refer previous year US visit etc)

So you need to correct this statement.

There is a visible change in the right direction though slow but obvious.

Insha Allah, soon Pakistan will be standing as one of the fast growing economies in Asia, free from clutches of IMF and World Bank.