Opinionated - China Chipping Away to Semiconductor Dominance

[Skull and Bones]

I don't have a daughter. Just saying. Too far off from that.

It's a Multiphysics simulation tool, if you have the equations and parameters, you can simulate photonics, to quantum physics, to aerospace physical entities. Comsol experts are highly sought after in engineering job market now.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This industry is naturally China's turf. The current competitors will simply have to adjust to this reality and transfer to other industries. Or they can stay and face the onslaught of competition and be stomped and ground into dust.

Taiwan and South Korea are just the foundry for the western semiconductor.

Whereas we are initiating our own R&D infrastructure, and that's why not only Taiwan and South Korea will get stomped, now even Japan looks very weak compared to us.

We are eyeing to the world class league.

 

[Keel]

Taiwan and South Korea are just the foundry for the western semiconductor.

Whereas we are initiating our own R&D infrastructure, and that's why not only Taiwan and South Korea will get stomped, now even Japan looks very weak compared to us.

We are eyeing to the world class league.

Taiwan is the no 2 right Tiger?
Here is a report on China's progress
Semiconductors in China: Brave new world or same old story? | McKinsey & Company

Multinational corporations in every industry—from automotive to industrial controls to enterprise equipment—increasingly are establishing design centers on the mainland to be closer to customers and benefit from local Chinese talent. McKinsey’s proprietary research indicates that more than 50 percent of PCs, and between 30 and 40 percent of embedded systems (commonly found in automotive, commercial, consumer, industrial, and medical applications), contain content designed in China, either directly by mainland companies or emerging from the Chinese labs of global players. As the migration of design continues, China could soon influence up to 50 percent of hardware designs globally (including phones, wireless devices, and other consumer electronics).

Fabless semiconductor companies are also emerging in China to serve local customers. For instance, Shanghai-based Spreadtrum Communications, which designs chips for mobile phones, and Shenzhen-based HiSilicon Technologies, a captive supplier to Huawei and one of the largest domestic designers of semiconductors in China, are among the local designers that have shown rapid growth over the past few years.

There has been slower but steady progress among local foundries. For reasons including costs and scale—and, in some cases, export controls—these players traditionally have been reluctant to invest in cutting-edge technologies, always lagging three or four years behind the industry leaders. But the performance gap is shrinking. As global players such as Samsung, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, and Texas Instruments set up shop in China, leading local foundries such as Shanghai Huali Microelectronics Corporation, SMIC, and XMC are poised to benefit from the development of a true technology cluster. At the same time, fewer and fewer chip designs will be moving to technologies that are 20 nanometers and below; following Moore’s law is becoming too expensive and is of limited benefit to all but a small set of global semiconductor companies. As a result, low-cost, lagging-edge Chinese technology companies will soon be able to address a larger part of the global market.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Taiwan is the no 2 right Tiger?
Here is a report on China's progress
Semiconductors in China: Brave new world or same old story? | McKinsey & Company

Multinational corporations in every industry—from automotive to industrial controls to enterprise equipment—increasingly are establishing design centers on the mainland to be closer to customers and benefit from local Chinese talent. McKinsey’s proprietary research indicates that more than 50 percent of PCs, and between 30 and 40 percent of embedded systems (commonly found in automotive, commercial, consumer, industrial, and medical applications), contain content designed in China, either directly by mainland companies or emerging from the Chinese labs of global players. As the migration of design continues, China could soon influence up to 50 percent of hardware designs globally (including phones, wireless devices, and other consumer electronics).

Fabless semiconductor companies are also emerging in China to serve local customers. For instance, Shanghai-based Spreadtrum Communications, which designs chips for mobile phones, and Shenzhen-based HiSilicon Technologies, a captive supplier to Huawei and one of the largest domestic designers of semiconductors in China, are among the local designers that have shown rapid growth over the past few years.

There has been slower but steady progress among local foundries. For reasons including costs and scale—and, in some cases, export controls—these players traditionally have been reluctant to invest in cutting-edge technologies, always lagging three or four years behind the industry leaders. But the performance gap is shrinking. As global players such as Samsung, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, and Texas Instruments set up shop in China, leading local foundries such as Shanghai Huali Microelectronics Corporation, SMIC, and XMC are poised to benefit from the development of a true technology cluster. At the same time, fewer and fewer chip designs will be moving to technologies that are 20 nanometers and below; following Moore’s law is becoming too expensive and is of limited benefit to all but a small set of global semiconductor companies. As a result, low-cost, lagging-edge Chinese technology companies will soon be able to address a larger part of the global market.

Soon, these Taiwanese and South Koreans chips manufacturing companies will become our sweatshop.

 

[Keel]

Soon, these Taiwanese and South Koreans chips manufacturing companies will become our sweatshop.

Cant help quoting these for the second time on PDF
Still a long way to go

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Cant help quoting these for the second time on PDF
Still a long way to go

According to this trend, soon we will become dominant in every domain.

 

[Keel]

According to this trend, soon we will become dominant in every domain.

Hope so

 

[Donatello]

It's a Multiphysics simulation tool, if you have the equations and parameters, you can simulate photonics, to quantum physics, to aerospace physical entities. Comsol experts are highly sought after in engineering job market now.

Thanks. I guess it's more for post grad level work. My undergrad thesis was using Cadence, and after the LVS part, i was like, enough design work for now.

But here is thing, where is the most demand for such professionals? As posted above, probably USA, China, Taiwan and Singapore??

 

[Skull and Bones]

Thanks. I guess it's more for post grad level work. My undergrad thesis was using Cadence, and after the LVS part, i was like, enough design work for now.

But here is thing, where is the most demand for such professionals? As posted above, probably USA, China, Taiwan and Singapore??

US and China mostly, and maybe in EU. Not sure about Singapore or Taiwan.

 

[Sliver]

On the title of the thread:
Semi Conductor Manufacturing isnt a naturally available depleting resource as Petroleum and Natural Gas.
That should be a counter point enough?

 

[mike2000]

Taiwanese pay sucks these days。

Yet they are more advanced than China. i am shocked by this news: ' China is a huge consumer of chips, accounting for about 45 percent of worldwide demand. Imports feed more than 90 percent of that demand, with almost a quarter of processors bought from Taiwan, according to a McKinsey report in August and Chinese customs statistics from 2012.'

JESUS....wow.....So the country basically import almost all its semi conductors chips from little Taiwan, and to a lesser extent South Korea, Japan and the U.S. I was thinking China being an electronics hub was producing almost all its own semi conductors chips, meanwhile it was the total opposite. Its indeed a huge failure by the government i must say. You people indeed have a longggggg way to go to catch up with 'little' Taiwan. Kudos to Taiwan, for being soo small yet so advanced in this field than even South Korea and Japan.

 

[cirr]

Yet they are more advanced than China. i am shocked by this news: ' China is a huge consumer of chips, accounting for about 45 percent of worldwide demand. Imports feed more than 90 percent of that demand, with almost a quarter of processors bought from Taiwan, according to a McKinsey report in August and Chinese customs statistics from 2012.'

JESUS....wow.....So the country basically import almost all its semi conductors chips from little Taiwan, and to a lesser extent South Korea, Japan and the U.S. I was thinking China being an electronics hub was producing almost all its own semi conductors chips, meanwhile it was the total opposite. Its indeed a huge failure by the government i must say. You people indeed have a longggggg way to go to catch up with 'little' Taiwan. Kudos to Taiwan, for being soo small yet so advanced in this field than even South Korea and Japan.

China has got a lot catch up to do。

That's why I have always been of the opinion that China has hardly left the starting block。

But when China finally arrives，a lot of household names in the West will either be taken over by their Chinese competitors or disappear into the dustbin。

PS Taiwanese graduates are paid less than their Mainland counterparts in the more developed regions of Mainland China。These guys are known in Taiwan as 22k（4400 yuan，715 USD），going for 15k。

PPS Xiaomi，China's largest smartphone maker，has setup a joint venture with one of China's top-3 chip manufacturers。The company has also created its own chip development team with over 20 extremely talented people at the core。My prediction is that Xiaomi will cut its ties with Mediatek within 2-3 years。

Things are moving very fast。

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Yet they are more advanced than China. i am shocked by this news: ' China is a huge consumer of chips, accounting for about 45 percent of worldwide demand. Imports feed more than 90 percent of that demand, with almost a quarter of processors bought from Taiwan, according to a McKinsey report in August and Chinese customs statistics from 2012.'

JESUS....wow.....So the country basically import almost all its semi conductors chips from little Taiwan, and to a lesser extent South Korea, Japan and the U.S. I was thinking China being an electronics hub was producing almost all its own semi conductors chips, meanwhile it was the total opposite. Its indeed a huge failure by the government i must say. You people indeed have a longggggg way to go to catch up with 'little' Taiwan. Kudos to Taiwan, for being soo small yet so advanced in this field than even South Korea and Japan.

Taiwan is a LONG ways away from Japan. It is not even close.

Buying from Taiwan =/= they are the most advanced. In semiconductors, it is well known that the US is the most advanced. This is not just because of the actual devices produced but because of the process instrumentation and process engineering in these countries. The machines used to fabricate the chips in Taiwan and South Korea are all from US or Japan, made by companies such as Applied Materials and Nikon. And what about testing equipment? Again, most surface testing equipment, memory testing, etc. is all from the US and Japan. As of now, Taiwan and South Korea have very few players in the semiconductor process equipment category. At least there are Chinese companies that are making process equipment and testing equipment.

Some ppl have this mistaked as dependence. There's no dependence - if Taiwan cuts mainland off, then their companies will crash; there's already companies like HiSilicon, Spreadtrum, etc. in the design sector and SMIC, Huahong, etc. in the fabrication sector waiting in the wings ready to substitute their own products. There's also hundreds of labs at academic institutions with the equipment and the intellectual property to quickly form startups if market conditions are right (read, competitors exit the market).

 

[terranMarine]

Taiwan is a LONG ways away from Japan. It is not even close.

Buying from Taiwan =/= they are the most advanced. In semiconductors, it is well known that the US is the most advanced. This is not just because of the actual devices produced but because of the process instrumentation and process engineering in these countries. The machines used to fabricate the chips in Taiwan and South Korea are all from US or Japan, made by companies such as Applied Materials and Nikon. And what about testing equipment? Again, most surface testing equipment, memory testing, etc. is all from the US and Japan. As of now, Taiwan and South Korea have very few players in the semiconductor process equipment category. At least there are Chinese companies that are making process equipment and testing equipment.

Some ppl have this mistaked as dependence. There's no dependence - if Taiwan cuts mainland off, then their companies will crash; there's already companies like HiSilicon, Spreadtrum, etc. in the design sector and SMIC, Huahong, etc. in the fabrication sector waiting in the wings ready to substitute their own products. There's also hundreds of labs at academic institutions with the equipment and the intellectual property to quickly form startups if market conditions are right (read, competitors exit the market).

What about ASML? I thought they call themselves the market leader.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

What about ASML? I thought they call themselves the market leader.

They are one of the leaders but most players are US, 2nd Japanese, then European. Also, European companies don't have a single country that has the complete supply chain.