What's new

Operation Barbarossa: The Biggest Military Adventure in History

A quick look at the invasion of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany in 33 facts:

1. The invasion of the Soviet Union was the most ambitious campaign of the Second World War, and yet Hitler believed that it could be won within three months with a fast, powerful blitzkrieg strike.

2. The campaign was launched with Fuhrer Directive 21. Signed on 18th of December 1940, it set out the intention to “crush Soviet Russia in one rapid campaign”.


3. In February 1941, British and American intelligence learned of the planned invasion of the USSR. Hoping to encourage Stalin to act against Hitler, they informed him of the plan. Stalin did not believe them, as he believed that Hitler would stick to the non-aggression pact the two countries had signed before the war.

4. The German navy was to play a part in the operation, blocking Soviet ships from breaking out of the Baltic Sea.

5. Ready for the invasion, the Germans mustered over 3 million soldiers in 152 divisions. This included 17 Panzer and 13 motorized divisions.


A burning village in Russia. Photo Credit
6. Transport was provided by 625,000 horses and 600,000 motor vehicles.

7. The initial invasion force included 3,350 tanks, 7,146 artillery pieces, and 1,950 aircraft.

8. The Finnish army also took part in the invasion. They supplied 17 divisions and 2 brigades. Following the Soviet invasion of Finland earlier in the war, they were eager for revenge.

9. Romania also contributed to the army, with 14 divisions, 7 brigades and one reinforced panzer regiment.

10. The German ambassador in Moscow delivered a declaration of war at 0530 on 22 June 1941, citing Soviet violations of their pact as the excuse for invasion.

11. The frontier across which the Germans invaded ran from the Baltic to the Black Sea, a distance of 1,900 miles.

12. They were divided into three army groups – Army Group South under Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, Army Group North under Field Marshal Wilhelm von Leeb, and Army Group Centre under Field Marshal Fedor von Bock.

13. The invasion was named Operation Barbarossa after the founder of the 12th century First German Reich.

Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-099-19_Russland_Angriff_auf_ein_Dorf-432x640.jpg

German soldiers in the Soviet Union, June 1941.
14. Only 20% of the invading forces could conduct the sort of rapid mobile warfare Operation Barbarossa relied on – the rest were too slow-moving to keep up with the rapid pace of blitzkrieg.

15. Stalin was so shocked by the invasion that it was said he did not speak for eleven days.

16. The Soviets had two to three times as many tanks and planes as the Germans, but many of the planes were obsolete.



T-34 Tanks heading towards the front.
17. Among the Russian tanks was the T-34, arguably the best tank of any fielded in the Second World War.

18. At the time of the invasion, the Soviets had 150 divisions in their western territory, able to immediately turn and face the Germans.

19. After two weeks, successful battles on the frontiers led the Nazi command to believe that the campaign was already won, the Soviet forces crumbling.


20. The speedy initial advance allowed the Germans to take in the summer harvest from most of Ukraine, bolstering their food supply and badly depriving the Soviets.

21. The Germans surrounded several Soviet armies, forcing them to surrender. Those cut off at Minsk and Smolensk alone led to nearly 600,000 soldiers becoming prisoners of war. A further 665,000 prisoners were taken at Kiev.

22. By the end of July, just over a month into the invasion, they had seized a chunk of the Soviet Union more than twice the size of France.


German soldiers marching through a village in Russia.
23. By mid-August, 200 more Soviet divisions had joined the fray, massively outnumbering the Germans.

24. The Soviets struggled with military leadership, as Stalin had purged the Red Army in the 1930s, getting rid of supposedly anti-Communist officers, and killing many of the best generals in the process.


25. In the Baltic states and parts of Belorussia and Ukraine, the Germans were welcomed as liberators throwing out the Russian Communist oppressors.

26. In Kiev, the Jews welcomed the Nazis. The Germans had treated Kiev’s Jews well during the First World War, and the horrors of the death camps had not yet been revealed. But a terrible shock followed within days, as 100,000 Jews were led out of the city and massacred at the Babi Yar ravine.

27. To keep the war effort going, Stalin had entire factories moved eastwards so that they could keep on manufacturing aircraft, tanks, and other equipment.


British Mk III ‘Valentine’ destroyed in Soviet Union, January 1944.
28. Eager to keep Hitler occupied in the east, Britain and America both quickly began providing the Soviets with materials. They helped to build up the military machine that they, in turn, would face off against a decade later – a recurring theme in 20th-century wars.

29. From the 10th of July to the 16th of August, the Finnish army re-took the land they had lost to the Soviets. The German-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had enabled these Soviet conquests, but it was the Germans whose invasion allowed the Finns to retake their lost territory. They stopped at the old border, refusing to join the Germans in their invasion of Russia, but their presence helped to cut off Leningrad from the north.

30. The Siege of Leningrad, one of the most important engagements of the invasion, lasted 900 days. During that time, 200,000 civilians were killed by German bombardment. At least another 630,000 died from the disease and starvation that are constant threats for the targets of any siege.


Antiaircraft guns guarding the sky of Leningrad, in front of St. Isaac’s Cathedral.
31. With the fall of Vyazma and Bryansk in October, the Russians were left with only 824 tanks and no air support on the front.

32. When foreign diplomats were evacuated from Moscow in preparation for a siege, the embalmed body of former Soviet leader Lenin went with them. His loss was considered too terrible a propaganda blow for the Soviets to risk leaving him there.

33. The winter that halted the German advance was the coldest for 140 years. Oil froze in the engines of tanks. The grease used to pack artillery froze. Almost everyone in the German army suffered from frostbite. The same problems that had stopped the Soviets in Finland now saved them.


@The SC
Hitler expected to win before winter!
 
.
Stalingrad tells us that it is not wise to reduce thousands of buildings and structures to rubble in a city - if the plan is to occupy it afterwards - because a huge amount of rubble will block a large number of routes and affect progress on the ground. Defenders may find ample time to take advantage of such obstructions.

It is better to:

1. Surround the city and starve it, before moving in.

OR

2. Move in swiftly and occupy important parts of the city in a span of few hours in the cover of darkness, routing defenders from those locations and forcing the remainder to fight you on your terms afterwards. American THUNDER RUN strategy in short. Encirclement of the city on top of this strategy, guarantees surrender of defenders in short order.
 
Last edited:
.
Interesting article on the topic. Well worth the read. @Psychic @Nilgiri @The Sandman @AUSTERLITZ

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n6p38_bishop.html

A Thoughtful Look at the German-Soviet
Clash Reassesses the Second World War


Could Hitler Have Won?

  • Hitler's Panzers East: World War II Reinterpreted, by Russell H.S. Stolfi. University of Oklahoma Press, 1991. Hardcover. 280 pages. Photographs. Maps. Notes. Bibliography. Index.
Reviewed by Joseph Bishop

How close did Hitler come to winning World War II? What was the real turning point in the war, and why? In this pathbreaking revisionist study, Professor Stolfi provides some startling answers to these questions.


Prof. Stolfi

If Hitler had played his cards just a bit differently, contends the author -- a professor of Modern European History at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California -- he could have won the war. German forces came very close to defeating the Soviet Union in 1941. Because Britain alone posed no mortal threat to German power, the defeat of Soviet Russia would effectively have ended the war, resulting in German hegemony over all of Europe. The result would have been a drastic change in the course of world history.

When Americans think of the Second World War, it is understandably most often in terms of the United States role, such as in the D-Day invasion or the war in the Pacific against Japan. Often overlooked or improperly appreciated is the Russo-German conflict, even though it was on the eastern front that most of the fighting took place, and where the war was really decided. The war's greatest land battles were waged in the east, dwarfing those on other fronts. Three out of five German divisions were destroyed by Soviet forces. By the time American troops landed in France in the June 1944 D-Day invasion -- less then a year before the end of the war -- the outcome had already been determined.



Treacherous Surprise Attack?

According to the generally-accepted view of this chapter of history, Hitler's June 22, 1941, "Barbarossa" strike against the Soviet Union was a treacherous surprise attack against a peaceable and fearful neighbor. This view ("proven" at the Nuremberg Tribunal) holds that an insatiably imperialistic Hitler struck against Soviet Russia as part of his mad effort to "conquer the world."

The truth, Stolfi establishes, is quite different. A mass of evidence, including recently uncovered documents from Russian archives, shows instead that the massive Soviet forces encountered by the German invaders right on the western border areas were poised for their own imminent offensive. Writes Stolfi (p. 204):

Hitler seems barely to have beaten Stalin to the punch ... Recently, published evidence and particularly effective arguments show that Stalin began a massive deployment of Soviet forces to the western frontier early in June 1941. The evidence supports a view that Stalin intended to use the forces concentrated in the west as quickly as possible -- probably about mid-July 1941 -- for a Soviet Barbarossa. Statements of Soviet prisoners also support a view that the Soviets intended an attack on Germany in 1941. The extraordinary deployment of the Soviet forces on the western frontier is best explained as an offensive deployment for an attack without full mobilization by extremely powerful forces massed there for that purpose.


By mid-June 1941, Stalin had concentrated enormous Red-Army forces on the western Soviet border, poised for a devastating attack against Europe. This diagram appeared in the English language edition of the German wartime illustrated magazine Signal.

Stolfi's view is consistent with the detailed revisionist study by Russian historian Victor Suvorov (Vladimir Rezun), Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War, as well as research by several German historians.



Hitler's 'Greatest Blunder'?

Hitler's "many detractors," writes Stolfi (p. 207), often point to his decision to invade Soviet Russia as his greatest blunder. Stolfi emphatically disagrees (pp. 206, 208):

The decision to attack the Soviet Union was the correct decision for Germany in July 1940, for whether or not Britain was defeated in the autumn of 1940, Russia would have to be attacked in the campaign season of 1941 ... Hitler made the correct decision at the right time to attack the Soviet Union as early as practicable in 1941. It was the most significant move in his political career. Making that decision in July 1940, he gave Germany a clear chance to win the Second World War in Europe.

As history is revised in accord with the facts, Hitler the insane aggressor becomes Hitler the defender of Germany and Europe, who carried out a preemptive strike against a real aggressor, Stalin, to save his homeland and the West from Soviet tyranny.



Catastrophic Miscalculation?

Other widely-accepted views hold that Hitler, in launching his attack against Russia, grossly underestimated Soviet military capabilities while at the same time overestimating his own, that exhausted German military forces suffered a logistical breakdown within months of the attack, and that road, terrain, and weather conditions precluded a German victory. Stolfi persuasively refutes such explanations as the assumptions of convenient historical hindsight ("it happened that way because it could not have happened any other way").


On a 1900-mile front stretching from the Arctic Circle to the Black Sea, German and allied troops fought Soviet forces in the greatest clash of arms in history. As this map shows, German forces were brought to a halt just outside Moscow in December 1941. Hitler's objective was a line stretching from Archangel to Astrakhan.

German planners, he argues, accurately anticipated both the military strength of their Soviet adversaries, as well as the adverse campaigning conditions. German forces were trained and prepared for precisely the campaign that unfolded, and consequently not only kept to their timetable objectives but in many cases exceeded them. Germany's panzer and motorized formations, along with her hard-marching infantry troops, rapidly traversed the primitive roads and terrain with no undue difficulties.

Within just a few weeks after launching "Barbarossa," German forces had succeeded in capturing or destroying eight of nine Soviet field armies, and had essentially shattered the vast Soviet forces facing "Army Group Center." By July 3, 1941 -- just eleven days after launching the Barbarossa attack -- the Soviets had lost 935,000 men (killed, wounded or captured), whereas Germans losses were just 54,892.

Germany's military formations and materiel were still relatively intact in mid-August, and her engineers were rapidly adapting the Soviet rail network to conform with the European gauge width. Meanwhile, Moscow's defenses were still chaotic and disorganized. Almost to a man Germany's officer corps and higher level military leaders were confident that they would soon capture Moscow in a final advance, and win the war in Russia. Even many Russians shared this view. Extensive interrogations of captured Russian officers and troops revealed a widespread belief that the Germans would definitely take Moscow after one more great battle.

Logistically and psychologically, contends Stolfi, German forces were more than adequately poised for a final, successful drive against Moscow -- which was the hub of the Soviet Union's road and rail communications system as well as by far the most important Soviet industrial center. Even taking into account the weather conditions, Stolfi convincingly posits that German forces could have reached their Moscow objective, and even beyond -- before the onset of the rain and mud season in mid-to-late October.



A Fatal Decision

What went wrong? Stolfi points to Hitler's momentous decision in mid-August to divert German forces southward. Overruling objections from several of his generals, Hitler ordered Army Group Center to veer south to first strike into Ukraine and Crimea, smashing the remaining Soviet forces there and capturing major economic and strategic objectives, before resuming the drive on Moscow.


The advance into Soviet Russia, June 22 to September 30, 1941.

This move, Stolfi asserts, fatally delayed the German offensive and enabled the Soviet forces before Moscow to regroup and strengthen the capital's defenses. When the Germans resumed the advance against Moscow in early October, they achieved great initial victories, but were also forced to contend with the debilitating autumn rain and mud, as well as shorter daylight hours for campaigning. In early December the German offensive ground to a halt in the Moscow suburbs.

Hitler's decision in August 1941 to strike south before continuing the drive east, Stolfi believes, was the critically fatal decision of the war. This, and not the later, "anti-climactic" battles of Stalingrad, Alamein, or Kursk, was the war's real turning point. "...The German failure to seize Moscow in August 1941," he writes (p. 202), "was the turning point in the Russian campaign. After that, the Germans faced certain defeat in the Second World War, an outcome that altered fundamentally the course of events in this century."

As impressive as they are, Stolfi's arguments for this thesis are inconclusive. If Moscow had fallen, would Stalin and the Soviet leadership really have lost popular credibility and authority? Would the Soviet people and troops have become too demoralized to carry on, leading to general military collapse?

Because the nature of the Soviet system and its military was dramatically different than that of Germany's earlier adversaries, the loss of the capital may not have been as critical as Stolfi contends. Moscow's fall may not have rendered untenable the strategic position of the strong Soviet forces still fighting in Ukraine or the Leningrad region. A continued German drive eastward might have dangerously exposed the flanks of Army Group Center to crippling attacks from the still formidable Soviet forces in the north and south. Hitler himself believed that Moscow's capture would not have ended Soviet resistance, but would only have meant a continuation of the war further east or south.



Strategic Considerations

Because he did not believe that his generals understood Germany's immense economic and strategic requirements, or the critical economic and strategic importance of the eastern campaign, Hitler rejected their pleas to push on to Moscow in August 1941.


During a visit with some of his Eastern front troops early in the "Barbarossa" campaign, Hitler pauses to speak with a soldier in a back row. Unlike Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill, the German leader quite frequently visited his front-line troops.

In this southward drive German forces seized Ukraine, the Donetz basin, and the Crimea, destroying or capturing immense Soviet forces. Added to the earlier captures of Belarus (White Russia), the Baltic lands, and most of European Russia, these new gains denied to the Soviet opponent much of its huge population base as well as a large portion of its resources and industry. These gains deprived the Soviet colossus of a great deal of its ability to mobilize troops and materiel for war, while at the same time greatly strengthening Germany's economic base and war-making ability.

As it was, Germany's capture and occupation for several years of vast Soviet territories, with their enormous economic resources, did indeed enable her to resist the Soviet colossus for much longer than many expected. These victories also provided Germany with at least the possibility of victory. In Hitler's War (London: Focal Point, 1991; pp. 404-405), historian David Irving explains the German leader's reasoning:

It was most urgent in his [Hitler's] view to deprive Stalin of his raw materials and arms industry. Besides, a rapid advance southward would encourage Iran to resist the Anglo-Russian invasion which he already knew was in the cards; in any case, he wanted the Crimea in German hands: it was from Crimean airfields that Russian bombers had recently attacked Romania ... The army high command continued stubbornly with its plans to attack Moscow. Only later was it realized that Hitler's strategy would have offered the better prospects ... "Today I still believe," Göring was to tell his captors, "that had Hitler's original plan of genius not been diluted like that, the eastern campaign would have been decided by early 1942 at the latest."



Other Imponderables

Not discussed in Stolfi's study are additional indeterminate factors, such as the arrival several weeks earlier than usual of the Russian winter of 1941-42, a winter that was possibly also the harshest in several decades. Further imponderables include the reaction of Britain and the United States to the fall of Moscow. We simply do not know whether the fall of the Soviet capital would have moved Britain finally to acknowledge German hegemony on the continent and bring her to the negotiating table, or induce the United States to discontinue military aid to Soviet Russia.

Nor does Stolfi deal with the impact of the massive and rapidly increasing American economic and military aid to the Soviet Union, or its possible effect on the Soviet ability to wage war if the Germans captured Moscow.

As it was, the deliveries of US military supplies already in 1941 may have given the Soviets a psychological and material boost sufficient to insure their survival in late 1941.



Historical 'What Ifs'

Stolfi convincingly demonstrates that the German forces had the capability to at least capture Moscow within this time frame. What will always remain unknown is whether the fall of that city would have automatically led to the collapse of the other fighting fronts in Russia and a German victory, or would merely have been the capture of another major Soviet city in a continuing war.

However fascinating, historical "what ifs" such as Stolfi's can be misleading. In contrast to his provocative thesis, consider this possible scenario: Hitler seizes Moscow in September 1941, but his victorious Army Group Center is threatened with encirclement by the vast remaining Soviet forces deployed in the north and especially the south, striking pincer-like at its flanks. To avoid a catastrophic encirclement, Hitler is forced to withdraw and relinquish Moscow -- and a 1941 victory over the Soviet Union eludes him. Decades later, historians assail Hitler's decision to take Moscow directly, arguing that if only he had struck south first, destroying the large Soviet forces there, and seizing the economic wealth of that region, before striking against Moscow, he would have won the campaign and the war.



'Siege Mentality'

Stolfi contends that Hitler made decisions in keeping with a "siege mentality" based on Germany's harrowing First World War experience of geographic encirclement and economic strangulation. Hitler was acutely conscious of the severe limits to his nation's natural resources and its disadvantageous geographical place in the world. He thus made military decisions with thoughtful regard for these paramount economic and territorial considerations. Hitler, writes Stolfi (p. 211), "was a popular dictator, extraordinarily concerned about his personal popularity and the potential strain on it from the economic rigors of war. He was an uncompromising idealist who saw Germany secure as a great power only by the acquisition of enough contiguous space to ensure economic autarky [self-sufficiency]."


Seemingly endless columns of Soviet troops captured in the great military victories during the first months of Germany's "Barbarossa" offensive are marched to internment camps behind the lines.

In this regard Stolfi cites (p. 221) Hitler's "Operation Barbarossa" directive of December 18, 1940. "The final objective of the operation," Hitler ordered, "is to erect a barrier against Asiatic Russia on the general line Volga-Archangel [Arkhangelsk]," essentially "a line from which the Russian air force can no longer attack German territory." What these words show, comments Stolfi, "is Hitler's astoundingly conservative cast of mind, pivoting around a Germany-under-siege mentality."

While Hitler stated his intention "to crush Soviet Russia in a rapid campaign," and anticipated a quick Russian campaign that would be concluded by the late summer or fall of 1941, he also foresaw German rule clearly limited to the territory west of the Volga river, apparently accepting a residual Soviet regime to the east. Hitler envisioned a mighty, economically self-sufficient European "fortress," under Germany hegemony, that would be able permanently to withstand a siege by residual Soviet, British, or American forces.

As further evidence of this mentality, Stolfi cites (p. 222) Hitler's words at a high-level conference on November 29, 1941 -- that is, at a moment when Moscow seemed ready to fall: "If we accomplish our European missions, our historical evolution can be successful. Then in the defense of our heritage, we will be able to take advantage of the triumph of our defense over the tank to defend ourselves against all attackers." To help insure a successful defense of this projected eastern barrier, at this meeting Hitler ordered a shift in production toward antitank weapons over tanks. Hitler's words at this conference, Stolfi comments (p. 222), "reveal an outlook one can characterize as concerned and cautious, representing siege thinking."

Stolfi rejects the conventional propaganda image of Hitler as a largely incompetent dictator driven by hysterical hate and limitless lust for conquest. Actually, the author shows, this "concerned and cautious" leader acted with intelligence and reason, giving thoughtful consideration to economic objectives and the capture of strategic areas to insure his nation's survival. It was the often cautious Hitler who had to restrain his generals, and not the reverse.



Sense of Urgency

The author contrasts this "siege thinking" with another aspect of Hitler's temperament -- a remarkable sense of urgency. Stolfi stresses (pp. 205-206, 203-204):

Hitler's political forcefulness and sense of timing to get things done quickly to reach his foreign policy goals were important elements in the remarkable string of foreign policy and war successes from 1935 to 1940.

... Hitler cannot be faulted for lack of forcefulness or pace in his foreign policy; rather, he was a paragon of concentration, force, and speed. While making his foreign policy decisions he was assailed by fears, doubts, and procrastination, but he always overcame them. He impressed his decisive will on his foreign policy opponents from 1935 to August 1939 and achieved every goal without recourse to war... When Hitler reached his greatest decision [to attack Soviet Russia], it was with the same forcefulness and sense of urgency that characterized the past.

Hitler's Blitzaussenpolitik [lightning swift foreign policy] advances and apparent lightning wars complemented one another ... Regarding his decision to attack the Soviet Union, one marvels at the consistency of pattern, the fanatical sense of urgency, and the sensitivity of the policy to time ... Hitler must be seen as attacking the Soviets to achieve the National Socialist Weltanschauung (world view) and end the war in Europe by seizing European Russia and smashing Soviet communism.





Other Possible Turning Points
Unlike Stolfi, some historians maintain that Germany could still have won the war in the East in 1942 or even as late as mid-1943. Some scholars point to the German defeat at Stalingrad (February 2, 1943) as the war's turning point, at least psychologically. Yet even as late as July 1943 Germany was still able to seize the strategic initiative in launching the "Operation Citadel" offensive at Kursk-Orel, a clash that was to prove the greatest tank battle in history.

In Scorched Earth (London: 1970), historian Paul Carell contends that a German military victory against the Soviet Union was still possible as late as the summer of 1943. German forces, he argues, could have prevailed at Kursk, thus retaining the strategic initiative to pursue further victories, but were disengaged prematurely. Carell explains (pp. 87-95):

Just as Waterloo sealed the fate of Napoleon in 1815, putting an end to his rule and changing the face of Europe, so the Russian victory at Kursk heralded a turning-point in the war and led directly, two years later, to the fall of Hitler and the defeat of Germany, and thus changed the shape of the entire world. Seen in this light, Operation Citadel was the decisive battle of the Second World War.



Dispelling Propaganda Myths

Russian women are pressed into service digging anti-tank trenches outside Moscow as part of the effort to defend the Soviet capital against approaching German forces, summer 1941.

Hitler's Panzers East is a solid, well-referenced work with an excellent bibliography that makes good use of archival and interview sources. Written in a clear, dispassionate style, this balanced book is refreshingly free of the all-too-common gratuitous Hitler-bashing or Germanophobia. Unfortunately, numerous textual and date errors show that the manuscript was not carefully proofread. Brought out by a respected academic publisher, professor Stolfi's book has deservedly earned respect and acclaim. Military History (Oct. 1993) lauded it as "reasoned, intelligent and well-informed," and Publisher's Weekly called it "a credible reevaluation of the war." It received reserved commendation from the American Historical Review (June 1993).

While it focuses on the eastern campaign, Hitler's Panzers East is a useful antidote to the seemingly endless blizzard of polemical nonsense that often passes for reputable history about the Second World War. Stolfi deftly demolishes many common propaganda myths about Hitler and wartime Germany's military leadership, as well as widely accepted misconceptions about Soviet policy and intentions.

This book further serves to help discredit popular myths, especially widespread in the United States, based on propaganda "documentaries" and such slanted historical works as William Shirer's bestselling Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Finally, Hitler's Panzers East points up the yawning chasm between the popular Hollywood image of Hitler and the Third Reich, and the growing consensus of objective 20th-century historians. It is another revisionist milestone that shows how much progress has been made, and how much more work still needs to be done.

From The Journal of Historical Review, November/December 1995 (Vol. 15, No. 6), page 38-44.

About the Author

Joseph Bishop studied history and German at a South African university. Currently employed in a professional field, he resides in the Pacific Northwest with his wife and three children. An occasional contributor to a variety of periodicals, this is his first contribution to the Journal.
 
Last edited:
.
A Fatal Decision

What went wrong? Stolfi points to Hitler's momentous decision in mid-August to divert German forces southward. Overruling objections from several of his generals, Hitler ordered Army Group Center to veer south to first strike into Ukraine and Crimea, smashing the remaining Soviet forces there and capturing major economic and strategic objectives, before resuming the drive on Moscow.

Whoever was right in the end (and I simply think no one has the complete authority on who was right and who was wrong)....the fundamental dissonance is what did the Germans in.

I think even if we say Hitler has a more sound strategy (and thats really a debate too) to grab the resources across ukraine and then the caucusus, it was still a bad idea to withdraw Guderian and co from the inertia they had going into the belarussian/moscow plain. Russian forces were completely smashed in a number of salients there and the road was pretty open to inflict a decisive victory (at least up to the urals)

If you wanted the wheat, oil etc of the south, there should never have been a broader moscow target at all. Just keep focused on getting to the caucasus from the get go through Ukraine and Crimea and controlling the black sea with help of Romania + Bulgaria....and then push from there.

I think @Levina has mentioned this strategy before.

@AUSTERLITZ what is your comment on this article/author's analysis btw?
 
.
Taking moscow alone would have not done much had guderian's panzers not been diverted,the forces of the kiev encirclement would then be poised for an attack into the overextended underbelly of army group centre.Russia as it proved against napoleon wouldn't give up because one city fell.What hitler had to do what destroy soviet industrial capacity/manpower base/energy supply.
First the germans failed when the soviets successfully evacuated most of their heavy industry east to the urals,which luftwaffe bombers couldn't reach.This was massive turning point.
Germany as a nation never had enough manpower base to bleed out the russians ,even with blitz tactics and grand encirclements.The disparity was too high.To do this they would have to enlist western europe or russia's own disaffected anti-communist manpower on a mass scale.But except for few waffen ss units due to the forceful subjugation of europe wehrmacht couldn't get any military manpower outside germany and its axis allies.And racial theories against slavs meant russian native anti-communist factions were mistreated and never used until 1944.
Finally the energy supply hitler tried to disrupt in his great gamble in 1942,but that ended with stalingrad.
 
Last edited:
.
@Nilgiri
Whatever strategy we discuss or mistakes are pointed out in that operation, with Red Arm's Logistics intact and abundant supply of man power and material it was obviously a war of logistics from start.

The one who was capable to supply furnace of war endlessly was bound to win.

My two cents.
 
. .
75 years ago, my grandad took weapons and joined Yugoslav resistence movement against nazi/faschist, he was 20 years old, he was a member of elite "6 Licka divizija / 6 division from Lika", he parcitipated in battle of Drvar, when he face elite SS division from 500th SS parachute battalion, he earned highest medal from president Tito.

Thank you grandad, thank you for your deeds. You will not be forgotten!
 
.
75 years ago, my grandad took weapons and joined Yugoslav resistence movement against nazi/faschist, he was 20 years old, he was a member of elite "6 Licka divizija / 6 division from Lika", he parcitipated in battle of Drvar, when he face elite SS division from 500th SS parachute battalion, he earned highest medal from president Tito.

Thank you grandad, thank you for your deeds. You will not be forgotten!

Respect to your grandad! Partisans and resistance were a major factor in all theatres of war. Yugoslavs were tough folk no doubt about it, it was a hilly tough terrain with fierce organised resistance the invaders could never quell.

I sure wish you guys stayed together after Tito....very sad what happened after he left us.
 
.
This post is two days late (thought I'd wait till after Ramzan) but this past June 22nd was the 76th anniversary of Op. Barbarossa.


Also, great book. Expands upon the previous Icebreaker by the same author. Makes a strong case for why Hitler launched a hastily prepared attack on the Soviet Union despite the war with Britain still ongoing in the West.

518KbMSgtEL._SX348_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

@Nilgiri @Psychic @The Sandman
 
.
This post is two days late (thought I'd wait till after Ramzan) but this past June 22nd was the 76th anniversary of Op. Barbarossa.


Also, great book. Expands upon the previous Icebreaker by the same author. Makes a strong case for why Hitler launched a hastily prepared attack on the Soviet Union despite the war with Britain still ongoing in the West.

View attachment 406209

@Nilgiri @Psychic @The Sandman
Dammit i should've posted some pics in our Wehrmacht thread on 22 didn't even thought about that :/
i am also reading a book about a Wehrmacht soldier's experiences (it's the first time i am reading a book) on last 20-30 pages definitely gonna share it with you guys once i finish it you guys are gonna love it.
 
.
Dammit i should've posted some pics in our Wehrmacht thread on 22 didn't even thought about that :/
i am also reading a book about a Wehrmacht soldier's experiences (it's the first time i am reading a book) on last 20-30 pages definitely gonna share it with you guys once i finish it you guys are gonna love it.
In sha Allah. Zaroor share ker na. Btw what's the name of the book?

And yeah bro you and @Psychic and other members did a good job with that Wehrmacht Thread. Keep posting more pics.
 
.
Respect to your grandad! Partisans and resistance were a major factor in all theatres of war. Yugoslavs were tough folk no doubt about it, it was a hilly tough terrain with fierce organised resistance the invaders could never quell.

I sure wish you guys stayed together after Tito....very sad what happened after he left us.

Thank you very much, brother, yes we had some problems in 90s, my grandad didnt kill enough Croatian Ustasha faschist so they took power in Croatia in early 90s, when we add that piece of $hit Slobodan Milosevic and his pseudonationalist rethoric, it is not a surprise we failed in " War of the Yugoslav Succession".
 
Last edited:
.
Ever since Napoleon made warriors out of Prussians and Austrians, they had a fighter's mind. Not a logistical mind. And that was the downfall of Germans in Russia. Those over-stretched supply lines would've been a red light for even the most casual of logistical minds. But the fighting German mind went ahead with the plan.
 
.
Ever since Napoleon made warriors out of Prussians and Austrians, they had a fighter's mind. Not a logistical mind. And that was the downfall of Germans in Russia. Those over-stretched supply lines would've been a red light for even the most casual of logistical minds. But the fighting German mind went ahead with the plan.

A soldier must always follow the order given by his command to best of his ability....otherwise there are deeper problems afoot than logistics. So I dont think its an issue of german minds per se. The Germans did come darn close, hypotheticals are easy to make in 20/20 hindsight.

BTW the Germans have had their fair share of warriors before Napoleon came around. Holy Roman Empire definitely had its victorious moments in warfare...and equally crushing defeats. Augustus Caesar could probably tell you a thing or two about the Goths too....it just won't be a polite expression lets leave it at that. ;) ...but you needed to have some semblance of warrior spirit to take on the superpower of its day, win and haunt them on what happened (Rhine and Danube made boundaries) for the rest of their existence.
 
.

Latest posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom