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Only 52 trains operative, Senate told

Yes, I read it. they will take favor from us and then throw India out of Pakistan's market. Don't you remember they did the same with MFN thing :cheesy:

Pakistan could not increase her defence budget because of bad economy where most of the budget went in paying back the IMF debt left little for other things. If we help them to revive their economy, Pakistan will use the same boom against us.

Emotions mey meh to beh gaya tha , yaad hi nahi aaya ki this is Pakistani we are dealing with as a neibhour :hitwall:
 
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@KRAIT , @RISING SUN :- I think GOI should help Pakistan in rails department and for the return gift ask Pakistan government to open their economy to Indian companies .

Agar kisi ne history padhi ho to after the end of world war 2 ; Europe went bankrupt . Then USA gave the europeans heavy loans and other stuff in order to bring back their economy to a stable condition so that it could gain the trust of europeans and secondly it could find huge profits for the economy back home .

I guess we certainly lack economically thinking minds in this forum .

This history situation can never fit here and we are not rich. We can help a bit but not much. Most imp. Pakistan needs to help itself.

About your china point, in this case China is gaining only. It is not helping much Pakistan economy and people.
 
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It is the corrupt railway Minister & his corrupt team are the once who should be held responsible. They have completely destroyed Pakistan Railway.
 
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Greater connectivity depends on modern railways
The news that India is interested in creating a railway network with its South Asian neighbours has not received the kind of attention it should have. One reason may be that pious wishes like this do not take long to deflate like bubbles. Politicians often like to play to the gallery hardly ever following up their proposals even meriting serious considerations. Already the Indian Railways has arrangement for providing limited service to Nepal, Bangladesh and Pakistan. Apart from these three countries, three other countries -Bhutan, Myanmar and Afghanistan in the region stand to be part of any such scheme. The advantage of Bhutan's geographical proximity certainly makes it the number of candidate but for Myanmar and Afghanistan to form the basis of the network, Bangladesh and Pakistan's active cooperation is most essential. However the proposed Trans-Asian Railway can be a better option, so far as connectivity with the Central Asia in the north-west and East Asia in the east is concerned.

This does not in any way lessen the significance of an effective inter-regional railway network among the countries of the region. Modelled after the European railway links between and among nations of Europe starting from France to Britain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and other countries, such a rail network can bring people closer to each other. That is a prerequisite for burying the mistrust, misunderstanding and even antagonism -the bitter fruits of narrow and partisan politics in this part of the world. Geo-strategic and geo-cultural realities have traversed through centuries of history of power shifting not just in this subcontinent but also in areas where the old civilisation of Indo-China met the upstart civilisations of Europe at a confluence of religious diversity. Till the Mughal rule, religious confrontation was limited only at the level of the ruling class where the focus was mainly on the fabulous riches of India.

It is a fact that the once thriving part of an extended web of commercial and cultural interactions along what was known as the "Silk Route" now lies buried under the sands of history. The vast land-locked area of Central Asia and South Asia share a rich history of interaction dating back as far back as 1500 BC. Early migration of Indo-Aryans is thought to have taken place from Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. The colonial rule imposed a different kind of geopolitical space for peoples in the subcontinent and beyond along the Silk Route. With Afghanistan turning into a political hotbed during the Cold War era, the already fractious relations between India and Pakistan soured further as the two nations had to choose between the superpowers. The Americans used Pakistan as the last frontier to repulse the spread of communism.

Following the sudden collapse of the Soviet Union, the involuntary and unprepared independence of five former Soviet republics has given rise to realities yet to be fully comprehended by their people as well as India and Pakistan who are historically connected to them. It has necessitated permutation and combination of realignment in the strategies and identities of the states in the two regions. As an emerging economy and on the basis of its traditional good relations with the former Soviet Union, India is placed in an advantageous position to have better access to those five countries of the Central Asia. On the other hand, Pakistan depends on its common religion in its effort to have any mileage for pushing for space.

These two bitter rivals are however not the only contenders in making overtures for better access. China and East Asian nations are likely to exploit any commercial or Economic opportunity that might come their way. Then there is Russia, still their mentor with various interests. But in a globalised world, the contending parties have to settle for some arrangement that proves mutually beneficial. In fact, no one is going to bank heavily in on economic or commercial opportunities in the five broken-away central Asian states. What counts most is the reinventing the land route that might be of help in facilitating both people's travel and transportation of goods. A link between Asia and Europe will help reduce freight cost substantially.

East Asia's inclusion in the project is likely to provide further impetus to the connectivity. On that score, modernizing railways in the South Asian countries make sense. To get effectively connected with the Trans-Asian Railways, there is no alternative to developing the railway service. Like India and Pakistan, Bangladesh also needs to recalibrate the fundamentals of its relations with both the Central Asia and East Asia. Once there had been an attempt to drum up the slogan of opening the window of opportunity to the east before it became muted. But it is a reality that this country will have to realign its economic and commercial interests on the basis of infrastructural development. Railway is the prime area where investment and development will ultimately pay in spade.

It cannot be done overnight. A long-term plan has to be undertaken for development and modernisation of the country's railway. A domestically integrated railway will help the country's connectivity with any future Asian scheme involving its link beyond the region. Bangladesh should start the process in right earnest. In this connection, the Indian cooperation will be an added advantage. Any such proposal involving regional interests, however, has to be mooted for official discussion and the sooner it is done the better for all concerned.
Financial Express :: Financial Newspaper of Bangladesh
 
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Pitch for South Asia rail network
Agra: India is likely to pitch for a freight and passenger rail link traversing Afghanistan, Pakistan, its own territory and Bangladesh at the CII Annual Partnership Summit tomorrow.

The plan may not receive the support of Pakistan, which has long objected to a trans-Asian rail and road network and had denied Indian truckers the rights to pass through its territory to Afghanistan.

Commerce minister Anand Sharma will hold talks with his counterparts from Bangladesh and Afghanistan, who are here for the three-day summit, which started today.

However, with Pakistan commerce minister Makh-doom Muhammad Amin Fahim giving the summit a miss, it needs to be seen how far the rail proposal can progress. Business leaders and ministers from 83 countries are attending the meet.

Sharma will also discuss developing regional energy infrastructure and connectivity grids. India, Nepal, Bhutan and Pakistan together are estimated to have hydro-power potential of more than 200 gigawatt, three-fourth of which is yet to be harnessed.

New Delhi plans to invest more than $1 trillion in infrastructure over the next five years.

Sharma will discuss with delegates steps to make trade and cross-border investment flows easier.

He said India would try to conclude the comprehensive free trade agreement (FTA) with the European Union (EU) soon.

“We are negotiating a large number of free trade agreements with a number of countries. The Bilateral Trade and Investment Agreement with the EU is just on the verge of completion,” he said.

India and the EU, its biggest trading partner, are in talks since 2007 to liberalise trade in goods, services and investment. The FTA will involve the slashing of duties on over 90 per cent of the tradable items and opening up of the markets for services and investment.

The two sides had agreed to conclude the negotiations within 2011. However, difference arose on key issues such as the opening up of markets in auto and auto components, wines and spirits, and intellectual property.

Sharma said the global economic situation was fragile and the world faced a heightened risk of going into a double-dip recession.

“Latest projections indicate that this year, the growth will be weak at 3.5 per cent, almost at the same level as last year (3.2 per cent),” he said.

Sharma said India’s GDP growth was set to accelerate with the share of manufacturing going up to 26 per cent from 16 per cent in the next 10 years.

The minister said the government had approved 12 national manufacturing and investment zones. The national manufacturing policy provides for NMIZs. NMIZs will be mega industrial zones with world-class infrastructure.
Pitch for South Asia rail network
 
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Caravan travels across Khyber Pass (1921)
A caravan of camels travels across Khyber Pass. The picture was taken for National Geographic by photographer Haji Mirza Hussain in 1921.

The mountain pass that connects the modern Pakistan and Afghanistan is at an altitude of about 1,000 meters and was an integral part of the ancient Silk Road. It is one of the oldest known passes in the world and a key trade route connecting Central Asia and South Asia. For centuries, Afridi and Shinwari tribesmen that live in the area levied a toll on the passing merchants.

The British built a railway through the pass after World War 1. The track from Jamrud to Landi Kotal was completed in 1925, about four years after this picture was taken. During World War II, the British installed tank obstacles on the valley floor.

During the 1960s and 1970s, the pass became popular among Western tourists because it fell on the route to India known as the Hippie Trail.
Photo Archive: Caravan travels across Khyber Pass (1921) by Vintage collection
 
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India and the Silk Road Not Taken
For India, Central Asia has been a squandered opportunity for twenty years. There is still time for India to play a significant and mutually positive role in Central Asian affairs, but it will require a much more muscular and coordinated effort from India’s foreign policy establishment, business leaders and military strategists.

An invigorated and engaged India augurs a more benign geostrategic partnership for economic and political development in Central Asia than China, Pakistan, Iran or Russia. And conversely, Central Asia provides multi-ethnic and democratic India, still reticent to promote itself as a model to anyone, a platform on which India can further build out its own legitimate economic, military and geopolitical interests. India is a natural accomplice to help fulfill the ambition of countries like Kazakhstan to further diversify their dependence on a number of big global powers, to provide greater employment by developing industries outside energy, and because of geography, to foster specific economic strategies, such as becoming a major logistics hub between Asia and Europe.

India’s recent interaction with Central Asia underscores this potential. In congressional testimony this past July, Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake surprised his audience by praising Turkmenistan for sending humanitarian aid to Afghanistan to garner goodwill in the buildup of Turkmenistan’s prospective rail and energy links through Afghanistan to India and Pakistan (and possibly Bangladesh, too). This planned Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) gas pipeline illustrates how India can take a leadership role in not only helping to tie Central Asia closer to India but to lash it with the greater South Asia subcontinent, and encourage Central Asian countries, even paleo-isolationist havens like Turkmenistan, to shoulder a larger role in regional economic development.

Because many of the Central Asian footpaths to India literally go through Afghanistan and Pakistan, closer ties between Central Asia and India hold out some hope for more cooperation-by-necessity between them, even if it’s far too little to induce a real rapprochement.

Uzbekistan has encouraged India to put down stakes in its energy development, for example in the Karakal gas reserves. The Indian built Pul-e-Khumri transmission line from Beghlan to Kabul carries Uzbek-generated electricity—a boon to all sides. The Indian energy company GAIL Limited has signed a gas sale-and-purchase agreement during tripartite talks between Pakistan, Afghanistan and India in Islamabad; the outcome will mean a transit fee paid to Afghanistan for transmitting gas to Pakistan and India and the obligation for the Afghan government to protect the TAPI pipeline from terrorist attacks, pressing all three, at least in this one endeavor, into common cause just as the 2014 pullout from Afghanistan imperils Indian security interests—not only in Afghanistan but from the possibility of a new surge of anti-Indian militants infiltrating Kashmir.

An Underachieving Reboot

India has an interlocking history with the vast mountains and grasslands above Afghanistan, a connection never dissolved and sometimes nurtured. It is a long entwined narrative: from Babur marching down from Uzbekistan in the 16th century to found India’s spectacular Mughal dynasty; to Indian prime minister Jawaharial Nehru’s 1955 trip to the Soviet Union and Khrushchev's return visit to India that same fall, resulting in the Soviet Union’s support of Indian sovereignty over Kashmir and other disputed territories; and currently reflected in TAPI, the planned trans-Afghanistan natural gas pipeline originating in Turkmenistan and terminating in New Delhi.

During the Soviet period, India had a robust export trade to Central Asia and a productive cultural exchange that seeded the ardent popularity, sustained to this day, of Bollywood films and Natyashastra dance troupes. India sent large numbers of students to Soviet medical schools located in Central Asia—still a common practice. When the five Soviet Central Asia republics declared independence, India rushed to be one of the first nations to send ambassadors to freshly minted embassies.

At the onset of the 1990s, historical linkages informed an inchoate sense among Indian elites that Central Asia was both fertile ground and a rare opportunity for India to project soft power. Activist policy impulses also were catalyzed by concrete concerns that forging strong ties with Central Asia’s majority Muslim populations was an opportunity to gain important allies in its cold war with Pakistan. And there was an immediate awareness of the potential for Central Asia to provide significant energy resources for India’s thirsty, modernizing economy.

This initial burst of diplomatic engagement, however, did not translate into a sustained and meaningful encounter; instead, it illustrates how Indian foreign policy was hampered, and even sidelined by an overly cautious business and merchant class. Turkey, China, the United States, to some extent Russia and even South Korea cleared a path to Central Asian power centers with aggressive business deals: building factories, investing in new cellular networks, arranging arms sales, and big spending on major banking and infrastructure projects.

But in the 1990s, an Indian government liberalization program meant to decouple business from government oversight and control resulted in Indian industry receiving little incentive to look north, and Indian businesses for the most part did not recognize Central Asia as a promising market.
Indian foreign policy objectives and Indian industrial expansion had the potential to fuel the success of the other, but they moved at very different speeds.

No Empire to Stand On

India’s foreign direct investment inflows are far more important to its economy than its own investments outside the country. India's economic growth has severely slowed over the past year. Foreign direct investment into the country has dropped 43 percent during the first six months of 2012. Meanwhile, Indian-Central Asian bilateral trade topped off at a meager $500 million in 2011. During the same period, China surpassed the United States to become the number one global destination for foreign capital. At the same time, China has invested vast sums in far-flung regions. Investments in Africa have garnered a lot of media attention, but China has also invested an estimated $20 billion in its own backyard of Central Asia, and in the poorer Central Asia republics, like Tajikistan, Chinese loan packages have consumed staggering percentages of these nations’ total sovereign debt.

Chinese investments have been mainly concentrated on energy infrastructure projects, meaning pipelines. This serves Chinese energy security needs but also gives China tremendous diplomatic reach in a region that historically has viewed its giant neighbor with suspicion. “China’s policy of engagement has demonstrated a very pragmatic approach, emphasizing economic gains rather than the pursuit of political dominance. Beijing is, of course, seeking a strategic partnership which will guarantee it the support of Central Asian states when it needs that,” wrote Saule Mukhametrakhimova, Central Asia editor at the Institute for War and Peace Reporting.

In a region famous for its Great Game triangulations, where politicians are supposed to be expert in craftily balancing foreign powers against each other, the idea of offsetting Chinese investment with an Indian hedge would have been welcome. “We were blindsided by the speed in which China could move in,” said Neelam Deo, a former Indian ambassador and co-founder of Gateway House India, a leading foreign policy think tank in Mumbai. “The other thing that held us back is a kind of inertia. We looked to continue to piggyback on Russia in Central Asia, which clearly didn’t happen—instead both countries have lost ground in the region.”

“One problem with India is that the government doesn’t allocate enough diplomat resources as they should. Another is the private sector in India has kind of soured on the government right now. It’s also because Indian industry hasn’t yet looked beyond the US market and European markets,” said Deo.

Among Indian diplomats there is a confidence that China’s emerging dominance in Central Asia cannot hold, that in fact the Central Asian republics are poised to follow the recent trajectory as Myanmar, which they say was reaching out to India 10 years ago as a way to counterbalance its weakness and dependence as a client state to China.

South Korea’s business incursions in Central Asia chiefly relied on leveraging ties with the region’s ethnic-Korean populations—Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan in particular have large ethnic-Korean communities—but Turkey has made deep economic inroads into Central Asia with a state-driven policy of encouraging relationship-building on linguistic, religious and historical commonalities, aggressively locating traction for its investments in banking, telecommunications and construction. This is a strategy that once may have provided a way forward in Central Asia for India. But Central Asia’s political independence not only coincided with Turkey’s monumental economic expansion but also with Turkish AK Party’s neoimperial mission in Central Asia to midwife “its own sense of Ottoman Empire; India has never fit well with the Turkish model,” said Gateway House India’s Deo. “We never saw ourselves competing with Turkey, or with Iran for that matter. I think in the Indian establishment, the talk was more of being in Central Asia before Pakistan got in and spoiled things. We looked at it as an export market, but it was not really one that the private sector was interested in.”

Closer Military Ties

At the inaugural meeting in Kyrgyzstan last June of the India-Central Asia Dialogue, part of a halting India-driven process to finally speed up Indian economic integration into post-Soviet Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan), India inaugurated a program called “Connect Central Asia.” The program is meant to further interregional commerce and diplomacy by connecting universities in India and Central Asia, as well as health centers, high tech companies, and other commercial ventures, and, for good measure, to boost tourism, scientific research, and military and security efforts.

And in fact, India is set to increase its military footprint across Central Asia. Begun in 2011, India has forged military ties with Kyrgyzstan, providing training to the Kyrgyz Armed Forces inside India. Next year, India has scheduled several joint military exercises with Uzbekistan, where India worries anti-Indian Islamic radicalism is being incubated. Tajikistan is particularly important to India’s military strategy—the country has shared borders with Afghanistan and China, and New Delhi and Dushanbe both harbor concerns about metastasizing terrorism and narcotic trafficking in Afghanistan. Perhaps most significantly, Tajikistan is home to the Indian Air Force’s Farkhor Air Base, India’s only military base outside of India.

Closer military cooperation between India and Central Asia is welcome news to Europe and the United States, which can anticipate any such alliance putting pressure on China and Russia.
But if closer strategic cooperation opens the door to further interpersonal and business-to-business relationships between India and Central Asia, the result could resemble something along the lines of how India has introduced itself as a foreign policy factor in other places in the world, from Malaysia to East Africa: the export of India’s booming educated workers, a burgeoning diaspora of globalized professional talent. Pipelines are good for handcuffing countries together. But the export of human capital can turn locked wrists into something more like a tight grip.
Commentary: India and the Silk Road Not Taken | The National Interest
 
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Giving the details, the minister through a written reply said that 17 mail/ express trains, 16 intercity, six passenger, four mixed, three international and one Karachi shuttle were among the total number of passenger trains operative throughout Pakistan.

Which are these International train routes?
 
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So a nation with some 180 million has only 53 trains operational

Now what should we do
1 lease engines from india
2 buy engines from china,Iran
3 build more nukes & be proud that we have more nukes than train
We will transport people on nukes
 
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So a nation with some 180 million has only 53 trains operational

Now what should we do
1 lease engines from india
2 buy engines from china,Iran
3 build more nukes & be proud that we have more nukes than train
We will transport people on nukes

chuck the criminal looters out and then build more nukes and buy engines from china and license to build them in pakistan
 
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@KRAIT , @RISING SUN :- I think GOI should help Pakistan in rails department and for the return gift ask Pakistan government to open their economy to Indian companies .

Agar kisi ne history padhi ho to after the end of world war 2 ; Europe went bankrupt . Then USA gave the europeans heavy loans and other stuff in order to bring back their economy to a stable condition so that it could gain the trust of europeans and secondly it could find huge profits for the economy back home .

I guess we certainly lack economically thinking minds in this forum .

But the issue is Pakistan never every would like to take any help from India that would fasciliate their Raiway development...SO there is no point in discussing wheather India should offer or not...
 
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Looks like Pakistan situation is much more worst than I thought.....
 
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chuck the criminal looters out and then build more nukes and buy engines from china and license to build them in pakistan

No no. You dont need to buy engines or anything. Just build more nukes! ;)
 
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