The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[randomradio]

That was how Venezuela began her decline.

Its current 'major' economic problem is because of its overdependence on oil and massive social welfare programs. Nothing special there, it was expected when oil prices tanked. And this literally has nothing to do with the US.

 

[AndrewJin]

USA is not SOLO super power now

Of course, US and the 2012 supa powa.

 

[anon45]

No. It shows the claims that Philippines was a US puppet were likely true.


Edit: Are true

If the Philippines were a puppet Duterte would have never come to power, and if he had come to power he would never have been allowed to pursue the path he s pursuing.

Carrot and stick is basic diplomacy, hardly puppeteering, unless you now consider the Philippines a Chinese puppet given the carrot and stick diplomacy they have been pursuing?

The fall of US? Aint gonna happen dude. We will continue living in blissful ignorance with Mcdonalds, booze and steak here in the US. I dont know about you but that doesnt sound "The fall of American civilization" as you put it.

Guys hold on to your panties, we will not and will never abandon the Philippines. As a matter of fact we never left!!! Even after they kicked us out in Subic and Clark. It is after all our 52nd state then Cuba and so on and so forth...

@gambit , @anon45 have you bought your six pack yet? "The fall of American civilization" is about to happen!!!

View attachment 341757

Aren't we still in the dark ages after our massive financial collapse in May?

I wish I could be as hopeful that Relations with the Philippines would stay good, I don't see it. Duterte is too dead set on running cheeks spread and mouth open to China. I would legit not be surprised if we see Chinese ships basing from the Philippines in 5 years. Its the only real weapon he has against the US, though it would make the Philippines a military target in the event of general hostilities. Presumably that's what he wants, to cement the US as Filipino enemy number 1 and make people care less about the territory the Philippines is about to lose.

For China's part, they have an interest in keeping Duterte in power for as long as possible. I've said it before and i'll say it again, I'll be very surprised if he leaves at the end of his term.

 

[ahojunk]

Will merge with main thread after discussions.
========
Central, Eastern Europe key to Belt and Road Initiative: senior CPC official
2016-10-07 08:43 | Xinhua | Editor: Li Yan

​

Liu Yunshan, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee
of the Communist Party of China, addresses the China-CEE (Central and Eastern European)
Countries Political Parties Dialogue in Budapest, Hungary, Oct. 6, 2016. (Xinhua/Rao Aimin)​

Senior Communist Party of China (CPC) official Liu Yunshan said on Thursday that Central and Eastern Europe is a key region for building the Belt and Road Initiative and a priority area in China's external exchanges and cooperation.

Liu, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, made the comment when addressing the opening ceremony of the China-Central and Eastern European Countries (CEECs) Political Parties Dialogue, the first of its kind within the China-CEECs cooperation mechanism, dubbed as the 16+1 framework.

"The Belt and Road Initiative, proposed by Chinese President Xi Jinping and advocated by the Chinese government, is a major move for China's opening-up on all fronts, fits in line with the theme of peace and development, and accords with the internal need of all countries to accelerate development. It will present more development opportunities to the world and open up more space for coordinated development of China and CEECs," Liu said.

Over the past three years, the Belt and Road Initiative has increasingly become a new driver of global economic recovery, a new bond for exchanges between Asian and European civilizations and a new platform for improving global governance, he said.

"It has been proved that jointly building the Belt and Road Initiative helps boost prosperity and regional economic cooperation among countries along the Belt and Road, enhance exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations and promote world peace and development," Liu said.

He called on China and CEECs to respect each other, enhance political mutual trust, maintain close high-level exchanges, implement consultation and dialogue mechanisms and consolidate traditional friendship to lay a solid political groundwork for deepening consultation.

Liu urged both sides to pursue win-win outcomes and synergize development strategies by promoting policy coordination, facilities connectivity, unimpeded trade, financial integration and people-to-people ties, bringing about a new win-win situation featuring aligned development, mutually reinforcing growth and integrated interests.

He said both sides need to focus on major projects in priority areas of infrastructure connectivity, industrial cooperation, materializing some key projects at a faster pace to bring more tangible benefits to all countries, adding that people-to-people and cultural exchanges and friendship among the people should be strengthened.

Political parties in China and the CEECs enjoy a long history of interaction and it is their shared responsibility to make good use of the "16+1" cooperation platform and advance the Belt and Road Initiative to release the potential for cooperation, Liu said.

Political parties should shoulder the responsibility of strengthening political guidance and consolidating strategic mutual trust, conduct candid dialogue on major issues concerning the Belt and Road Initiative and the "16+1" cooperation and translate the political dialogue outcomes into government policies, Liu said.

"We should build consensus among political parties and coordinate operations, focus on common interests and resolve differences and disputes through dialogue and consultation," Liu said, adding that political parties have the responsibility of increasing understanding between the peoples and translating cooperation vision into tangible benefits to the peoples.

The CEECs leaders, including Viktor Orban, president of Fidesz-Hungarian Civic Alliance and Prime Minister of Hungary, Vojtech Filip, leader of the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia and vice president of the Chamber of Deputies of the Czech Republic, thanked the CPC for creating the dialogue platform for political parties to discuss development strategy, overcoming ideological and geographical differences.

The Belt and Road Initiative is a grand peaceful proposal to promote cooperation and win-win development. The initiative, rooted in China's profound philosophy and culture and love for peace, will guide the Europe-China relations for the coming decades and enable both sides to contribute to world peace, security and development, the CEECs representatives said.

They said political parties in the CEECs were delighted to engage in building the Belt and Road Initiative and are willing to work with the CPC to play a politically guiding role to lead the think tanks, civil organizations and the public to implement the initiative and make efforts for the peace and prosperity of China, the CEECs as well as the world.

Liu arrived in Budapest earlier Wednesday for a two-day official good-will visit to Hungary. Liu is taking on an Asia-Europe tour, which took him to Mongolia and Greece ahead of Budapest.

 

[Cossack25A1]

But again, are the gains in getting the Philippines outweighs the burdens of keeping that vassal state in line ?

If China turns the Philippines into its vassal state, there won't be much of a change, except that some of the players will be swapped - if now the rebellion involves Maoist communist, in a China-vassal Philippines (which would likely have a government that is in line with Chinese ideology or Chinese standards), it would instead have a right-wing, anti-China armed movement, and the CCP will, in some ways, intervene in the form of arms shipment support to the China-friendly PH government.

I wish I could be as hopeful that Relations with the Philippines would stay good, I don't see it. Duterte is too dead set on running cheeks spread and mouth open to China. I would legit not be surprised if we see Chinese ships basing from the Philippines in 5 years. Its the only real weapon he has against the US, though it would make the Philippines a military target in the event of general hostilities. Presumably that's what he wants, to cement the US as Filipino enemy number 1 and make people care less about the territory the Philippines is about to lose.

For China's part, they have an interest in keeping Duterte in power for as long as possible. I've said it before and i'll say it again, I'll be very surprised if he leaves at the end of his term.

Make it less than 5 years, since there is a very high-probability that if EDCA and VFA are officially and permanently suspended, the PH military may end up having war games with the PLA, which would be very ironic.
And yes, I am already expecting the PDF China Battalion, a German, some Singaporeans, some Indonesians and Pakistanis to attack me verbally and tell that I should be hanged for treason.

 

[Mugwop]

Bir sir problem is usa don't want to give them democracy as they don't have oil or enough gold or they aren't fighting against world banks like Qaddafi try to did and second most they are neighbour of China and they know they will make Philippines another Vietnam for Americans

They can help America encircle China,That's what it's all about

 

[X-2.]

They can help America encircle China,That's what it's all about

Yep if they do so like Japan ...

 

[S10]

I actually think JF-17 is well suited for Philippines if relationship wasn't so strained. They could buy it with a loan from China. It's affordable and capable enough for what they need, mainly counter-insurgency.

 

[gambit]

Its current 'major' economic problem is because of its overdependence on oil and massive social welfare programs. Nothing special there, it was expected when oil prices tanked. And this literally has nothing to do with the US.

Of course we had nothing to do with it. Socialism taken to its natural conclusion -- communism -- have always ended up a disaster.

 

[randomradio]

Of course we had nothing to do with it. Socialism taken to its natural conclusion -- communism -- have always ended up a disaster.

It has more to do with lack of vision than socialism.

India's policies were all socialist for decades, a lot of them still are. All the policies made were very sound and had vision, but the govt failed in its implementation. It was the other way round for Venezuela, their policies were not visionary, but they made that up with implementation of whatever policies they could make. Had they diversified, they would have been a major economic powerhouse by now.

During their heyday their national revenue was equal to that of the Saudis. So their predicament has less to do with socialism and more to do with gross mismanagement of the economy.

Unfortunately, you are a victim of your govt's propaganda. So I would recommend reading less biased views.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

 

[gambit]

It has more to do with lack of vision than socialism.

India's policies were all socialist for decades, a lot of them still are. All the policies made were very sound and had vision, but the govt failed in its implementation. It was the other way round for Venezuela, their policies were not visionary, but they made that up with implementation of whatever policies they could make. Had they diversified, they would have been a major economic powerhouse by now.

During their heyday their national revenue was equal to that of the Saudis. So their predicament has less to do with socialism and more to do with gross mismanagement of the economy.

Unfortunately, you are a victim of your govt's propaganda. So I would recommend reading less biased views.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

Please...As I said so often in this forum in the past: That we do not live in an intellectual and moral vacuum.

What it means is that management, good or bad, comes from different sources, notably competence and motivators. If you are motivated to do harm, effective management will be the least of your concern, whether you are technically competent or not. If you are motivated to do good and positive things, but if you are not properly educated, your technical incompetence can actually produce the reverse of what you want.

What happened in Venezuela, no matter how much The Nation magazine tried to spin it, was a combination of socialist motivation and technical (in)competence in managing the country.

According to the article that you brought on, Venezuela was rated 10th most corrupt in the world.

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

In 2015 Transparency International listed Venezuela as the tenth most corrupt country in the world (out of 167 listed).

Why is corruption so much the common theme before X, Y, or Z country descends into political and economic despair ?

So between you and I, it is YOU who is the victim of propaganda. The Nation magazine is hardly objective. To you, history does not exist before the Internet, so probably I have been reading it longer that you have been alive. The Nation magazine is famously sympathetic to Marxism and communist objectives. It is the 'Fox News' of the American Left. For you to bring on The Nation magazine as 'unbiased' is laughable.

 

[randomradio]

Please...As I said so often in this forum in the past: That we do not live in an intellectual and moral vacuum.

What it means is that management, good or bad, comes from different sources, notably competence and motivators. If you are motivated to do harm, effective management will be the least of your concern, whether you are technically competent or not. If you are motivated to do good and positive things, but if you are not properly educated, your technical incompetence can actually produce the reverse of what you want.

What happened in Venezuela, no matter how much The Nation magazine tried to spin it, was a combination of socialist motivation and technical (in)competence in managing the country.

According to the article that you brought on, Venezuela was rated 10th most corrupt in the world.

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

Why is corruption so much the common theme before X, Y, or Z country descends into political and economic despair ?

So between you and I, it is YOU who is the victim of propaganda. The Nation magazine is hardly objective. To you, history does not exist before the Internet, so probably I have been reading it longer that you have been alive. The Nation magazine is famously sympathetic to Marxism and communist objectives. It is the 'Fox News' of the American Left. For you to bring on The Nation magazine as 'unbiased' is laughable.

Oh wow, so typical. Socialism bad. Communism bad. Socialism leads to communism. Let's all forget the underlying causes. Venezuela is corrupt and is socialist so it's bad. You sound like a Fox commentator right there.

Right, then what about India? India is more socialist than Venezuela. China is also far more socialist than Venezuela. And what's worse is both countries have insignificant social welfare programs in comparison to Venezuela, which makes living conditions in Venezuela far superior. India and China are both socialist economies that allow capitalism to also thrive on the fringes. In both countries, the biggest employers are the govts. So where does your argument take you when it comes to these two countries?

Of course, I hope that my country would abandon its socialist policies through reforms someday, but that doesn't change the ground realities, that a socialist country is now the world's fastest growing major economy, still being driven by govt spending, and is one of the champions of democracy.

What do you think happened to the US economy in 2007 or even in the 1930s? There wasn't any socialism or communism in the US, was there? What about Japan when the asset prices burst? So here logic and reasoning will come to play, and a whole list of problems are listed, but when it comes to countries that the US don't like, logic and reasoning are thrown out the window, and the blame falls on anything that doesn't fit the American narrative, is that right?

I find it hilarious that you attack The Nation, when the article has so much more truth than even mainstream newspapers in the US. Economies don't collapse because they are socialist or capitalist, they collapse due to mismanagement or sometimes by uncontrollable forces like natural disasters or external economic conditions like the oil glut or the financial crisis.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...d-saudis-prove-that-socialism-works-just-fine

All the Middle Eastern oil economies are socialist. They simply solve most of their problems with hard cash.

So your narrative is lost here. The underlying causes are the oil glut and continued mismanagement of the economy, including the currency which is controlled by vested interests. If they devalue their currency like the Russians did, they will be up to speed in 5 years with a combination of diversification and upward mobility of oil once the global economy is in better shape.

The Russians are headed towards positive growth again, regardless of the oil glut and sanctions.
https://sputniknews.com/business/20160607/1040961231/gdp-russia-growth-forecast.html

The Saudis have also started to diversify their economy.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabias-cabinet-approves-economic-reform-package-1465252667

 

[Beast]

I actually think JF-17 is well suited for Philippines if relationship wasn't so strained. They could buy it with a loan from China. It's affordable and capable enough for what they need, mainly counter-insurgency.

We will sell them JL-15, it more suitable for countries like Philippine.

 

[TaiShang]

Hopefully, this will be the last one and signify the end of PH subjugation to the US' selfish interests in the Asia-Pacific.

If one needs to look at the practical results of US involvement and encouragement, look no further than Libya and Iraq. A US regime, which helped set up the menace called the ISIS and now is in bed with moderate-turned Al Nusra terrorists (AQ of Iraq), would not hesitate a similar set up in the PH.

***

U.S., Philippine marines cut short joint military exercises
October 10, 2016, Xinhua

MANILA, Oct. 10 -- The U.S. and Philippine marines have decided to cut short their amphibious landing exercises and live-fire training in the Philippines, ending the games one day ahead of schedule, a spokesman for the Philippine marines said on Monday.

Both sides have agreed to end the exercises on Tuesday instead of Wednesday, Capt. Ryan Lacuesta, spokesman for the Philippine marines, said.

The drills, which started on Oct. 4, were conducted in several areas in the Philippine Luzon island and Palawan province.

Lacuesta told reporters that the closing ceremony would be held at the Philippine marine headquarters in Manila on Tuesday.

"All major events have already been conducted. All the major exercises have been accomplished already so we decided to move the closing," he said.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, who assumed presidency in June, said he wants to terminate military exercises with the U.S. during his term and prohibit the Philippine military from joining in joint patrols in the South China Sea.

The U.S. and the Philippines conduct three major joint exercises and 28 minor cross-training exercises every year.

 

[艹艹艹]

China, Russia to hold second anti-missile drill
Updated: 2016-10-11 16:12
By Zhang Yunbi(chinadaily.com.cn)

China and Russia will conduct a second joint anti-missile exercise next year.

A China-Russia joint press conference on missile defense on the sidelines of the Xiangshan Forum in Beijing on Tuesday. [Photo/chinadaily.com.cn]

The announcement, on Tuesday, was made at a China-Russia joint press briefing on missile defense on the sidelines of the Xiangshan Forum in Beijing, a high-end meeting of defense officials and experts.

The two countries held a joint computer-simulated anti-missile drill in May.

Observers noted that Beijing and Moscow have increased their anti-missile cooperation this year as the United States and its ally, the Republic of Korea, pushed forward a joint plan to deploy the long-range Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-missile system in the ROK.

The X-band radar associated with the THAAD system has a maximum range of 2,000 km, a radius which is capable of covering parts of China and Russia.

In a joint statement on global strategic stability released following the meeting between President Xi Jinping and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin in June, the countries voiced shared concerns over the deployment of antimissile capabilities globally and said that any unilateral deployment is a setback.

At a China-Russia Northeast Asia security consultation in Moscow in July, Beijing and Moscow agreed that they will "proactively consider strengthening bilateral coordinating measures" to tackle potential negative factors posed by the deployment of THAAD.

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2016-10/11/content_27026575.htm