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Once you’re Pakistani, there is no going back to India

I call bullshyt on that. I know tons of Pakistani-Americans/Pakistani-British who have been to India on their US/UK Passports.....not to mention the countless who go on their Pakistani passports every year. Students, Golf team members and/or those who have distant families in India.

Visa is always a tricky thing and each nation reserves the right to grant or refuse one. I have been denied a UK Visa once and next time granted.

Lets not stereotype things.
 
I understand that. However, given the circumstances, it is not wise to go there. If someone has to see their relatives, send them ticket and bring them over to your place.
Sir,
It is not possible.Half of my paternal,oh sorry,almost all my paternal relatives are living in India.They refused to migrate except my father and few of his cousins and choose to stay here.
I feel just terrible to imagine of their paranoia of akhand bharat. I am fully aware that not all Indians think like that,but some exists which is dangerous for stability of this region.I am not,however denying presence of ZH type elements in our region as well.However,at least I do expect that our current policy is not much influenced by such ideology while Indian policy appears to be very much influenced by strict anti-pak policies?
Regards
 
No...Indians would be the right people to be held accountable for why India has a disease called discrimination...Just like how all over PDF Indians go crazy about some Muslims some Pakistanis do something and a whole nation is questioned....well DITTO!


Talk about H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y :whistle:

What is the point to this rambling? The China case refers to a political dispute on boundaries, the case against Pakistani origin expats is one of terrorism.

India is right to treat U.S./U.K/Canadanian citizens of Pakistani origin who hold dual citizenships as Pakistani alone & require them to apply as such. Holding of Pakistani passport/dual nationality automatically indicates a connection with that country & warrants further scrutiny. All U.S. citizens who have a single nationality are allowed to apply for a visa on their US passports & the time taken to process that is 6-8 weeks.
 
What is the point to this rambling? The China case refers to a political dispute on boundaries, the case against Pakistani origin expats is one of terrorism.
On American soil for an American citizen (based on AMERICAN laws)? I think you are pushing it too much!

India is right to treat U.S./U.K/Canadanian citizens of Pakistani origin who hold dual citizenships as Pakistani alone & require them to apply as such.
India has rights to push people around? What rights? Where did they pick it up?

Holding of Pakistani passport/dual nationality automatically indicates a connection with that country & warrants further scrutiny. All U.S. citizens who have a single nationality are allowed to apply for a visa on their US passports & the time taken to process that is 6-8 weeks.
No according to both the articles:

US citizens born in the US is one to three days, whereas the time for people of Pakistani origin, it is six weeks. Even this time requirement is just a scam; visas are not issued at all even after the person has waited for six weeks.


See even you dont know your own govt's scams :whistle:

As for connection with the land....Why should you throw your wrath about your citizens not being allowed dual citizenship on other citizens?

As for the connection with the country...It was India's dying wish for wanting a connection with Pakistan....and now the hypocrisy resurfaces?
 
Muslims in India are not particularly enthusiastic in welcoming Pakistanis. I just do not have an answer why but it is true.
 
On American soil for an American citizen (based on AMERICAN laws)? I think you are pushing it too much!

Maybe you should read up before making such comments. Nobody but India decides what the visa process for visiting India is. American laws simply do not apply. I'm astonished at the sense of entitlement.


India has rights to push people around? What rights? Where did they pick it up?

That is pretty automatic when you apply for visa. Why should US citizens who have Pakistani passports be allowed to get in as U.S. citizens? That would be India's call. Alone.




See even you dont know your own govt's scams :whistle:

That is just a complaint from a Pakistani American who has applied. We are not sure whether she applied on her Pakistani passport or the U.S. one. If she applied on a Pakistani passport, it could take any length of time, not 6-8 weeks. If she applied on her US passport after furnishing details of renunciation of Pakistani citizenship, only then can she expect a visa between 6& 8 weeks.. Not otherwise. That is assuming no red flags have cropped up.

As for connection with the land....Why should you throw your wrath about your citizens not being allowed dual citizenship on other citizens?

It is India that does not allow for dual nationality & as an Indian citizen, I agree completely with that policy. There is no wrath, this is an incident driven precaution. Wasn't there before 2008

As for the connection with the country...It was India's dying wish for wanting a connection with Pakistan....and now the hypocrisy resurfaces?

Obviously you are mistaken & there is no such "dying" wish.
 
Nobody but India decides what the visa process for visiting India is.
Yes I never objected that...

I said America decides who their citizens are.....Not India

American laws simply do not apply. I'm astonished at the sense of entitlement.
I am astonished at the sense of entitlement that Indians feel the need to re-define American citizens !!

That is pretty automatic when you apply for visa. Why should US citizens who have Pakistani passports be allowed to get in as U.S. citizens?
Because according

1) According to AMERICAN law they are Americans! Nothing India can do about it coz it isnt India's call what America calls them...America doesnt have 2nd class citizenship status like India gives to other people on their land...

2) According to American law which I did quote from the very article in OP:

According to the US Code Title 42, Chapter 21 of civil rights,
Discrimination against any person ‘based on age, disability, gender, race, national origin and religion (among other things) in a number of settings—including education, employment, access to businesses and buildings, federal services and more’ is prohibited.”

And on US soil India (consulate of India ON US SOIL) should obey US LAWS...Or less just admit they are DISCRIMINATING!

That would be India's call. Alone.
India's call can only be counted as discriminatory...

That is just a complaint from a Pakistani American who has applied.
And this reply came from someone hitting below the belt and is a liar? Wow you guys hire liars for this job?

We are not sure whether she applied on her Pakistani passport or the U.S. one.
Come again:

“You are accepting the same passports of others”.

If she applied on a Pakistani passport, it could take any length of time, not 6-8 weeks. If she applied on her US passport after furnishing details of renunciation of Pakistani citizenship, only then can she expect a visa between 6& 8 weeks.. Not otherwise. That is assuming no red flags have cropped up.

How sure are you about that scam:

His reply shattered me further. “Sir, India does not allow us to accept US passports from US citizens born in Pakistan, unless they first renounce their Pakistan citizenship”.

Oh the denial rant!

It is India that does not allow for dual nationality & as an Indian citizen, I agree completely with that policy.
I can see you have a pathetic grasp at the language..I never questioned how blindly you will agree to something

But the shortcomings of you lot of seeing other people having dual nationality while you cant ...Hence why I typed throwing your wrath! Do I need to explain EVERYTHING :tsk:

There is no wrath, this is an incident driven precaution. Wasn't there before 2008
Well then according to such a logic:
countries start closing their border from fear of transporting rapists...It should come about soon right? I mean after all it should be safety first, right? Dont turn it around coz it is solely your logic not mine hence should be applicable on every level with you coz you wholeheartedly agree with it!


Obviously you are mistaken & there is no such "dying" wish.
Of course not..It is plain ranting of what was that word....cant recall it coz I never believed in it....Aman ka tamasha or something
 
Yes I never objected that...

I said America decides who their citizens are.....Not India

This is for the purpose of getting an Indian visa. India alone decides. We are not interested about American citizenship otherwise.

I am astonished at the sense of entitlement that Indians feel the need to re-define American citizens !!

Once again, for the purpose of applying for an Indian visa.


Because according

1) According to AMERICAN law they are Americans! Nothing India can do about it coz it isnt India's call what America calls them...America doesnt have 2nd class citizenship status like India gives to other people on their land...

2) According to American law which I did quote from the very article in OP:

According to the US Code Title 42, Chapter 21 of civil rights,
Discrimination against any person ‘based on age, disability, gender, race, national origin and religion (among other things) in a number of settings—including education, employment, access to businesses and buildings, federal services and more’ is prohibited.”

And on US soil India (consulate of India ON US SOIL) should obey US LAWS...Or less just admit they are DISCRIMINATING!

U.S. laws do not apply. Maybe you should check the State department's advice when this question was put to them. They said it is India's right alone to decide how they want to process visa applications & essentially told the Pakistani Americans who questioned it, that they cannot make India look at them as American citizens for the purpose of visas.

“Unfortunately, the State Department is limited in its influence on foreign government visa and immigration actions,” he said. “Visas for travel to India are issued only by Indian authorities and are entirely under the purview of Indian laws, regulations, and procedures.”



"His reply shattered me further. “Sir, India does not allow us to accept US passports from US citizens born in Pakistan, unless they first renounce their Pakistan citizenship”."
Oh the denial rant!

What I said. If you have a Pakistani passport/dual nationality, you can't get in as an American.


PAKISTANI NATIONALS


Pakistani nationals are not eligible for Tourist Visa; they should apply for Visitor Visa instead. Visitor Visa is generally valid for three months. Applicants should specify places to be visited.


All applicants of Pakistani origin who hold dual nationality must apply for an Indian Visa on their Pakistani passport only. Those holding NICOP must give a copy thereof. Copy of NADRA Card, with English translation clearly indicating address, must also be submitted.


Processing time for applications from Pakistani nationals/ those holding dual nationality may generally be 2-3 months longer than other cases.


Pakistani nationals should also submit a sponsorship certificate, duly attested by authorized officer in India, along with self-attested copy of photo identity card of the issuing officer. In case of a family (only spouses and children), one sponsorship certificate can be submitted for the whole family not exceeding six members if the family is travelling, entering and exiting India together. Sponsorship certificate may not be required in case of business visa or conference visa etc. if other supporting documents are available, or in case of applicants who have visited India within the past two years. Embassy of India would decide this requirement on case to case basis.


Validity of Visa: Applicants (except Business visa) must avail the visa within 90 days of issue.


PERSONS OF PAKISTANI ORIGIN


All applicants of Pakistani origin who hold dual nationality must apply for an Indian Visa on their Pakistani passport only. Those holding NICOP must give a copy thereof. Those who have renounced Pakistani nationality or cancelled their Pakistani passport should submit documentary proof of the same.



Processing time of applications received from persons of Pakistani origin may take 7-8 weeks or more.


Embassy of India, The Hague, The Netherlands : Persons of Pakistani Origin


Official advice from the government of UK:

Applicants of Pakistani origin

All applicants of Pakistani origin who hold dual British-Pakistan nationality must apply for an Indian visa on their Pakistan passport. Those who have either renounced Pakistani nationality or cancelled their Pakistani passport would need to submit documentary proof of this.

Processing time for visa applications received from persons of Pakistani origin will be 7-8 weeks or more.

Processing time for applications from those holding dual British-Pakistan nationality will be substantially longer.


India travel advice - GOV.UK







I can see you have a pathetic grasp at the language..I never questioned how blindly you will agree to something

But the shortcomings of you lot of seeing other people having dual nationality while you cant ...Hence why I typed throwing your wrath! Do I need to explain EVERYTHING :tsk:

The only one with a pathetic understanding of the English language here is you. I said I support Indian policy on dual nationality, so there is no angst for me whatsoever about people of Indian origin not having dual nationality since I don't believe they should have it. The use of the word wrath was merely to put things in perspective.You don't have to explain everything but it would help if you understood even a little.

Indian rules are even tough on U.S. citizens of Indian origin who wish to apply for visa/PIO status on their American passports. They have to show either a cancelled Indian passport or a renunciation certificate stating that they are no longer Indian citizens. People using Indian passports after obtaining citizenship of any other country can go to jail for up to 5 years.


Well then according to such a logic:
countries start closing their border from fear of transporting rapists...It should come about soon right? I mean after all it should be safety first, right? Dont turn it around coz it is solely your logic not mine hence should be applicable on every level with you coz you wholeheartedly agree with it!

When it comes to that, we will see about it.



Of course not..It is plain ranting of what was that word....cant recall it coz I never believed in it....Aman ka tamasha or something

Aman ki Tamasha it is. We had one case of David Headley, we don't wish to enable another. If that is too much for you, tough!
 
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This is based on India not issuing visas or delaying visas to people of Pakistani origin?
Pakistan = Muslims of India ?




Seems pretty much the Indian government's position.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'As If We Are All David Headley'


The Indian government views half a million US citizens of Pakistani origin as terrorists. The Indian government sees him as representing us – Headley, who wasn’t even born in Pakistan.

Salman Nouman


My story revolves around love. A love that is forbidden and discouraged in a part of the world that is now India and Pakistan. India and Pakistan have a tension-filled history, complete with wars and mutual distrust.

While so-called ‘nationalists’ boast about the emotional and physical carnage, people like me – who dare to love the ‘enemy’ across the border and who want each country to admit its mistakes, – are termed as traitors.

After migrating to the US from Pakistan, I was awestruck by the equality and justice offered by this great land. I wasn’t known by my religion, cast or origin, but by my name, and my citizenship – American.

On a fall day in 2009, I received the letter I had been waiting for, from Whistling Woods, a film school near Mumbai. They had accepted me as a student for their Film Directing course. I was overjoyed. Filmmaking had always been my passion and after getting financially settled, I wanted to learn filmmaking at a place that had bred legends of cinema – Mumbai.

Off I headed to Travisa, the visa processing company, with my visa application and US passport. There were other Americans there as well, who were told to come pick their visas the same day or the next.

But when it came to me, the clerk looked at my passport and told me to step aside. Strange, I thought. After a short wait, I was told that I could not apply for an India visa on my US passport. “Sorry? I am a US citizen and that’s my country’s passport,” I said. “You are accepting the same passports of others”.

“No sir,” he replied. “You were born in Pakistan and in the eyes of the Indian government you are a Pakistani national, not a US citizen.” “How can you have different processes for nationals of the same country with the same passports?” I asked, shocked.

His reply shattered me further. “Sir, India does not allow us to accept US passports from US citizens born in Pakistan, unless they first renounce their Pakistan citizenship”.

“But I am a US national, and it is my right to be recognised and travel as one!”

“Sorry, you cannot apply for an India visa with this passport”.

A moment of truth and pain for me. My US passport, which looked exactly like any other US passport, was suddenly different due to my origin. I realised that as soon as the Indian government reads the word Pakistan on my passport, my name becomes David Headley for them. I don’t exist as a US citizen any more. Instead, I am equated with the dreaded criminal who ruthlessly created a web of deception and ran a criminal operation that ended in the tragic day of 26/11 in Mumbai. I become a terrorist suspect who cannot be allowed the freedom of travel in India that comes with a US passport.

I wondered whether they’d made this rule in error. Could it be changed if I called and informed the US Department of State about it? After all, weren’t they meant to facilitate travel by US citizens and ensure the protection of our rights in foreign territory? There are visa reciprocity agreements with foreign nations. How can India treat some US citizens (like me) differently than other US citizens given that the agreements between US and India do not exclude Indian or US nationals based on their ethnicity or origin?

After working through the maze of departments within the DOS, I was finally routed to the American Citizen Services and India Desk. They asked me to email them the details, which I did, expecting a quick resolution. Surely the all-powerful Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton would get Consular Affairs to immediately ask India to not discriminate against US citizens based on their origin and treat all Americans uniformly for visa applications?

My dream was short-lived. American Citizen Services told me that India has a right to deny my visa – to which I replied, of course, that that was not the problem. I would accept a denial on my US passport if I was put through the same process as any British, Irish, Italian, Arabic or other origin US citizen. As a US national, I wanted equality, and to be able to travel as a US national without my origin playing any part in that. It is the state department’s job to ensure that US citizens are not discriminated against. And yet, they told me: “We cannot make India look at you as an American”.

And there it was, the reality. I felt like an adopted child whose parents had just told him that they couldn’t stand up for him and make others see him as their son.

India rightfully took a stern stand against China’s discrimination against Indian citizens. In an interview to the ANI, External Affairs Minister S. M. Krishna said, “It has come to the notice of the government of India that China is issuing different visas to the people of Jammu and Kashmir. We are taking up the issue with the Chinese government,” he said. “We will tell them that visa related issue should be uniform, there should not be any discrimination among the Indian nationals while issuing visas.”

And yet, while implementing this origin-based visa rule on US citizens, India itself was engaged in the same kind of discrimination as China that it had protested against.

It is now 2013. The Indian government still views me, along with half a million other US citizens of Pakistani origin, as terrorists, as if we are all David Headley. The Indian government sees him as representing us – Headley, who wasn’t even born in Pakistan.

Collective punishment is deep rooted in the governing dynamics of India and Pakistan. Take any police case registered there; the police always raid the house of the accused and arrest all innocent relatives to pressurise the absconder. It is disheartening to see such counterproductive tactics making their way into the arena of international affairs. Suave, educated Indian diplomats being made to advance foreign policy as if they were local policemen.

Punishing all Pakistan-origin people for one person’s crime resolves nothing except walling off India’s vibrant society from the world. Thousands of Pakistani-origin US nationals have visited India, without ever being accused or found guilty of harming India in any way. Yet those thousands of goodwill ambassadors are all seen as David Headleys.

Even those who renounce their Pakistan citizenship, or are born US citizens to Pakistani origin parents or even grandparents, have to undergo a different visa process than other US nationals and are rarely issued visas with durations that are reserved for US nationals. The US State Department has never stood publicly with half a million US nationals of Pakistani origin.

India and the US are signing agreements of trade and other developmental programmes that exclude US citizens like me. Will other countries now follow suit and start their own policies of discriminating against some US citizens because of their origin? The state department is doing nothing to stop that fear from being a reality. Its strength is now a ‘mighty myth’ for citizens like us.

India, the world’s largest democracy, must realise that this policy effectively halts the revolution of a changed mindset between India and Pakistan. It only helps terror mongers. Mahatma Gandhi, who ignited the freedom movement by refusing to let the British discriminate against him in a train in South Africa, would not approve of this policy.

In the end, a plea to the Indian government: please welcome visa applicants of Pakistan origin. Realise that our mere will to visit your country is a defeat of hate mongers and terrorists. Read my name as a well-wisher of India who wants to visit you bearing nothing but prayers of love, peace and prosperity and is ready to provide you all the details needed to prove his legitimacy of travel.

Salman Nouman is a businessman based in Dubai and the USA. This piece was first published in the The News, Pakistan.

'As If We Are All David Headley' | Salman Nouman


TWO Very Important points:
1. A Visa is not a right but a privilege
2. India does not recognise Dual-Citizenship. In that case, the original Citizenship applies over-riding all others.




And most of all; India has not forgotten a piece of $hit called Daood Gilani alias David Headley.

Samjhuta Express tragedy: Pakistani couple denied access to children's graves in India - The Express Tribune

I hate india i hate india i hatee ittttttttttttttt

I BLOOODDDY HATEEEEE ITTTTT!!!!!


So....... what DaFuq, mian ???? :whistle:
 
TWO Very Important points:
1. A Visa is not a right but a privilege
2. India does not recognise Dual-Citizenship. In that case, the original Citizenship applies over-riding all others.




And most of all; India has not forgotten a piece of $hit called Daood Gilani alias David Headley.




So....... what DaFuq, mian ???? :whistle:
Shove ur dafuq and get out of here
 
I have heard that Pakistanis have to report to local police station every week when they are in India?

I have also heard that all Pakistanis in India are tailed behind the scenes?

I saw Baby yesterday (was on cable, and being Sunday I caught parts of it, so saw it in pieces many times), so is it true that our governement is tapping all interactions of us Indians with Pakistanis?

Defence.pk ?

Chats? Skype? Obviously telephone calls.

If I have a Pakstani friend I speak to regularly, am I in crosshairs of our IB? Thodi fatti hui hai bhaiyyon. I plan to join the army and I do not want to jeopardize my commission.
 

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