On Arab indifference toward the Peshawar massacre

[Frogman]

Errr, I suppose you missed out a part where Government of Pakistan declared Internal extremism and terrorism the enemy No.1 of Pakistan last year. We don't shy away from our problem. We admitted long ago they are our enemy, or else why would our Army would be fighting such extremist for past 10 years if we People of Pakistan considers problem does not lie within us? I don't know why you hold a perception we don't accept our faults and problems

That's one of the problems, it took ten years for Pak to consider internal terrorism an existential threat and before that it harboured extremists and terrorists and gave them a pedestal and that is where the wrong assumption that Pak supports or exports terror comes from, an idea which persists today. The roots of terror should have been pulled out long before 9/11 in Pak and in the ME. This is a failure both in Pak and in certain ME states.

A lot of Pakistanis on this forum continue to only blame others for the terrorism in Pak, be it Arabs (all of them which is incredibly ignorant), Indians, Americans, and/or the Israelis. Some of these members I actually respect.

But let me show you other side fo mirror/coin. If Saudi Arabia and like minded arab states stop funding extremist groups in Syria, Would they able to survive own their own or they would be crushed easily by Syrian army?

Was the SAA capable of destroying the armed men (who eventually became the loosely affiliated FSA) at the start of the Syrian revolution (which has now turned into a civil war) when it was at the height of its power? No.

Anyway, Syria has turned into a massive civil and proxy war. SA continues its air strikes against IS and AQ elements.

That's what we Pakistani members be crying about for a week, if such funding ceases, we will permanently crush them. They continue to exist, because of the monetary support they able to get and in a third world country, you can buy anything if you got enough buks.

The funding, the training, the support, and the extremist ideology are problems that could have been rooted out long ago. Again, there have been failures. However, with a comprehensive campaign that does not discriminate between a good or bad terrorist progress can be made (and I believe that is what's happening now) and whoever funds these groups will eventually be brought down either through cooperation with organizations such as the UN or Interpol or via cooperation with nations.

 

[Bratva]

Most of the 500 million or so Arabs have no idea about any terrorist groups in Pakistan outside Taliban.

Nor can KSA or the GCC monitor their borders constantly. For instance we have hundred of thousands of illegal migrants from South Asia and elsewhere.

I can easily find CIA cables that show Pakistani support for terrorism, Taliban etc. What has that got to do with the average Pakistan? Nothing. Nobody in the GCC elected their leaders unlike your people.

Besides we are talking about a small minority of donors. In the past regular donors thought that they were donating to humanitarian causes across the world while they in reality were fooled by criminals.

This has by large stopped now.

There is no funding for any "extremists" in Syria from the state. We stand with our Syrian brothers and sisters and support the legitimate Syrian opposition in their struggle against the mass-murderer Al-Assad. If some non-Arabs consider that terrorism then I could not care less.

The irony is today America declared they won't kill or capture Mullah Omar after January 2 unless he poses a direct threat to America and America is negotiating with same terrorists in Qatar which they accused Pakistan of supporting. So What America says about Pakistan is null and void because they themselves engaging with same group and tolerating there presence in Afghaistan. Hence you can not use that Pakistan supporting terrorism card in this argument.

Why should we believe you that funding has been stopped by now? When there is no data to corroborate your claim.

 

[al-Hasani]

The irony is today America declared they won't kill or capture Mullah Omar after January 2 unless he poses a direct threat to America and America is negotiating with same terrorists in Qatar which they accused Pakistan of supporting. So What America says about Pakistan is null and void because they themselves engaging with same group and tolerating there presence in Afghaistan. Hence you can not use that Pakistan supporting terrorism card in this argument.

Why should we believe you that funding has been stopped by now? When there is no data to corroborate your claim.

Why should we believe that Pakistan does not continue to support terrorism and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

Yes, just like the US used the Afghan Mujahideen in their fight against the Soviets with Pakistan and ISI playing a crucial role in that too. I am not an American.

Nor can you use KSA supports "terrorism" when the state is not involved (the very same KSA is bombing ISIS in Syria and Iraq now and part of the coalition) just like KSA has worked closely with the international society to deal with this menace (home and abroad). KSA has listed those organizations native to Pakistan as terrorist organizations in case you do not know.

We are not responsible for what a tiny microscopic minority of nationals do. In such a case Pakistan has a huge problem itself as you guys have more potential terrorist than any other country. Just look at what is going on in your country if you don't believe this. That's the harsh reality. You can choose to deny it or not or just take a trip to Waziristan. It's totally lawless there. Millions of people doing what they please. Taliban like movements ruling the streets etc.

Understand that no sane person will take any responsibility for what their unelected regimes do (which are not involved in this anymore) nor what a tiny microscopic number of PRIVATE citizens do. Apparently this is very hard to understand for many Pakistanis on PDF. It's like talking to a wall.

 

[SipahSalar]

Why should we believe that Pakistan does not continue to support terrorism and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

Counter questioning does not answer the question. And the taliban we are in "contact" with,even USA, the so-called leader on WOT, announced they will not target taliban for just being taliban anymore, unless they are directly working against USA.

Nor can you use KSA supports "terrorism" when the state is not involved (the very same KSA is bombing ISIS in Syria and Iraq now and part of the coalition)

You are only bombing them since they turned against you. You were perfectly fine with the situation in Syria for quite some time. In fact you were looking for weapon suppliers to the rebels.

 

[al-Hasani]

Counter questioning does not answer the question. And the taliban we are in "contact" with,even USA, the so-called leader on WOT, announced they will not target taliban for just being taliban anymore, unless they are directly working against USA.


You are only bombing them since they turned against you. You were perfectly fine with the situation in Syria for quite some time. In fact you were looking for weapon suppliers to the rebels.

The question already got answered in case you missed it. Yes, whatever. Pakistan is obviously not responsible for dozens of indigenous terrorist groups (possibly more than anywhere else on the planet), that millions of their citizens are potential Taliban members or that many more millions are sympatizing with those terrorist groups, that large parts of Pakistan are lawless etc. We know this old nonsense story. Only Arabs and Americans are to blame for your miseries. Is that not right?

KSA nor any other Arab country supported ISIS (ever) nor were any Arab state "fine" with the situation in Syria. Unless you think that Arabs are fine with plenty of their brethren being engaged in wars and if you think so then it says more about you than anything else.

Nor has ISIS turned against KSA at any moment. Long before ISIS even came to exist KSA was dealing with domestic terrorism. That will remain to be the case as long as evil and misguided people exist. Long after ISIS will be just a footnote in the history books of the ME.

 

[SipahSalar]

The question already got answered in case you missed it. Yes, whatever. Pakistan is obviously not responsible for dozens of indigenous terrorist groups (possibly more than anywhere else on the planet), that millions of their citizens are potential Taliban members or that many more millions are sympatizing with those groups etc. We know this old nonsense story. Only Arabs and Americans are to blame for your miseries. Is that not right?

If "millions" of Pakistanis were taliban members, I promise you that the whole middle east would have been under taliban rule. That's just the kind of exaggerated claim that is expected from you.

KSA nor any other Arab country supported ISIS (ever) nor were any Arab state "fine" with the situation in Syria. Unless you think that Arabs are fine with plenty of their brethren being engaged in wars and if you think so then it says more about you than anything else.

Of course they did not support ISIS because there was no ISIS at the time. They just sent the rebels weapons and hoped that everything turned out alright, creating the perfect environment for ISIS-like militants to take hold, get nurtured and spread.

EDIT: Everything is fair for the fanatic Saudis as long as their Shiite rivals get hurt in the process.

 

[Bratva]

Why should we believe that Pakistan does not continue to support terrorism and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

Yes, just like the US used the Afghan Mujahideen in their fight against the Soviets with Pakistan and ISI playing a crucial role in that too. I am not an American.

Nor can you use KSA supports "terrorism" when the state is not involved (the very same KSA is bombing ISIS in Syria and Iraq now and part of the coalition) just like KSA has worked closely with the international society to deal with this menace (home and abroad). KSA has listed those organizations native to Pakistan as terrorist organizations in case you do not know.

We are not responsible for what a tiny microscopic minority of nationals do. In such a case Pakistan has a huge problem itself as you guys have more potential terrorist than any other country. Just look at what is going on in your country if you don't believe this. That's the harsh reality. You can choose to deny it or not or just take a trip to Waziristan. It's totally lawless there. Millions of people doing what they please. Taliban like movements ruling the streets etc.

Understand that no sane person will take any responsibility for what their unelected regimes do (which are not involved in this anymore) nor what a tiny microscopic number of PRIVATE citizens do. Apparently this is very hard to understand for many Pakistanis on PDF. It's like talking to a wall.

It is understandable when a neutral observer says Pakistan lacks resources or finances to fight war against terrorists.

Does this argument hold against Saudi Arabia as well ? Are your financial regulatory authorities lack resources or human power to detect the flow of money these groups receive ? Does your Intelligence has no Idea that Haqqani leaders come and go from Saudia at their own pleasure or do they lack resources human power to track,detect and prevent those haqqani leaders and who they meet when they come to Saudi Arabia which would be "TINY PRIVATE DONORS" ?

The yearly amount require to finance their operations is 10-15 billion Pakistani Rs. which is 100-150 million riyals. Can "TINY PRIVATE DONORS" donate such large amount of money and stay hidden from authorities ? Your Private donors are donating money from last 7-8 years and Your regime turns blind towards their activities because it isn't a priority of your government to stop them.

We are talking about choking lifeline of terrorists, once that lifeline dries up, all groups will crumble like house of cards.

Just like, When you are trying to stop fire by pouring water on it, would it be helpful if another person continue to throw gasoline on it simultaneously ?

 

[SrNair]

Says one whose PM is a murderer.

@WebMaster @Horus @Jungibaaz @Chak Bamu
what the hell is this?
This is the Indian PM who showed solidarity to the Pakistan and those victims before that of your so called Brethren in the Middle East like mentioned in article.Why should he drag this man in to this thread?

 

[SipahSalar]

what the hell is this?
This is the Indian PM who showed solidarity to the Pakistan and those victims before that of your so called Brethren in the Middle East like mentioned in article.Why should he drag this man in to this thread?

That photo is the result of clearly troll posts by Indian members of PDF. Pakistan appreciates the solidarity India has shown with Pakistani children.

 

[ozzy22]

If we are ever going to solve this issue than we need to admit that this is our fault. Be it funding coming from overseas, enemy countries exacerbating this issue, ignoring this problem and hoping that it will magically disappear All this should have been dealt with by the Pakistani authorities.

Why should we believe that Pakistan does not continue to support terrorism and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

Yes, just like the US used the Afghan Mujahideen in their fight against the Soviets with Pakistan and ISI playing a crucial role in that too. I am not an American.

Nor can you use KSA supports "terrorism" when the state is not involved (the very same KSA is bombing ISIS in Syria and Iraq now and part of the coalition) just like KSA has worked closely with the international society to deal with this menace (home and abroad). KSA has listed those organizations native to Pakistan as terrorist organizations in case you do not know.

We are not responsible for what a tiny microscopic minority of nationals do. In such a case Pakistan has a huge problem itself as you guys have more potential terrorist than any other country. Just look at what is going on in your country if you don't believe this. That's the harsh reality. You can choose to deny it or not or just take a trip to Waziristan. It's totally lawless there. Millions of people doing what they please. Taliban like movements ruling the streets etc.

Understand that no sane person will take any responsibility for what their unelected regimes do (which are not involved in this anymore) nor what a tiny microscopic number of PRIVATE citizens do. Apparently this is very hard to understand for many Pakistanis on PDF. It's like talking to a wall.

Rightly or wrongly people believe that Saudis and the Gulf countries are major supporters of terrorism. This is something that is widely believed. Just go to any Western defense forum and you’ll see what they have to say about this. This is not something that is only said by us, far from it.

 

[SrNair]

That photo is the result of clearly troll posts by Indian members of PDF. Pakistan appreciates the solidarity India has shown with Pakistani children.

That photo is the result of clearly troll posts by Indian members of PDF. Pakistan appreciates the solidarity India has shown with Pakistani children.

If someone trolled in here then just report him .Dont drag other nations leaders that is nothing to do with it.
And the posts he quoted was genuine.Some people in Pakistan still support these monster.That is why they give so much respect for man that is hanged by Pakistan state for his wrong doings.
Any way dont drag in here.If you dont like Indian posts then just report it.

 

[Kaniska]

The Arabs!?

Last time I checked there were 22 Arab states and the vast majority of them had exactly sweet f all to do with the Mujahideen or financing terrorism in South Asia (or anywhere else) from the 1950s onwards.

It is the Pakistani states fault that it continued to harbour extremist elements after the war with the Soviets had been won in order to keep influence in Afghanistan. It is also the Pakistani states fault in providing Islamist extremists a pedestal from which to preach without consequence. It is the Pakistani states fault that it distinguishes between good and bad terrorists.

The terrorist attacks in your nation, are your fault, whether they are being funded from Saudi or Zimbabwe is irrelevant. It was your states prerogative to combat extremism and it failed to do so.

500 million people 3 thousand miles away are not who you should be blaming for your own woes.

Spot on...Pakistan has to take ownership of their nation...They can not always blame oustiders for their misery....If Pakistan is poor, then blame West,if some terrorist got trained in Pakistan and attack somewhere, then they will blame non state actors If Pakistan is radicalized then blame Arabs, if there is no one to blame then blame India...

This all kind of execuse should stop and take the ownership of the problem that they are facing today.

 

[Levina]

Oh piss off already!

Does Pakistani media report and condemn the deaths and tragedies that occur all over in the MENA region!? No. Apart from coverage of Syria/Iraq the rest of the region gets no attention.

Do daily tragedies in the Yemen get any attention from Pakistani media!? No.
Do daily tragedies in Libya get any attention from Pakistani media!? No
How about the insurgency in Tunisia/Algeria or the Sinai!? Same bloody answer

All Pakistanis have done on this forum and in the media is try to find a foreign source to blame for this massacre and anything to latch on to and complain about when you should be uniting to fight an enemy that has arisen from within your own society.

Btw there's like 22 Arab states, with a multitude of state and private media outlets, I doubt anyone had the time to scour through every single one of them.

Frankly all that I read these days in the newspapers is about middle east and the subcontinent. And it is depressing!!
High time muslims of the world got together and got into an introspection mode as to what has gone wrong within Islam.

 

[IRAN 1802]

In fact there are already millions of Pakistani Taliban sympathizers. Taliban cannot conquer all of Afghanistan so why talk about them conquering the ME?

Fact of the matter is that you got millions upon millions of radicalized youth and dozens of terrorist organizations (indigenous) inside your borders. Those are Pakistanis. Not Martians. Those people have a brain like you and me and can make their own choices here in life.

Your country was the foremost supporter (after the US) of the Afghan Mujahideen and long after the Afghan-Soviet War ended your government and military intelligence was supporting Taliban and other groups in Afghanistan. Ask the average Afghan.

Yes, rebels here being the legitimate Syrian opposition. Not ISIS. Yes, similar to Russian, Farsi etc. billion big support for the Al-Assad terror regime and Shia terrorist groups.

Yes, that's why 15% of Saudi Arabia's population are Shia's and why there have only been 1 terrorist attack on them ever which unfortunately happened this year.

@Bratva

I don't believe those sources are telling the whole story accurately. Besides yes it is impossible to track everything down in KSA. For your information KSA is the second biggest remittances provider in the world after the US. BILLIONS of DOLLARS are going out of the country each year.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/bus...-s-second-top-remittance-sending-country.html

Similarily how illegal migration and drug trade cannot be fully stopped. In fact only a minority gets stopped.

Yes, sure. Taliban and similar groups are surviving due to the INDIGENOUS opium trade in Afghanistan before anything else. Because Afghans, Farsis, Russians and Pakistanis consume too much heroin. Not a few donors here and there.

http://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/resources/taliban_opium_1.pdf



That's their ignorance speaking and they often equal support for Islam as "terrorism". The problem in the Arab world and the GCC are due to a microscopic amount of wealthy (mostly) private donors or organizations that hide under the pretext of relief etc. Many of such organizations have been busted in the past and unknowing people who thought that they were donating to Pakistan, Somalia or other countries in hardship were actually donating to extremist groups abroad.

The West recognizes the fight against terrorism that the GCC is doing and state that very often publicly. So did the UN recently. What the common Joe thinks is not my concern. That common Joe thinks that Arabs are flying on carpets when going to work as well. Can't use that for much.

Yes, there are still problems with extremism in KSA and some clerics but the government is turning no blind eye to them. Anyone just remotely knowledgable about this field would agree on this. That's a ridiculous and unfounded accusation. We have this problem to deal with and know it very well. Nobody is making any secret of it either. KSA often arrests suspected terrorists, executes condemned terrorists or deports or jails foreign terrorists.

I know that every person that is born in SA is hatred about Iranians, but you need to stop calling Iranians "Farsi" .

 

[ozzy22]

In fact there are already millions of Pakistani Taliban sympathizers. Taliban cannot conquer all of Afghanistan so why talk about them conquering the ME?

Fact of the matter is that you got millions upon millions of radicalized youth and dozens of terrorist organizations (indigenous) inside your borders. Those are Pakistanis. Not Martians. Those people have a brain like you and me and can make their own choices here in life.

Your country was the foremost supporter (after the US) of the Afghan Mujahideen and long after the Afghan-Soviet War ended your government and military intelligence was supporting Taliban and other groups in Afghanistan. Ask the average Afghan.

Yes, rebels here being the legitimate Syrian opposition. Not ISIS. Yes, similar to Russian, Farsi etc. billion big support for the Al-Assad terror regime and Shia terrorist groups.

Yes, that's why 15% of Saudi Arabia's population are Shia's and why there have only been 1 terrorist attack on them ever which unfortunately happened this year.

@Bratva

I don't believe those sources are telling the whole story accurately. Besides yes it is impossible to track everything down in KSA. For your information KSA is the second biggest remittances provider in the world after the US. BILLIONS of DOLLARS are going out of the country each year.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/bus...-s-second-top-remittance-sending-country.html

Similarily how illegal migration and drug trade cannot be fully stopped. In fact only a minority gets stopped.

Yes, sure. Taliban and similar groups are surviving due to the INDIGENOUS opium trade in Afghanistan before anything else. Because Afghans, Farsis, Russians and Pakistanis consume too much heroin. Not a few donors here and there.

http://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/resources/taliban_opium_1.pdf



That's their ignorance speaking and they often equal support for Islam as "terrorism". The problem in the Arab world and the GCC are due to a microscopic amount of wealthy (mostly) private donors or organizations that hide under the pretext of relief etc. Many of such organizations have been busted in the past and unknowing people who thought that they were donating to Pakistan, Somalia or other countries in hardship were actually donating to extremist groups abroad.

The West recognizes the fight against terrorism that the GCC is doing and state that very often publicly. So did the UN recently. What the common Joe thinks is not my concern. That common Joe thinks that Arabs are flying on carpets when going to work as well. Can't use that for much.

Yes, there are still problems with extremism in KSA and some clerics but the government is turning no blind eye to them. Anyone just remotely knowledgable about this field would agree on this. That's a ridiculous and unfounded accusation. We have this problem to deal with and know it very well. Nobody is making any secret of it either. KSA often arrests suspected terrorists, executes condemned terrorists or deports or jails foreign terrorists.

It’s good that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are taking action but we have to admit that our actions in the past has created this mess, rather than making excuses. Which the Muslim world is so keen to do. It just shows how unhealthy and pathetic the mindset of the Muslim world is at the moment.