OHHH Come ON India... STOP ACTING LIKE A BABY...J-20 is J-20 ,Rafale is rafale no match.

[Fireurimagination]

Chinese aren't allowed to export those variants because of copy rights violation which were expressed by Russia...

Exactly a completely indigenous flanker is still not a reality but J-20 is better than F-22? Are you kidding me?

 

[Akasa]

Do you think they are still flying the Rafael which they did 15 years ago? Is Toyota still selling the corolla it was selling in 1966? What we know is 'today' Rafael is one of the best proved/battle hardened 4.5 generation fighters and J-20 will be a 5 generation fighter with 'not so sure' capabilities

Of course the Rafale undergoes incremental upgrades; so does the J-20 (or any other combat aircraft). Statements purporting that "Rafale is one of the best" adds no substance to your argument and means little if you are to formally assess the Rafale along with another aircraft. To set the record straight, flying air-to-ground missions over Libya and Syria (both of which have essentially zero air defense capabilities) "proves" its combat capabilities no more than dribbling a basketball validates Michael Jordan's skills.

Well 9 ladies cannot give birth to a child in 1 month. The west have been doing R&D for years pumping in billions of dollars to maintain their supremacy and the results are there for all to see. Given China has done reverse engineering and has cut the learning curve but reverse engineering can help only so much. China still has to buy engines from Russia doesn't that speak volumes about technological prowess of these countries?

Well, let's see the "results" you speak of. Let's see some raw data (engine thrust, radar range, missile range, IRST range, roll rate, etc. etc.) of the F-22/F-35/J-20/J-11/Millennium Falcon. All that you've done is to draw your comparisons entirely on generalizations and stigmas that may or may not be accurate. The fact that you gauge "technological prowess" on one sector of the aerospace industry, engines, speaks to me that you are neither interested nor serious enough to undertake an elaborate comparison of one aircraft to another, not that such a comparison would be feasible anyways given the obscurity of these fighters.

Exactly a completely indigenous flanker is still not a reality but J-20 is better than F-22? Are you kidding me?

The J-11B, J-15, J-16, and J-15 source their subsystems from Chinese vendors, so they can virtually be considered "indigenous". And why are these fighters in the same conversation as the J-20, when they were built by two different institutions and incorporate different subsystems?

 

[Fireurimagination]

Of course the Rafale undergoes incremental upgrades; so does the J-20 (or any other combat aircraft). Statements purporting that "Rafale is one of the best" adds no substance to your argument and means little if you are to formally assess the Rafale along with another aircraft. To set the record straight, flying air-to-ground missions over Libya and Syria (both of which have essentially zero air defense capabilities) "proves" its combat capabilities no more than dribbling a basketball validates Michael Jordan's skills.

Rafale is one of the best is something said by avionics expert and not me. It is a product that has matured over a period of time and serves in various forces too so its capabilities are for all to see and study

Well, let's see the "results" you speak of. Let's see some raw data (engine thrust, radar range, missile range, IRST range, roll rate, etc. etc.) of the F-22/F-35/J-20/J-11/Millennium Falcon. All that you've done is to draw your comparisons entirely on generalizations and stigmas that may or may not be accurate. The fact that you gauge "technological prowess" on one sector of the aerospace industry, engines, speaks to me that you are neither interested nor serious enough to undertake an elaborate comparison of one aircraft to another, not that such a comparison would be feasible anyways given the obscurity of these fighters.

Are/will be details of F-22 or J-20 available in public domain? What if I state Indian AMCA will be the best 5th generation fighter and will squat the F-22s, J-20s and FGFAs like flies as it has some hidden technology. You will quickly point me to the fact that LCA is still not getting FOC and the engines are from US and Kaveri engines are still struggling. Won't you? I am doing just that. Just like you don't become a champion in a week or month or by drinking the protein powder that a champion drinks it takes times, resources and much much more.

 

[New World]

Northrop Grumman F-35 Lightning II

can anyone tell me when Lockheed Martin was sold to Northrop Grumman?

 

[Akasa]

Rafale is one of the best is something said by avionics expert and not me. It is a product that has matured over a period of time and serves in various forces too so its capabilities are for all to see and study

I've seen you write "one of the best", or some variation thereof, at least three times in this thread alone, and not one shred of technical argument to back that claim up. Come on, buddy.

Are/will be details of F-22 or J-20 available in public domain? What if I state Indian AMCA will be the best 5th generation fighter and will squat the F-22s, J-20s and FGFAs like flies as it has some hidden technology. You will quickly point me to the fact that LCA is still not getting FOC and the engines are from US and Kaveri engines are still struggling. Won't you? I am doing just that. Just like you don't become a champion in a week or month or by drinking the protein powder that a champion drinks it takes times, resources and much much more.

Which is exactly what you have been doing with regards to the Rafale. Introspection would do this thread a whole lot of good.

 

[untitled]

can anyone tell me when Lockheed Martin was sold to Northrop Grumman?

When old Boeing McDonnell had a farm....

 

[Fireurimagination]

I've seen you write "one of the best", or some variation thereof, at least three times in this thread alone, and not one shred of technical argument to back that claim up. Come on, buddy.

Rafael and Euro Fighter are two of the best 4.5++ fighter in the world, this fact is not being said by 'me' but by experts. Read around the forum. Different Air-forces of the world are dying to get their hands on these machines and selecting them after thorough and rigorous testings and paying top $$$s states volumes of this fact

Which is exactly what you have been doing with regards to the Rafale. Introspection would do this thread a whole lot of good.

Read above, introspection is required on your end, I give you that J-20 would be a great plane and a force to reckon with etc etc. But better than F-22, no way hoze

 

[Akasa]

Rafael and Euro Fighter are two of the best 4.5++ fighter in the world, this fact is not being said by 'me' but by experts. Read around the forum. Different Air-forces of the world are dying to get their hands on these machines and selecting them after thorough and rigorous testings states volumes of this fact

Whoops, let me correct my mistake: this is the fourth time you've written "one of the best".

Read above, I give you that J-20 would be a great plane and a force to reckon with etc etc. But better than F-22, no way hoze

Who said that the J-20 was "better" than the F-22?

 

[Fireurimagination]

Whoops, let me correct my mistake: this is the fourth time you've written "one of the best".

Written by me said by 'Experts'

Who said that the J-20 was "better" than the F-22?

Okay so you understand that J-20 can't be better than F-22, now I can die in peace So it can be at most near F-35 and Rafael is capable of taking on F-35 at least you will believe that, if I am not wrong I have a seen a Rafael kill of a F-35 in some exercise too

 

[Akasa]

Written by me said by 'Experts'

Right. "Experts".

Okay so you understand that J-20 can't be better than F-22, now I can die in peace So it can be at most near F-35 and Rafael is capable of taking on F-35 at least you will believe that, if I am not wrong I have a seen a Rafael kill of a F-35 in some exercise too

Oh boy; it seems that we are back at square one.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Right. "Experts".

Oh boy; it seems that we are back at square one.

Look at the thread title by some fan-boy 'ohhh come on india stop acting like a baby j 20 is j 20 rafale is rafale no match' so I am just trying to clear the fact that J-20 is no F-22 and Rafael is indeed very well capable to hold it's ground against a 5th generation fighter

 

[That Guy]

Written by me said by 'Experts'



Okay so you understand that J-20 can't be better than F-22, now I can die in peace So it can be at most near F-35 and Rafael is capable of taking on F-35 at least you will believe that, if I am not wrong I have a seen a Rafael kill of a F-35 in some exercise too

Nice mental gymnastics. You took the thread from being about the J-20 and the Rafale, to the J-20 and the F-22. No one said that the F-22 and the J-20 were inferior or superior to each other.

First of all, it wasn't the F-35 that lost to the Rafale, it was the F-22, with rules of engagement that heavily favored the Rafale, because the F-22 wasn't allowed to use its radar, due to security purposes.

Next, this isn't rock paper scissors, this is real life. Give facts, numbers, statistics...etc, if you can't do that, refrain from making ridiculous comments.

Finally, who are these "experts", name them, or don't mention them if you can't.

 

[Akasa]

Look at the thread title by some fan-boy 'ohhh come on india stop acting like a baby j 20 is j 20 rafale is rafale no match' so I am just trying to clear the fact that J-20 is no F-22 and Rafael is indeed very well capable to hold it's ground against a 5th generation fighter

We've been through this before; such statements mean absolutely zilch without any evidence or reasoning. In fact, by the same standards, I can just as "expertly" claim that the J-10A can beat the Rafale, the J-11B can defeat the F-22, the Millennium Falcon can defeat the Death Star, and Mike Tyson can defeat Dwayne Johnson.

 

[Tamilnadu]

Translation: "We know nothing of the Rafale, nothing of the J-20, nothing of the T-50/FGFA, and nothing of the F-22, but what the heck; let's throw some meaningless comparisons just for the sake of it."

We know nothing about J20,but we know about rafale and su35....and you know about J20.
Now Translation.

We rejected su 35 and chose rafale,that should tell you what we think and china inspite of the capability to produce a J20 which has fare mor advanced(claimed by chinese) than a 4 or 4.5 gen.but have to buy a 4.5 gen aircraft which we rejected.

 

[Akasa]

We know nothing about J20,but we know about rafale and su35....and you know about J20.
Now Translation.

We rejected su 35 and chose rafale,that should tell you what we think and china inspite of the capability to produce a J20 which has fare mor advanced(claimed by chinese) than a 4 or 4.5 gen.but have to buy a 4.5 gen aircraft which we rejected.

So, in other terms, "we" know nothing of the Su-35 deal, nothing of the J-20, nothing of the aerospace industries of Russia/China, and nothing of the circumstances under which the deal precipitated. Can't say I didn't predict where this thread was ending up.