Oh India!

[Soumitra]

This is same as in Himachal and few other states. But I am more worried about demography. Irrespective of any Pak involvement in destabalizing it via proxy. As I see this more internal political issue. The Kashmir will become another UP.


They do it because of the karachi Agreement. Which gives them right to do it.

And thanks to our lazy government that they are busy appeasing the Kashmiris past 70 years with slogans like Kashmiriyat Insaniyat which are just bookish rather than doing something in Occupied Kashmir by Pak.

What is so special about being Kashmiri which is not so special being a Bihari , or Himachali or Keralite. Does it mean all of these people should demand freedom and only they people will notice the speciality. Bl**dy insane Indian politics.

Loot loot ke kha khaye yeh Kashmiri India ko.



To the bold part, well you have given so called SPECIAL status to Kashmir for what reason? Are rest of the Indians less special? Or Let people in Arunachal also demand freedom and only then our lazy Govt will give them special status. You forget that they are contributing more towards India than Looters sitting in Srinagar.

I don't even involve Pakistan when talking about Kashmir. It is our govt failed policy. Do jootey maro in Kashmirio ko sari Kashmiriyat and Insaniyat ajayegi bahar.

These kashmirs are headache. Treat them harshly!! They are looting our country. Remove 370 and send brutal forces. Pakistan is more sane than our idiots sitting in parliament.

You are a new member. A sincere bit of advise. Do not waste your time with this "intellectual" especially on Kashmir Threads until and unless you enjoy being insulted and called names

 

[freeskylord]

You are a new member. A sincere bit of advise. Do not waste your time with this "intellectual" especially on Kashmir Threads until and unless you enjoy being insulted and called names

Thanks for the advise.



I will only discuss Kashmir with our Indian members, be it intellectual or anti nationals because it is political issue and our internal matter and not with any Pakistani. What do you say?

 

[Soumitra]

Thanks for the advise.

But I will not include Pakistan in my debate rather we should not discuss this with any Pakistani.

I will only discuss Kashmir with our Indian members, be it intellectual or anti nationals because it is political issue and our internal matter. What do you say?

I am sure that you know what happens when you discuss Kashmir issue with the Pakistanis. But this particular member (@Joe Shearer ) sometimes behaves more Pakistani then Pakistanis themselves. Only engage with him if you are ready for abuses and name calling.

Rest is up to you. India is a democratic country and you are free to do what you want.

 

[freeskylord]

I am sure that you know what happens when you discuss Kashmir issue with the Pakistanis. But this particular member (@Joe Shearer ) sometimes behaves more Pakistani then Pakistanis themselves. Only engage with him if you are ready for abuses and name calling.

Rest is up to you. India is a democratic country and you are free to do what you want.

I will consider your advise. But I just want to say that we Indian members here should avoid discussion on Kashmir with any body except our own nationals. Rest BC MC to chalta rehta hai

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks for the advise.



I will only discuss Kashmir with our Indian members, be it intellectual or anti nationals because it is political issue and our internal matter and not with any Pakistani. What do you say?

There is no harm in discussing the issue with anyone in the world who is prepared not to be emotive or to lose his or her temper over it. Whether the other person is Pakistani or not is not of the first relevance, because, as you have just stated, it is our internal matter, at root. So until the other person throws a fit, let us keep talking.

 

[el che]

To the bold part, well you have given so called SPECIAL status to Kashmir for what reason? Are rest of the Indians less special? Or Let people in Arunachal also demand freedom and only then our lazy Govt will give them special status. You forget that they are contributing more towards India than Looters sitting in Srinagar.

I don't even involve Pakistan when talking about Kashmir. It is our govt failed policy. Do jootey maro in Kashmirio ko sari Kashmiriyat and Insaniyat ajayegi bahar.

These kashmirs are headache. Treat them harshly!! They are looting our country. Remove 370 and send brutal forces. Pakistan is more sane than our idiots sitting in parliament.

We have given extra appeasement to Kashmiris. Money education special status all oppurtunities just to counter Pak. And it has failed.

We are giving wrong message to other people that we will only care about you if you try to separate from us. Just give all the freedom to army and stop sppeasing the fake Insaniyat type people.

The bolded part is the reality that culturally north east is different. Arunachal is looked after well to the best of India's ability. You don't see separatist movement there because not only is Arunachal has special status but also require inner line permit to even enter that state. There is no income tax, less excise duty, more financial assistance for the state. Rampant corruption in the north east by state governments is also hindering development there. I also appreciate the Chinese for peace in Indo China border. Not a single bullet has been fired since 1962. The special states of some state is debatable and is a separate discussion.

The problem with Kashmir is the ungrateful attitude, separatist mindset and pro Pakistan attitude inspite of the efforts of Indian govt. So atleast these 6 districts should not enjoy the privileges. These should form a separate state and be stripped of all the facilities. Then probably they will realise the efforts of Indian govt.

 

[freeskylord]

There is no harm in discussing the issue with anyone in the world who is prepared not to be emotive or to lose his or her temper over it. Whether the other person is Pakistani or not is not of the first relevance, because, as you have just stated, it is our internal matter, at root. So until the other person throws a fit, let us keep talking.

Talking to a Pakistani on Kashmir is unproductive and why should I talk about my territory with a foreigner whether it belong me or him? Doesn't sound well. I don't take Our Valley as disputed.

We can discuss ourselves how to move on from this issue. Apart from infiltertions which our brave soldiers are keeping check etc. most of the current situation is due to our bad policies. We have given them too much this is the biggest problem.

The bolded part is the reality that culturally north east is different. Arunachal is looked after well to the best of India's ability. You don't see separatist movement there because not only is Arunachal has special status but also require inner line permit to even enter that state. There is no income tax, less excise duty, more financial assistance for the state. Rampant corruption in the north east by state governments is also hindering development there. I also appreciate the Chinese for peace in Indo China border. Not a single bullet has been fired since 1962. The special states of some state is debatable and is a separate discussion.

The problem with Kashmir is the ungrateful attitude, separatist mindset and pro Pakistan attitude inspite of the efforts of Indian govt. So atleast these 6 districts should not enjoy the privileges. These should form a separate state and be stripped of all the facilities. Then probably they will realise the efforts of Indian govt.

Culture different can be found throughout India. This doesn't make only one specific culture a special and more lucerative or important.

Corruption prevails througout India , NE has more, but they have more social ethics than Kashmiris. They should be our first priority. We are investing very little there. Because they have agreed to stay with us? Shame!!

These Kashmiris are clever people. They are getting brilliant oppurtunities, they have fertile land there. And instead of producing revenues these over pampered people are now sitting on our head. And also do not want to integrate. In movies in poetry every where we have given them a lot of importance and showed them aristrocratic. Now this is the reason that even if a Kashmiris is slapped, these people run from delhi to pamper him. bs!

We should stop making excuse of Pakistan. They will open another front if today Kashmir is even snatched from them. It's in their blood to hurt India. Be it in Kashmir or Punjab, or UP via riots. They will play proxy to take revenge of 71.

We need to pressurize Govt of India. that try to be practical and not theoratical. And have some motivation. There is no motivation in our government to act fast.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Talking to a Pakistani on Kashmir is unproductive and why should I talk about my territory with a foreigner whether it belong me or him? Doesn't sound well. I don't take Our Valley as disputed.

We can discuss ourselves how to move on from this issue. Apart from infiltertions which our brave soldiers are keeping check etc. most of the current situation is due to our bad policies. We have given them too much this is the biggest problem.

That is not the point.

It is your duty, as it was my duty when I was an active member, to point out mistakes in fact and in appreciation that someone else makes. There are numerous instances; for instance, over the last couple of days, someone pointed to the exclusionary clause in the preamble to the Indian Penal Code document, that the Code did not apply to the state of J&K, to establish that even Indian constitutional documents acknowledge that the State is not part of India.

We have the choice of sulking and refusing to engage with those who are genuinely wrong as well as those who are inadvertently mistaken, or educating ourselves about the facts and presenting them without passion and with complete detachment, persisting in the presentation until all the objections are met and countered. We generally choose to sulk because most of us are uneducated ourselves, and are too lazy to learn. Sulking and disengaging is not a substitute for presenting our case, not only to the hostile world, but also to the friendly world, and even to ourselves. Merely believing that Kashmir is Indian as an article of faith is very shallow and childish, UNLESS one knows why this should be so. And if one knows, then to present the facts when required, in a clear, polished, well-structured manner, can never harm.

You talk about bad policies. Have you any idea what these policies are? And what they have been?

 

[freeskylord]

That is not the point.

It is your duty, as it was my duty when I was an active member, to point out mistakes in fact and in appreciation that someone else makes. There are numerous instances; for instance, over the last couple of days, someone pointed to the exclusionary clause in the preamble to the Indian Penal Code document, that the Code did not apply to the state of J&K, to establish that even Indian constitutional documents acknowledge that the State is not part of India.

We have the choice of sulking and refusing to engage with those who are genuinely wrong as well as those who are inadvertently mistaken, or educating ourselves about the facts and presenting them without passion and with complete detachment, persisting in the presentation until all the objections are met and countered. We generally choose to sulk because most of us are uneducated ourselves, and are too lazy to learn. Sulking and disengaging is not a substitute for presenting our case, not only to the hostile world, but also to the friendly world, and even to ourselves. Merely believing that Kashmir is Indian as an article of faith is very shallow and childish, UNLESS one knows why this should be so. And if one knows, then to present the facts when required, in a clear, polished, well-structured manner, can never harm.

You talk about bad policies. Have you any idea what these policies are? And what they have been?

No, I will talk to you at any level on Kashmir, since you are an Indian national ' hope so' but not to a Pakistani. Why? Because I claim whole Jammu and Kashmir as a part of India. There is no second thought that it is not ours. People in that specific valley may have problems but they can continue living like that. Appeasements are limited.

Those who say it is disputed, they may continue with such assumption. The only disputed region is Balochistan! And if documents regarding Balochistan say it is part of Pakistan then I call them fake documents. Just like Pakistanis call Instrument of Accesion fake.

It is matter of one's will and perception. I will not follow Pakistani constitution and whatever is written in pakistani constitution about Jammu and Kashmir. I will follow Indian constitution and if there is somthing in Indian constitution then I can execute my right of freedom of expression to call it wrong! And may ask for ammendments.

Not couple of days ago but since independence policy makers know Ranbir Penal Code applies there which is NOT a part of any Sharia and so must apply in Pakistani occupied Kashmir. But does Pakistan follow that? No! Then why are Indians worried so much. It is to be ignored.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, I will talk to you at any level on Kashmir, since you are an Indian national ' hope so' but not to a Pakistani. Why? Because I claim whole Jammu and Kashmir as a part of India. There is no second thought that it is not ours. People in that specific valley may have problems but they can continue living like that. Appeasements are limited.

Those who say it is disputed, they may continue with such assumption. The only disputed region is Balochistan! And if documents regarding Balochistan say it is part of Pakistan then I call them fake documents. Just like Pakistanis call Instrument of Accesion fake.

It is matter of one's will and perception. I will not follow Pakistani constitution and whatever is written in pakistani constitution about Jammu and Kashmir. I will follow Indian constitution and if there is somthing in Indian constitution then I can execute my right of freedom of expression to call it wrong! And may ask for ammendments.

Not couple of days ago but since independence policy makers know Ranbir Penal Code applies there which is NOT a part of any Sharia and so must apply in Pakistani occupied Kashmir. But does Pakistan follow that? No! Then why are Indians worried so much. It is to be ignored.

It is entirely up to you what you do.

Your claim is not the point; why you do so is the point, and it has to be communicated, without tiring. And making the basis for a claim clear does not amount to agreeing that the claim is disputed. And instead of tit-for-tat answers, you should point out clearly why something is not realistic, or cannot be accepted. Not by playing kindergarten games. It has nothing to do with will and perception. It has nothing to do with the Pakistani constitution. It has something to do with the Indian constitution, and of course, you and every other Indian citizen has the right to seek amendments. Whether those are legally possible or not is a different matter; standing and shouting for impossible things to happen is guaranteed to us by the right of free speech.

You ignored the question at the end of my post. No doubt you will ignore this inconvenient one also: who told you that the Ranbir Code is not followed in Pakistan administered Kashmir, and that sharia law is followed?

So far you do not seem to have much to say of any relevance.

 

[freeskylord]

It is entirely up to you what you do.

Your claim is not the point; why you do so is the point, and it has to be communicated, without tiring. And making the basis for a claim clear does not amount to agreeing that the claim is disputed. And instead of tit-for-tat answers, you should point out clearly why something is not realistic, or cannot be accepted. Not by playing kindergarten games. It has nothing to do with will and perception. It has nothing to do with the Pakistani constitution. It has something to do with the Indian constitution, and of course, you and every other Indian citizen has the right to seek amendments. Whether those are legally possible or not is a different matter; standing and shouting for impossible things to happen is guaranteed to us by the right of free speech.

You ignored the question at the end of my post. No doubt you will ignore this inconvenient one also: who told you that the Ranbir Code is not followed in Pakistan administered Kashmir, and that sharia law is followed?

So far you do not seem to have much to say of any relevance.

Actually it is my say what majority wants.

But our weak government cares so much for the looters in the valley who have been looting India and we are fools who are all the time giving much attention to them. Vote bank policy.

The current scenario is our forces shot 70 of such trouble makers in the valley and will rise for sure. This will continue.
At a point people will stop giving attention to their shout. AFSPA will remain because there is trouble and law breakers.

Coming to constitution well it is a never ending debate. Our constitution is itself old and requires 100's of ammendments. If we have thought about constitution and gone by the book to seek what is right & what is wrong in 1971 we would have never been able to separate B'desh!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Actually it is my say what majority wants.

But our weak government cares so much for the looters in the valley who have been looting India and we are fools who are all the time giving much attention to them. Vote bank policy.

The current scenario is our forces shot 70 of such trouble makers in the valley and will rise for sure. This will continue.
At a point people will stop giving attention to their shout. AFSPA will remain!!

Coming to constitution well it is a never ending debate. Our constitution is itself old and requires 100's of ammendments. If we have thought about constitution and gone by the book to seek what is right & what is wrong in 1971 we would have never been able to separate B'desh!

1. It is entirely up to you. If you wish to be in the categories of the Shouting Squad, feel free.
2. You ignored the last question, as it is rapidly becoming your habit to do with awkward situations.
3. Would you like to explain your statement (in red, above)?

 

[freeskylord]

1. It is entirely up to you. If you wish to be in the categories of the Shouting Squad, feel free.
2. You ignored the last question, as it is rapidly becoming your habit to do with awkward situations.
3. Would you like to explain your statement (in red, above)?

1. I am just trying to bring the mendate into light. PM Modi represents the mendate. Our forces are given power in the valley and they will do whatever possible to contain the separatists.


2. The last question is of no worth. Why because the previous policies have failed. What was previous policies? You know it, and it been shown on news, have been written in many books. As I told earlier, GoI has been appeasing the Kashmiris, given them a lot of pampering since ages. I have posted this almost 5 times that we should stop giving them much of the attention and treating them like extra special people from heaven. This Kashmiriyat Insaniyat is too bookish. People in valley have been misuing this special status. They have fertile land, good crop of saffron and apple , wallnuts good communication facilities, transport facilities medical facilities. They should make it a better place. But the jehadi mindset in Kashmir is not a kashmiri culture. Every time something happens there whole of the media is diverted to Kashmir. And when something happens in Otherstates, no gives a damn. Why so much attention? Just because they are demanding separate state? Oh well if they are demanding that then least attention must be given. And let Kashmiris face the isolation. Our brave forces are there to handle. But Govt. policy is give them money, give them education, give them 370. and in return get stones.

3. The statement in red has the same interpretation what PM Modi said in Bangldesh about Mukti Vahani and also from the Red fort as we sympathises with Balochis and Pak occupied Kashmiris and people from GB.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. I am just trying to bring the mendate into light. PM Modi represents the mendate. Our forces are given power in the valley and they will do whatever possible to contain the separatists.


2. The last question is of no worth. Why because the previous policies have failed. What was previous policies? You know it, and it been shown on news, have been written in many books. As I told earlier, GoI has been appeasing the Kashmiris, given them a lot of pampering since ages. I have posted this almost 5 times that we should stop giving them much of the attention and treating them like extra special people from heaven. This Kashmiriyat Insaniyat is too bookish. People in valley have been misuing this special status. They have fertile land, good crop of saffron and apple , wallnuts good communication facilities, transport facilities medical facilities. They should make it a better place. But the jehadi mindset in Kashmir is not a kashmiri culture. Every time something happens there whole of the media is diverted to Kashmir. And when something happens in Otherstates, no gives a damn. Why so much attention? Just because they are demanding separate state? Oh well if they are demanding that then least attention must be given. And let Kashmiris face the isolation. Our brave forces are there to handle. But Govt. policy is give them money, give them education, give them 370. and in return get stones.

3. The statement in red has the same interpretation what PM Modi said in Bangldesh about Mukti Vahani and also from the Red fort as we sympathises with Balochis and Pak occupied Kashmiris and people from GB.

Thank you.

You are now well understood, and your scope of thought is clear. No more questions required.