Offtopic post from SS thread.

[asaad-ul-islam]

this is a more "solid" hadith I know, it was confirmed by a scholar, Yusuf al-Qaradawi

In a gathering at which 'Umar was present, someone remarked, "Some say that coitus interruptus is a minor form of burying a child alive." 'Ali then said, "This is not so before the completion of seven stages: being a product of the earth, then a drop of semen, then a clot, then a little lump of tissue, then bones, then bones clothed with flesh, which then become like another creation."

"You are right," said 'Umar. "May Allah prolong your life."

Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim.

P.S: don't ask me arrogantly to prove hadith, I certainly know more than you do. I also know how to read and comprehend, something which seems to be out of grasp for non-muslims. I've come to realize that non-muslims just can't intepret hadith or even Qur'anic ayahs for that matter. they need to be able to see the whole picture of islam before passing judgement, which they obviously can't see since they haven't practiced.

 

[Vinod2070]

this is a more "solid" hadith I know, it was confirmed by a scholar, Yusuf al-Qaradawi

In a gathering at which 'Umar was present, someone remarked, "Some say that coitus interruptus is a minor form of burying a child alive." 'Ali then said, "This is not so before the completion of seven stages: being a product of the earth, then a drop of semen, then a clot, then a little lump of tissue, then bones, then bones clothed with flesh, which then become like another creation."

"You are right," said 'Umar. "May Allah prolong your life."

Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim.

P.S: don't ask me arrogantly to prove hadith, I certainly know more than you do. I also know how to read and comprehend, something which seems to be out of grasp for non-muslims. I've come to realize that non-muslims just can't intepret hadith or even Qur'anic ayahs for that matter. they need to be able to see the whole picture of islam before passing judgement, which they obviously can't see since they haven't practiced.

This is a totally separate Hadhith! Nothing to do with the one I posted.

You may surely know more than me about Hadhith and Islam in general. I can't deny that. This doesn't mean that one can't read clear English!

Your claim that non-Muslims can't understand the Hadhith or Quranic verses is absurd imho. The Quran is supposed to be simple to understand. It claims so itself!

 

[Bane Blade]

Good lord you guys I ask you for books and you keep on raving about religion between a religion that is against fornification and one where some bloke had 1000 wives or another bloke who shared his wife and then lost her in gambling is that all religion is about atleast practice it fully then argue and bicker.

I WILL APPEAL FOR THE LAST TIME TO PLEASE GIVE ME BOOK TITLES YOU CAN CONTINUE YOUR FIGHT IF YOU WANT TO THOUGH I HARDLY COULD CARE LESS BUT DO GIVE ME GOOD TITLES PLEASE

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

This is a totally separate Hadhith! Nothing to do with the one I posted.

and, what did I say about the hadith you posted?

You may surely know more than me about Hadhith and Islam in general. I can't deny that. This doesn't mean that one can't read clear English!
Your claim that non-Muslims can't understand the Hadhith or Quranic verses is absurd imho. The Quran is supposed to be simple to understand. It claims so itself!

as far as we know here, the Qur'an was revealed in arabic, therefore it is simple for us to understand in arabic. Yet, that does not mean we can easily interpret it in the context of other islamic rulings. there are two types of verses, Muhkamat and Mutashabihat. Muhkamat meaning judgements, decisions and in technical language it refers to clearly decided verses of the Qur'an, mostly those concerning legal rulings, but also to other clear definitions such as between truth and falsehood etc. These verses are simple for us to understand, because these are obvious.

Mutashabihat, in technical language it refers to those verses of the Qur'an the meanings of which are not clear or not completely agreed upon, but open to two or more interpretations. to a non-muslim, this would obviously be confusing, which is why christians brought up the verse of the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an in their debate against the Prophet SAWS.

aside from the arguments that the Qur'an is simple to understand or not, I believe we are arguing about ahadith in general, and when it comes to ahadith, the same cannot be said regarding interpretation. There are numerous false ahadith that still haven't been weeded out yet, most likely because of the lack of concensus between the scholars-i.e, back then during the hadith collection era, disagreements and differences were not as common as they are now.

Hadith are not that simple for us to understand, they have to interpreted within the context of the entire religion. One must have comprehensive knowledge of the 'deen', he or she must command that knowledge to rightfully interpret hadith. This is why we have scholars, the 'ulema' in Islam, otherwise known as and degraded as "mullahs" in the sub-continent. it doesn't end there, scholars must be specialized in certain areas if they are to focus in depth on a certain subject. I can go a lot more further, but I think our discussion should end here for timesake.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think our discussion should end here for timesake.

I agree with that.

 

[qsaark]

As far as sex with captured women and slave girl is concerned, I (to the best of my understanding) have no doubt that Quran and Haidth allowed it. Those women whom "thy right hand possess" are slaves who do not have the same rights as the free women. However, It is also important to remember that we are talking about the world of 1500 years ago. These things (war booty, male and female prisoners) were common not only among the Arabs (Muslim or non-Muslim) but also among the rest of the world. In those days, there did not exist something like Geneva Convention. Norms of those days are no longer acceptable today. I do however, find it true that even though the Prophet (PBUH) and his disciples freed slaves and encouraged other Muslims to do the same, they did not prohibit slavery.

 

[Vinod2070]

You are missing the point.

Just get rid of the "norm of the times" thing if you claim Islam to be a religion for all people and for all times!

Where is the mercy? Where is the respect for women here? You agree with slavery? Sexual relations with female slaves? To be perpetuated for all times to come because it is something that is ordained by the divine and not to be overridden by mere human beings!

I also don't necessarily agree with the "norm of the times" idea anyway. It was never heard of in India. May be in some of the more harsh places, it was that.

 

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