Of Pakistan, Terrorism, and Confusion

[The Patriot]

I am starting this new thread to discuss the overall situation vis-a-vis terrorism that has engulfed Pakistan these days. Few things come to my mind:

1. Most of us say that this war on terror has been imposed upon us by the US so it is not our war. Others say that its our war now as Taliban are targeting Pakistani troops and people. If it is not our war, then there are some questions to be answered. Are we mercenaries and killing our own brothers because the US will bomb us to the stone age. If its not our own war how would we justify it to the public and how would we fire on Taliban. How could we say that Taliban are not right. But if its our war then why we ask help from the US. Why we say we are doing a ‘favor’ to the world by targeting the Taliban. If they are our problem why should we cry. In other words, we recognize that Taliban are threat to the world too. It would mean that Taliban or TTP in Pakistan are not only threat to Pakistan but to the world. But then again we say that TTP is only targeting Pakistanis and not going to Afghanistan. And its agenda is to take over or destroy Pakistan. We also say that US spending billions of dollars in Afghanistan for war but gives us very little. What does this mean? Again are we fighting the US war.

2. Trust deficit: America thinks that we consider TTP as enemy and harbor Afghan Taliban and al Qaeda. Thus we are playing double game. We think the US supports TTP and targets Afghan Taliban. Having said that, what are we doing on our front to prove the US wrong and ourselves right. The US blames us for the safe haven in our territory. How could we deny that when we don’t have control over certain parts of FATA? Or what evidences we have that the US is supporting TTP. Why don’t we confront them with evidences? Or make our borders safe so that no infiltration occurs from the Afghan side.

3. Afghan Taliban vs. TTP. Most of us also believe that Afghan Taliban are separate and they do not mess with Pakistan. But we hardly see any ideological difference between them and TTP. Both use the same tactics. They have the same ideology. Both enforce their version of Islam by force on others. Both run Shariat courts, both are against women’s education. Both hate America. Both have the same skills of making IEDs, suicide jackets, propaganda movies etc. What difference will it make for would-be “jihadi” to join either Afghan Taliban or TTP. If they are so close ideologically why won’t they support each other. Or if TTP is bad because it targets Pakistanis what would be our moral justification for what Afghan Taliban are doing in Afghanistan. Do we like Afghan Taliban because they are fighting foreign forces, irrespective of its ideology? What will happen when Taliban force foreigners out of Afghanistan. How would Pakistan form its foreign policy then? Will we recognize them? If that’s the case, then why don’t we like TTP for Pakistan? Or if we do not recognize them will we not make them our adversary.

4. We hate drone attacks. Condemn them. We believe drones violate our territorial sovereignty and kill innocent people which bears negative effects on our war on terror. We also say that the US is not targeting TTP but other targets like al Qaeda, Afghan Taliban etc. But when drones take out Baitullah, we take the credit and start dancing. It means we are providing them ground or human intelligence and there is coordination between Pakistan and the US on drone attacks.

5. Some of us also say lets talk to them which we did so many times and the result we are seeing today. They got organized and more lethal. What shall we talk to them?

6. Some of us also claim that TTP is getting support from the US, India and Israel to destabilize Pakistan and ultimately disarm Pakistan from nukes. Here we imply that the US distinguishes between TTP and Afghan Taliban. How would the US or CIA feed the people whose only justification for violence is based on Anti-Americanism. Why is the US giving Pakistan aid for nuclear safety and defense if its wants too denuclearize Pakistan?

7. We are doing operation in SW where TTP is based but have peace deal with the Taliban of NW like Mullah Nazir and Gul Bahadur who do not want to fight Pakistan and instead cross the border to Afghanistan to fight against the US. Why are we allowing them to use our soil against any country? And at the same time we have agreements with the US to fight the “war on terror”. According to international law, any country which allows its territory be used against any country is complicit in the attack and thus can be held responsible even for non-state actors. In that case, how would we object if the US and NATO retaliate against these non-state actors. They have this legal right.

8. We convinced our people about Jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan in 80s and 90s. Then we banned them all in 2002. Then they resurfaced with different names. We didn’t do anything for their rehabilitation. How would you convince an ex-jihadi that what he was doing before 2002 was the right jihad and today it is not? To him, will that date matter. If you do not allow him for jihad abroad what would he think of you? Probably not a friend. What are we doing on this front?

9. We need aid for our economy because we fail to manage it. But we do not accept conditions. Then there is series of propaganda on the media where civilian governments are demonized and termed as stooges of the US. This what TTP says. Aren’t we unknowingly justify what TTP says.

There are many other things which I couldn’t add here. To me, it indicates total confusion. We do not have clear policies, internal and foreign, to deal with the situation. This chaos is creating frustration among the public who would want to know why they are getting killed. I wrote this because I can’t stand this bloodbath any more. I feel that I am being cut piece by piece by every innocent killed in terrorism. These are the observations of an ordinary Pakistani. I am not a very learned man but I hope some experts here will guide us.

Thanks for your time.

 

[New Shivaji]

Very good analysis by The Patriot about the confused state of pakistan.

 

[Bill Longley]

hmmm

NEW SHAHABUDDIN GHOORI

 

[Balance]

War on terror and the role of GoP

As Patriot has said, there is confusion within Pakistani people. This is really odd. If we take a look in the history, we see that whenever a war strikes a nation, the citizens of that nation unite irrespective of their internal issues. This is the real strength of a nation.

But what we see here? The govt under Mr Zardari has failed regularly in psychological and media warfare. We witnessd that at the time of Mumbai attack, then in handeling the drone issue and we are witnessing the same now. Whatever is the problem, GoP is never clear on its stand.

When drone attacks took place, GoP condemned them. But if those were not permitted, wasn't it the responsibility of GoP to try and stop them? But they did nothing on that front. It would have been better if they would have come with some explaination and supported these attacks, if they could not stop them. I mean, it was the logical thing to do.

Even now, we see same mistakes being repeated. I was expecting the Pakistani newspapers to be full of some patriotic and confidance building statements from the leaders. It may look like a propaganda, but the people must be saved from being confused. PA is trying to win the war already lost by GoP. It's a shame when half of your population supports your enemy.

Regards, Balance.

 

[waraich66]

Pakistan was created to provide Islamic welfare state to non muslim minorities and muslims of sub continent but unfortunately we could not complete dream of Iqbal and Jinnah .

Terrorism is resultant of corruption,injustice and poverty , Army could not control the terrorism or insurgency untill we develop a system backed by general public to eliminate corruption ,injustic and poverty from society.

Presently US is making our policy and counter insurgency strategy , we need to motivate nation to take charge and control and fight against insurgency and terrorism , i think we are moving towards the direction when public will take charge of all national institutions ,safety and security .

All political party leaders and police officers are hidding in Islamabad due to fear in this satuation general public and army joint efforts will be more effective.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Terrorism is resultant of corruption,injustice and poverty , Army could not control the terrorism or insurgency untill we develop a system backed by general public to eliminate corruption ,injustic and poverty from society.

The biggest myth of them all! This is a sign of the confusion Patriot alludes to.

In reality, terrorism in our backyard is an outcome of two trends.

1. Firstly, the state pursued a misguided policy for 25 years that encouraged the use of mercenary jihadis infused with a pseudo religious ideology to achieve geopolitical goals.

2. Secondly, when the state started turning its back on regional jihad after 2001, the jihadi network jilted and increasingly frustrated, gradually turned its guns on its old master.

Poverty and corruption does create an environment of weak governance, which has helped the jihadi network challenge the writ of the state.

However, the Jihadi/TTP network has never had any interest in fighting poverty and corruption.

After all, there was poverty, injustice and extreme corruption throughout the 90s...why did'nt the jihadi network take up the cause then???

 

[waraich66]

After all, there was poverty, injustice and extreme corruption throughout the 90s...why did'nt the jihadi network take up the cause then???

Jehadi network was under ground and spreading like lava inside the earth , corruption and injustice in society actually helped terrorism to fill the vacume.

Easiest way to control the fire is to suke the air near the source of fire .

Presently corrupt and injustice environment in country is helping terrorism to spread in areas where poverty level ,corruption and injustice are very high.

Somalia ,Afghanistan are most recent examples for us to understand.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Jehadi network was under ground and spreading like lava inside the earth , corruption and injustice in society actually helped terrorism to fill the vacume.

Easiest way to control the fire is to suke the air near the source of fire .

.

A far as I can tell, the 'air near the source' of the fire is the funding, ideological indoctrination, and till a few years ago, the benevolent attitude of the military establishment towards the jihadi terrorists.

Of course, the poverty and corruption does help the TTP and other terrorists promote their propaganda in their attempts to topple the government, but it is NOT THE REASON behind the terrorism.

 

[waraich66]

A far as I can tell, the 'air near the source' of the fire is the funding, ideological indoctrination, and till a few years ago, the benevolent attitude of the military establishment towards the jihadi terrorists.

Of course, the poverty and corruption does help the TTP and other terrorists promote their propaganda in their attempts to topple the government, but it is NOT the reason behind the terrorism.

Terrorism in FATA is more complex ,international terrorism AQ cells are active here , which is more dangrous satuation.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

DAWN

There’s some mighty disconnect between what is happening in our cities today and what we are not doing to stop it, as one more landmark in what is now the blighted Rawalpindi Cantonment is targeted by terrorists.

The Shalimar Hotel, just off The Mall, is the more earthly twin of the glitzy Pearl Continental located across the road, which skirts off to the General Headquarters, the Combined Military Hospital, the fabled Lal Kurti Bazaar, and on to the once high-profile Harley Street. In the opposite direction, just across The Mall sits the old presidency building, now a women’s university, and as such another high-profile target. Going west on The Mall is also the Flashman’s Hotel, another city landmark, located at a stone’s throw from the Shalimar. If this heart of the garrison headquarter city is not safe from terror attacks, then you may well ask what is? And what is Pindi Cantonment coming to?

Amidst all the mayhem that is being wrought on this once peaceful and serene neighbourhood, it is pertinent to ask what the residents must be feeling. The cantonment is also home to a number of ace educational institutions, which now apparently lie in a war zone. How are the parents of schoolchildren coping with these spectacles of horror that are so wily menacing?

This is the fourth deadly assault on the twin cities since Oct 5 last month, when the UN-affiliated food organisation’s offices were attacked in Islamabad killing five people, including a foreign national. Then came the daring, 24-hour siege of the army headquarters in Pindi on Oct 10-11, which left 20 dead. Terrorists claimed another eight lives on Oct 20 when an Islamic university was attacked in Islamabad.

Peshawar has for long been in the bull’s eye because it is more accessible to terrorists emanating from the adjacent tribal areas. Lahore, too, has borne the brunt of suicide bombings and sieges by terrorists. Yet Pindi and Islamabad stand apart for their targeting. The twin cities are home to the government of Pakistan and the armed forces’ top brass. We must also not forget that the twin cities are also home to the slighted Lal Masjid brigade of the July 2007 military operation fame, and its avowed, young and brainwashed breed of suicide bombers, who were let go of rather nonchalantly, along with their burqa-clad mentor, the firebrand cleric Abdul Aziz. The killer cleric continues to enjoy the sympathy of the reasonably powerful in the capital and beyond.

Still, it would be unfair to point the finger at just one misguided madrassah and its brand of fanatics who have a history of nurturing extremists — and getting away with it. Blame should also be assigned to their known well-wishers who bailed them out in the aftermath of the Lal Masjid operation. Remember Chaudhry Shujaat offering the mullah and his supporters more than a shoulder to cry on? The PML-Q, then the ruling party, its chief and his cousin Pervaiz Elahi, who was then the chief minister of Punjab, gave what they called the ‘victims’ of Lal Masjid life-long scholarships and sustenance allowances, ostensibly from their own pockets. One of their deputies, Sheikh Rashid, the proud son of Rawalpindi, kept mum on the whole issue even though he bore his total allegiance to General Musharraf who had ordered the storming of Lal Masjid.

A few weeks and a number of court hearings later, even the cleric Abdul Aziz was released on bail, when he should have been tried under a military court and dispensed speedy justice on the basis of his hate-mongering and waging war against the state that resulted in the killing of many.

But not all rot lies in the bad past over which Musharraf presided. The media’s role by and large remains sympathetic towards an ideology which continues to bring death and destruction to our cities. Analysts and TV anchors don’t tire of voicing their favourite solution of offering the extremists dialogue instead of the bullet to end their killing spree. The media also continues to insist this is not our war — not even just yet. Their defiant heroes remain politicians like Imran Khan and leaders of the Jamaat-i-Islami who have now vowed to raise no less than a ‘lashkar’ to oppose the National Reconciliation Ordinance in the streets of Pakistan if extremists’ violence allows them to do so.

Then there is Nawaz Sharif and his PML-N lackeys on the other hand: no word of unqualified condemnation of terrorists ever crosses their lips. As for the PPP, there is now little to stop the ‘relief’ that its broad-based NRO in its existing, amended form, promises to all killers and crooks, including the terrorists, despite the fact that they have their booby traps and suicide bombers killing innocent people in our cities and hardcore, armed terrorists fighting the army in Fata. Is there any sense left anymore in what we are doing to ourselves?

As Rawlpindi, Islamabad, Peshawar, and Lahore simmer with fear and tension, and Karachi and Quetta watch in disgust, bracing themselves to be the next potential targets, internecine, petty politics is all our leaders have time for. The biggest culprit present among us today is the lingering and shocking state of denial, despite the presence of the evil amidst us that is killing and maiming as many as it can on a given day.

American aid, the NRO, the street protest, the call for a mid-term election, even the crippling power and economic crisis can wait. What cannot wait for the public backing expressed through their leaders is the war on terror that is being fought in our cities today. This is a war we cannot afford to lose; it’s time we owned and fought it with full power of the state and the people behind it. After all, lofty, elusive ideals like democracy and rule of law cannot be safeguarded or held dear by doing nothing to stop the death and destruction that is all around us today.

Murtaza Razvi is Editor, Magazines, of Dawn.

 

[The Patriot]

Terrorism is resultant of corruption,injustice and poverty , Army could not control the terrorism or insurgency untill we develop a system backed by general public to eliminate corruption ,injustic and poverty from society.

This thesis of poverty being the cause of terrorism is beyond my comprehension. If poverty, injustice and corruption was the problem then TTP would have these things on top on their agenda. i hardly see any terrorism in any part of the world which is the result of poverty. they are either, religious, ethnic or political.
there are many parts of the world which are extremely poor even poorer than our FATA areas but they do not resort to terrorism.
but i agree that such conditions provide a fertile ground for terrorists to get recruits.

 

[SecularHumanist]

Terrorism is resultant of corruption,injustice and poverty , Army could not control the terrorism or insurgency untill we develop a system backed by general public to eliminate corruption ,injustic and poverty from society.

Remember that there is a global jihad going on. If we look at terrorism beyond Pakistan what do we see? Is the Islamic terrorism that is going on a global scale all because of these same reasons that you have listed?

How poor is Osama Bin Laden? Mohammad Atta had a graduate degree. Among Palestinian suicide bombers, the older and better educated are assigned targets in big cities. We have numerous examples of educated terrorists that weren't poverty stricken. This throws out the theory of lack of education, poverty, and injustice being the reason for terrorism.

Terrorism is the result of the belief in martyrdom, fighting for Allah's Islamic law, and rewards in the afterlife. In addition, they all seem to love infidel and munafiq killing. It is based on faith. As long as death is more beautiful than this life for some muslims, there will be terrorists. They simply 'know' they are going to a better place, meaning that they are going to heaven, getting virgins, and other eternal rewards. The irony of it all is that the most sexually repressed people in the world (Islamists) are lured by sex in the afterlife

 

[S-2]

My congratulations to you.

Your exposition was beautifully constructed, elegantly simple, and powerfully clear. I wish that I'd written such but am glad that it was, instead, you. The logic was indisputable to reasoned and thoughtful readers. There is nothing left to add but my sincere admiration.

Again, congratulations and thank you.

 

[MilesTogo]

No laughing matter - sex and good life - can make a dent in terror recruitment.

Remember that there is a global jihad going on. If we look at terrorism beyond Pakistan what do we see? Is the Islamic terrorism that is going on a global scale all because of these same reasons that you have listed?

How poor is Osama Bin Laden? Mohammad Atta had a graduate degree. Among Palestinian suicide bombers, the older and better educated are assigned targets in big cities. We have numerous examples of educated terrorists that weren't poverty stricken. This throws out the theory of lack of education, poverty, and injustice being the reason for terrorism.

Terrorism is the result of the belief in martyrdom, fighting for Allah's Islamic law, and rewards in the afterlife. In addition, they all seem to love infidel and munafiq killing. It is based on faith. As long as death is more beautiful than this life for some muslims, there will be terrorists. They simply 'know' they are going to a better place, meaning that they are going to heaven, getting virgins, and other eternal rewards. The irony of it all is that the most sexually repressed people in the world (Islamists) are lured by sex in the afterlife

 

[Slides]

Jehadi network was under ground and spreading like lava inside the earth , corruption and injustice in society actually helped terrorism to fill the vacume.

Easiest way to control the fire is to suke the air near the source of fire .

Presently corrupt and injustice environment in country is helping terrorism to spread in areas where poverty level ,corruption and injustice are very high.

Somalia ,Afghanistan are most recent examples for us to understand.

You are still stuck on poverty when it has already been proven that poverty alone is not the cause of jihadi tendency to blow themselves up. Poverty is something USED by jihadi nutcases to promote their hideous agenda. The cause is jihadi mullahs.

If poverty was the cause, interior Sindh and coastal Balochistan would be the real hotbed of jihadi terrorism, but that is hardly the case.

Another one of your arguments falls flat on its face.