[Obama's visit] Why India's realty scam should interest President Obama

[karan.1970]

Why think about them in isolation? You can say what you want to about him saying this and not something worse, but we've heard it so often now that these things are pretty much irrelevant now. It's almost like it didn't happen.

And that is the sad part. Thats what the world considers you.. Make what you may of that..

 

[Peshwa]

Dude, i dont speak for my countrymen, i do it for myself.

What i said was based on the first 17 posts of this thread which were rants, yaps and blind denial by your COUNTRYMEN!

Now the way i see you defending them i am indeed compelled to believe that you no more are guud than any other indian ranter around here.


BTW, what did you people say about the vid where Kashmiris were made to walk naked even before announcing an investigation? May be i should quote more, right?

Your exact quote below.....

Very quick to distance yourself from your countrymen eh.....

So then why criticize Indians as a whole claiming we cant "take criticism" when your lot is very well the same?

My problem is with you painting all with the same brush....Simple!

If you want to club all Indian opinions as that of a homogenous group, then be ready to be clubbed with the many senseless neanderthals present on your side as well..

What surprises me is that none of the indian members can kill the message in the article but can kill the messenger at will.

How impressive.

Man, you cant take criticism, can you?

Dont you dare think of trying being a smarta$$ with me.

Please save your threats for someone who cares....arent we all goliaths behind our computer screens....

P.S. i would like you to quote me countering an article with hilarious rants (and not logic) as being done by you and your likes around here.

I dont need to....The comment I replied to wasnt think tank worthy....
you should know better than to generalize!
I have proved my point while also exposing your hypocrisy!

PS: The messenger does deserve to be criticized....especially keeping in mind that he is relating an Indian internal matter, a case of corrupt officials (not an Indian policy but the work of individuals) to an issue completely unrelated or affecting the matter in any way.....

So, in those terms the actions of PA officials and ISI (retd or presently active) being involved in international plots and also keeping relations with the Taliban.... should also be investigated....since it shows an alarming trend of members of the PA turning "fanatics...

Both cases are those of internal matter of the PA and IA......except in the case of the latter, Obama has no criteria since it hardly affects his nation.....which happens to be the crux of the article and what the author is implying....
Im fine with discussing corruption in the IA...something Im sure is prevalent...but has no relation wrt Obamas agenda...PERIOD!

 

[karan.1970]

You appear to have convinced yourself, but I think that is the extent to which your argument seems to have been effective. I continue to think that if you feel it is hypocritical for a Pakistani newspaper to publish news of the Indian Army's corruption, then it is far more hypocritical for an Indian newspaper to even print the word "human rights" given what goes on in Kashmir or what has gone on in Gujrat and numerous other places in India. And it is equally hypocritical for Indian newspapers to talk about "terror camps" in Pakistan when the Tamil terrorist movement was trained and funded on Indian soil.

1. Incidents of corruption in Indian Army - Internal matter not concerning Pakistan, whose army is many times more corrupt and has annexed the complete country many times. Hence hypocritical

2. Where is India commenting on Human Rights violations in Pakistan?

3. Terror Camps run by Pakistani Army directly target India and hence are not an internal matter of Pakistan alone. Hence Indian media commenting on it is in no way similar to point 1.

Sri Lanka is not being discussed and I have not commented on Sri Lankan newspapers making any remarks on India. If I do that, call it hypocritical.

Net, point 1 is Pakistan commenting on an internal matter of India despite its record being much worse on the same attribute.

Point 3 is India commenting on an situation inside the borders of Pakistan that allow terrorists to infiltrate into India.

If you still think the 2 are same, then so be it..

I can understand your continued obfuscation, but at least don't pretend you've "shown" anything.

You continued to refer to the article being published in a "Pakistani newspaper" not acknowledging that it was written by an Indian. Now, he may be a "lesser" Indian in your eyes for sharing the facts he shared, but as we discussed earlier, that is your opinion.

Hime being a lesser Indian is your assertion. I have neither said it nor implied it. Putting words in my mouth now??

And when a newpaper publishes an article after purchasing it from the writer, its the newspaper who owns and controls that article. Most of the time, the article goes under the editors blue pen before getting published. Hence its the newpaper which is credited or ridiculed for such pieces and not just the writers. And thats why more people remember the names of the newspaper publishing an article and not the writer who actually wrote it..

As for pots calling kettles black, you mounted the high horse of self righteousness and started chanting "hypocrisy, hypocrisy". I'm afraid far greater hypocrisy is on display in the daily fare from India's news sources.

Again.. your opinion

Chants by definition repeate singular words. If you go through last couple of posts, you will find yourself more prone to that habbit..

Really? The Pakistan Army annexed "the whole area of Pakistan"? Against whose will? Were they fought off by not, 159 million, not 15 million but even by 1 million Pakistanis? After all, according to your media, Pakistanis have no problem taking on armies, whether they are Indian, American or Soviet The truth is that mithai was distributed in the streets at each one of these instances. The most recent one is still fresh in my memory, when Gen. Musharraf replaced Nawaz Sharif. Lahore, which is supposed to be a bastion of support for PML-N, was ecstatic. Folks were out on the streets dancing and celebrating. Mithai stores did phenomenal business.

Lame reasoning to justify an illegal act of land grab. A lot of people in Pakistan are said to have distributed sweets when 3000+ Americans were murdered in a terror strike on 9/11. Did that make that act legal and democratic and acceptable..

You can concoct these ludicrous, form-fit "dictatorship" stories and try to sell them to people who don't have a friggin' clue about this region, but your absolutely nonsensical statements above, and the ludicrous characterization of the Pak Army "annexing" Pakistan is utter hogwash.

You are now simply degenerating the discussion into name calling rants which you incorrectly accused me of earlier.

Again with the "bloodless"? I sketched out the chain of logic for you, but you didn't get it. Sorry, but I am not going to draw you a diagram.

Because there is no diagram in the world that can justify an illegal act of a coup that throws out a democratic govt using force of arms, replacing it with a dictatorship on which people have no control..

Yes, if the bank teller, owners and board members want to hand over the cash to the "robber", then he isn't a robber anymore.

Yes.. Then it is a fraud or a scam since the money belongs to the share holders / owners. The difference being that while the 1st one is a violent crime and second one is white collar one. Both are crimes nonetheless. Same with coups. Whether violent or bloodless, they are both crimes.. Despite whatever spin doctoring you may want to do around them ..

Oh, but I thought Pakistani citizens were supposed to be armed to the teeth? I thought ordinary Pakistani citizens were responsible for fighting the Indian Army in Kashmir, the Americans and Soviets in Afghanistan and God knows who, where else. Where did all these citizens go and where did all the "openly available" arms and ammunition selling in shops all over Pakistan, go?

Huh!?? where did this come from..?? Whether its Mujahids in Afghanistan or LeT etc in Kashmir, they are not normal Pakistani citizens by any strech of imagination. As per assertions of the govts in question, they are highly trained terrorists / militants / insurgents / freedom fighters nurtured and trained by the Pakistani armed forces (the same ones that enforce the coups and annex the whole country) to fight Indian /Soviet/NATO forces in countries around Paksitan. Now since these guys are mentored by the armed forces of Pakistan, they surely wont protest when their aakas take over the control of the country. Gives them even more power. But see, what that more power has done to them. The disciple has outgrown the master..

Drop this one, Karan, unless you are particularly excited at the prospect of being facetious. The vast majority of ordinary people in Pakistan have always supported the Army coming into power. And by the way, the Army has always had a very good idea of popular sentiment. You can call Army takeovers in Pakistan "coups", but unless you change the meaning of the word "democracy" to be something other than "The power of the people", you can't sell these takeovers as anything but reflective of a majority sentiment.

Why doesnt then army puts up a candidate in the elections. It sounds absurd.. I know, but still better than imprisoning/murdering the political leaders and annexing power repeatedly (50% of 62 years of Pakistan's existence)

Another interesting observation. If Pakistani public so loves the military dictators, how come none of retd Pakistani army folks ever reach political leadership positions.

Its the standard mistake Tech.. You mistake the silence of majority being overpowered by a Vociferous minority distributing sweets as popular sentiment. If that was not the case, the population of Pakistan would have not voted in the numbers it did in democratic elections of Pakistan. And niether would have distributed sweets again at ouster of Musharraf..

My country is an immense source of happiness for me... and always will be.

As it should be. But I dont think we are debating the patriotism of Pakistani people here. That is beyond doubt..

With which countries? The Pakistani dialogue with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Japan etc. is completely different from our dialogue with the US, which in turn is quite different from our dialogue with the EU.

Does David Cameron ring a bell??

Since this entire thread is premised on an article written in context of Obama's India visit, let's just go with how Obama characterized Pakistan in response to one of the questions he was asked in Bombay about why Pakistan "is so important an ally to America" [sic]:

Obama said: "Pakistan is an enormous country. It is a strategically important country not just for the US, but for the World. It is a country whose people have enormous potential but it is also a country that has some of the extremist elements present within it. That is not unique to Pakistan. And the Pakistan Government is very well aware of that."

Let me put in the complete statement you refer to and also a subsequent one...

QUESTION: Sir, my question to you is why is Pakistan so important an ally to America, so far as America has never called it a terrorist state?

THE PRESIDENT: Well -- no, no, it's a good question. And I must admit I was expecting it. (Laughter.) Pakistan is an enormous country. It is a strategically important country not just for the United States but for the world. It is a country whose people have enormous potential, but it is also, right now, a country that within it has some of the extremist elements that we discussed in the first question. That's not unique to Pakistan, but obviously it exists in Pakistan.

The Pakistani government is very aware of that. And what we have tried to do over the last several years, certainly -- I'll just speak to my foreign policy -- has been to engage aggressively with the Pakistani government to communicate that we want nothing more than a stable, prosperous, peaceful Pakistan, and that we will work with the Pakistani government in order to eradicate this extremism that we consider a cancer within the country that can potentially engulf the country.


"We will continue to insist to Pakistan's leaders that terrorist safe-havens within their borders are unacceptable, and that the terrorists behind the Mumbai attacks (must) be brought to justice,"
"

"Our strategy to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda and its affiliates has to succeed on both sides of the border. That is why we have worked with the Pakistani government to address the threat of terrorist networks in the border region."

And this goes exactly to my point. Whenever Pakistan is spoken of, whether in good light or bad, the networks of terrorism and extremism within Pakistan is always the 800 pound gorilla in the room..

Yes, as we've clearly established, it came from the rear end of an Indian journalist.

Its interesting that the mainstream newspaper of Pakistan choses to publish articles that come out of the backside of an Indian journalist which no Indian publication finds good enough to use. And before you launch into the chant of press censorship etc.. what he says is in no way worse than what Arundhati Roy said and the Indian papers lapped it up...Brings me to the original point of the credibility of Dawn to comment on Indian internal matters..

It was also a republican president who called the Indian Prime Minister a "*****" and characterized the Indian people using, shall we say, less than civil terms.

So going over 40 years back eh?

You go back long enough if the history and the forefathers of Americans (Democrats or Republicans) ruled both India and Pakistan. Or even going back further, we were all apes. (some of us still are )

But I hope you get the drift. Republicans are known to be more aggressive towards terrorism and are a little less tactful than democrats in handling allies. aka bombing to the stone age call..

See, we shall

By "bombing Pakistani citizens", you mean the US drones based in Pakistan under joint oversight of the Pak-US intel team that is helping take out criminals and terrorists? The same drone strikes for which humint is provided by the ISI?

Thanks for your concern, but I think US help on this front is a good thing.

I dont know whether Pakistani Govt was lying earlier when they protested the drone strikes by NATO forces or are lying now to save some face once NATO has refused to budge from the Drone operations. Either way, the Drone strikes were initiated not at Pakistan's request but as a strategy by NATO to reach the areas where they couldnt go on the ground and where Pakistani Army refused to go to avoid harming their strategic assets aka Afghan Taliban.

But which ever way, as I said in the inital post on this, I would rather have my country paying US for techno goods she buys for civilian / defence use vs. US paying my country for permission to bomb its territory to attack its own citizens (at least most of them), which its army doesn't want to attack because of its own compulsions.

Growth rate from 1990 is on a downward trend??? Wasn't it doing pretty well through 2007?

Not really.. Saw this in another thread. Some interesting points by Foxbat..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...s-higher-gdp-than-pakistan-4.html#post1225039

Please remember that India grew at the "Hindu rate of growth" - the term that economists used to describe slow growth - for decades. A few years of good growth and things appear much better. The same applies to Pakistan or any other economy for that matter. If you were to remove any one of two or three variables, you will see that the real growth rate in Pakistan has been much higher than the 4.3 percent for 2010. (Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily])

For example, the most obvious one is the campaign in Afghanistan (not just US presence, but *campaign*). The other two are the floods and the earthquake. In both cases, acts of God are acts of God and can happen at anytime, anywhere. Other than tabloid jockeys simply trying to get a rise out of the audience, no one with a sane mind believes that 4.5% is the forever-more growth rate for Pakistan. According to the IMF, 8+% in a few short years is the likely scenario.

I neither claim to know nor predict future. I also subscibe to your earlier comment where you chastised my for talking about future and 8% growth of India (despite my not even approaching the subject). Future is what it is and we will know when we get there. However what I am talking about is the past trend..

If Pakistan gets out of the mess caused by its policy of using insurgents and extremism as proliferated by Zia, and grows 8-10% in future, then great.. But we will see it when we see it..

India did badly for 50+ years. Pakistan has done badly for the past 5 or so years. Once again, per capita income and GDP growth rates change every year... nothing is set in stone.

Exactly..Nothing is cast in stone. All we can do is look at the trend and thats what I did.. You may have another view of that, but hey, both of us can have our respective OPINIONS

Based on objective metrics, Pakistan is better off today than it was in 1990. Nuclear deterrent, higher per-capita income, much improved infrastructure, significant developments in manufacturing capacity, increased agricultural output and ongoing agricultural modernization, significantly larger number of universities etc. are just some of the metrics.

Pakistan 2010 > Pakistan 1990.. No doubt if looked at in isolation. But looking at how other countries in the region moved in this time, the lost decade doesnt just apply to the Pakistani armed forces, but to the whole economy, in my view..

 

[karan.1970]

Dude, i dont speak for my countrymen, i do it for myself.

What i said was based on the first 17 posts of this thread which were rants, yaps and blind denial by your COUNTRYMEN!

Now the way i see you defending them i am indeed compelled to believe that you no more are guud than any other indian ranter around here.


BTW, what did you people say about the vid where Kashmiris were made to walk naked even before announcing an investigation? May be i should quote more, right?

Dont you dare think of trying being a smarta$$ with me.

P.S. i would like you to quote me countering an article with hilarious rants (and not logic) as being done by you and your likes around here.

You and Peshwa can carry it on.. However 2 points.

1. About 1st 17 posts of rants.. Well a large number of posts in 1st 17 posts were from TechLahore. I can accept any one to be prone to ranting but him

2. About the vids in which Kashmiris were allegedly made to walk naked, well, we all have some vids of Pakistani army too recently and in the past as well. So this blade cuts both sides.. doesnt it?

 

[Xeric]

Your exact quote below.....

Very quick to distance yourself from your countrymen eh.....

Distance?

You need to visit the dictionary once more.

So then why criticize Indians as a whole claiming we cant "take criticism" when your lot is very well the same?

i can refer to the first 17 post of this thread, can you do the same? May be you can refer to the numerous trolls around this forum, right?

If you want to club all Indian opinions as that of a homogenous group, then be ready to be clubbed with the many senseless neanderthals present on your side as well..

i dont live by your rules.

Who are you to decide which club i may fall into?

i can very well classify ALL of the indian lot to whatever class i want, but i cant classify YOU (alone), this is known as not-getting-personal, but then how would you know.

Please save your threats for someone who cares....arent we all goliaths behind our computer screens....

Empirical evidence, right?

I dont need to....The comment I replied to wasnt think tank worthy....

This is not for you to decide.

you should know better than to generalize!

Generalize?

Make use of that tiny brain of your and read the post i have been referring to. Correct me if i am wrong with logic and proof. i would have liked if the you could have come up with post of your 'countrymen' talking sense and disagreeing with what the writer has to say with some reasoning. But then you wouldnt be knowing the difference between a rant and reasoning, would you?

I have proved my point while also exposing your hypocrisy!

Yeah right!

PS: The messenger does deserve to be criticized....especially keeping in mind that he is relating an Indian internal matter, a case of corrupt officials (not an Indian policy but the work of individuals) to an issue completely unrelated or affecting the matter in any way.....

Biting back on your words, right?

It;s understandable

So, in those terms the actions of PA officials and ISI (retd or presently active) being involved in international plots and also keeping relations with the Taliban.... should also be investigated....since it shows an alarming trend of members of the PA turning "fanatics...

Hand me over that something which you are smoking, right now (damn, it must be guud!)

Both cases are those of internal matter of the PA and IA......except in the case of the latter, Obama has no criteria since it hardly affects his nation.....which happens to be the crux of the article and what the author is implying....
Im fine with discussing corruption in the IA...something Im sure is prevalent...but has no relation wrt Obamas agenda...PERIOD!

See, i can 'cause' people to talk sense sometimes.

No need to say thankyou.

 

[Peshwa]

Distance?

You need to visit the dictionary once more.

I think you might need help for that short term memory problem.....

Did you not distance yourself from the numerous Pakistanis that use the guise of conspiracy theories and Indian source to discredit the content of a report?

At the same time, you want to club all Indians as "cant take criticism"?

If the point is still fleeting in your case...its understandable....But am simply saying that dont generalize Indians as saying we cant take criticism...

i can refer to the first 17 post of this thread, can you do the same? May be you can refer to the numerous trolls around this forum, right

?

You generalize based on 17 posts....I have this forum as evidence...

Besides...your criticism was uncalled for....

i dont live by your rules.

Who are you to decide which club i may fall into?

i can very well classify ALL of the indian lot to whatever class i want, but i cant classify YOU (alone), this is known as not-getting-personal, but then how would you know.

Are you sure you're making sense?

I am Indian...and when you refer to Indians....you also refer to me....

I dont think you've got a grip on the logic of "personal attack".....read your comments to me and ponder...

This is not for you to decide.

Lets get one thing straight....Your "Think Tank" title is a handout....

Something based purely on your nationality...NOT on merit...so dont let it get to your head...

Generalize?

Make use of that tiny brain of your and read the post i have been referring to. Correct me if i am wrong with logic and proof. i would have liked if the you could have come up with post of your 'countrymen' talking sense and disagreeing with what the writer has to say with some reasoning. But then you wouldnt be knowing the difference between a rant and reasoning, would you?

All your BS about not getting personal and you end up doing the same....

I edited my previous post to include the PS: in my previous post to

a. Let you know the flaw in your generalization, we all can do that
b. point you to why the criticism of the author was necessary....esp. wrt his reasoning.

Biting back on your words, right?

It;s understandable

Huh?

Hand me over that something which you are smoking, right now (damn, it must be guud!)

I am a Rasta in spirit....Come join me in NYC and Ill gladly smoke you down...
Until then get to the point ...that is if you have one other than this generic comment..

See, i can 'cause' people to talk sense sometimes.

No need to say thankyou.

You flatter yourself easily....

 

[Xeric]

i thought the likes of Karan and Bangalore were worst (no offence), but then your dumbness have made them shine infront of my eyes. i have been getting into arguments with Karan but after indulging with you i have more respect for him as atleast he has been trying to defend his point of view with logic, reasoning and facts, unlike you who is still defending rants.

Just think for once, is there a single post of yours in this thread that actually argues about the topic or have you even tried to counter the 'accusations' made by the writer?

My case is simple, feel free to differ but do it like a man. Dont squeal!

 

[Xeric]

You and Peshwa can carry it on.. However 2 points.

1. About 1st 17 posts of rants.. Well a large number of posts in 1st 17 posts were from TechLahore. I can accept any one to be prone to ranting but him

Hey dont let me down, i just praised you but then you decided that you would act stupid at will. Do you really want us to believe that you were not smoking anything when you said "Well a large number of posts in 1st 17 posts were from TechLahore", infact only 4 perhaps 5 posts were from TL out of those 17 and the remaining posts made by your indian 'countrymen' who were more interested in childish slurs rather than taking on the topic more professionally.

It infact felt that Naqvi did hit a nerve of your 'countrymen'.

2. About the vids in which Kashmiris were allegedly made to walk naked, well, we all have some vids of Pakistani army too recently and in the past as well. So this blade cuts both sides.. doesnt it?

Thanks for enlightening as if we didnt know.

BTW, my reply was to response to an off-topic yap that had the same 'ol ISI/PA bee ess. i hope you dont want to make this thread another Kashmir threads? It looks as if you are missing my presence at those threads

Anywaz, still all of 'our' vids dont even match yours in numbers what to talk about 'quality'

 

[Xeric]

Obama's support to India's UNSC bid not at Pak expense: US - The Times of India

Obama's support to India's UNSC bid not at Pak expense: US
PTI, Nov 13, 2010, 05.42am IST

WASHINGTON: US has briefed Pakistan on President Barack Obama's decision to endorse India for a permanent seat in the UN Security Council and assured Islamabad that his support to the bid is not at its expense.

"We have briefed the government of Pakistan on the President's announcement. I'm not aware that there was any particular concern expressed," State Department spokesman P J Crowley said.

"This (Obama's support) is a reflection of the growing importance of the region to the rest of the world, and Pakistan should not see this as something that comes at their expense. It does not," he said at his daily press briefing.

"I think they (Pakistan) understand what we told them, and beyond that, I'll leave it to the government of Pakistan to describe its own reaction," Crowley said on the statements from the Pakistan leadership expressing concern about US endorsement of India for the Security Council bid.

Obama, while addressing the joint session of Parliament on Monday during his India visit, said "I can say today, in the years ahead, I look forward to a reformed United Nations Security Council that includes India as a permanent member."

With this US became the fourth country, after Britain, France, and Russia to endorse India for a permanent seat i UNSC. However, Pakistan leadership have opposed to this.

"No one should see this in zero-sum terms. And first of all, understand that there is a process. It involves the Security Council and many countries that will have a say in the possible reform of the UN Security Council," Crowley added.

----

May be Peshwa can start by commenting on the news.

 

[Rank]

If Pakistan will not take this thing seriously i bet india will get the P.S in UN! simply ... our forigen policy makers are seriously A*****

 

[karan.1970]

i thought the likes of Karan and Bangalore were worst (no offence),

No offence taken.. Actually a compliment. If your adversary calls you the worst, its something to be proud of..

Hey dont let me down, i just praised you but then you decided that you would act stupid at will. Do you really want us to believe that you were not smoking anything when you said "Well a large number of posts in 1st 17 posts were from TechLahore", infact only 4 perhaps 5 posts were from TL out of those 17 and the remaining posts made by your indian 'countrymen' who were more interested in childish slurs rather than taking on the topic more professionally.

As they say, the most stupid of the lot only sees stupidity around him. Since he is incapable of comprehending the real content of the discussion. No wonder you are finding every one on this discussion, stupid..

btw, Techlahore is the member who has the maximum number of posts in the 1st 17 posts of this thread..

BTW, my reply was to response to an off-topic yap that had the same 'ol ISI/PA bee ess. i hope you dont want to make this thread another Kashmir threads? It looks as if you are missing my presence at those threads

You brought up Kashmir.. Not me.. Or did you forget

 

[Xeric]

No offence taken.. Actually a compliment. If your adversary calls you the worst, its something to be proud of..

i agree in totality.

As they say, the most stupid of the lot only sees stupidity around him. Since he is incapable of comprehending the real content of the discussion. No wonder you are finding every one on this discussion, stupid..

Whom are you exactly referring to?

BTW, you are so predictive Karan

btw, Techlahore is the member who has the maximum number of posts in the 1st 17 posts of this thread..

^^ i knew you would try take refuge in this. Who denied that 'most' of the post were from TL, but since my first post on this thread i was referring to the various indian posters ranting over the writer and his nationality rather than presenting us with facts and arguments. You cant disagree with, or may i should start quoting all of those posts?

You brought up Kashmir.. Not me.. Or did you forget

Please recheck your stats i was not the first one to 'bring' Kashmir/ISI/PA here. And if you are trying to support your off topic post by telling us who brought the word Kashmir here first you again would be wrong, as the way you brought PA vids into the thread in support of a rant was uncalled for.


P.S. Back to the topic, shall we?

 

[SMC]

And that is the sad part. Thats what the world considers you.. Make what you may of that..

Again, not the world. Only parts of the west. Why do some Indians seem to be persist with this delusion?

 

[karan.1970]

Again, not the world. Only parts of the west. Why do some Indians seem to be persist with this delusion?

The same west that is reponsible for the maximum financial assistence to Pakistan.

 

[karan.1970]

i agree in totality.


Whom are you exactly referring to?

BTW, you are so predictive Karan

I think you know who I am refering to

^^ i knew you would try take refuge in this. Who denied that 'most' of the post were from TL, but since my first post on this thread i was referring to the various indian posters ranting over the writer and his nationality rather than presenting us with facts and arguments. You cant disagree with, or may i should start quoting all of those posts?

This is what you said...

What i said was based on the first 17 posts of this thread which were rants, yaps and blind denial by your COUNTRYMEN!

which imply that all the posts in first 17 were from Indian posters. I just corrected you. If you meant something else, just say so, apologise for conveying the wrong impression and move on..

Please recheck your stats i was not the first one to 'bring' Kashmir/ISI/PA here. And if you are trying to support your off topic post by telling us who brought the word Kashmir here first you again would be wrong, as the way you brought PA vids into the thread in support of a rant was uncalled for.


P.S. Back to the topic, shall we?

Well, I didnt see any reference to Kashmir in the post to which you responded bringing up the naked parade..

Agree on getting back to topic. And as they say in Lucknow, pehele aap..