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Obama changed definition of civilians in drone war; Authorized killings

Pakistan talks about stopping drone strikes without looking at its own conduct on terrorist safe heavens.
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Oh get off your high horse when are you Indians going to get off this obsession with Pakistanis.

Don't feel obliged to defend American's unjust actions as all you do is come off as self serving sycophants

Pakistan talks about stopping drone strikes without looking at its own conduct on terrorist safe heavens.
Every country has international obligation to not shelter terrorist that attacks other countries. However Pakistan has not been able to eliminate the safe heaves for terrorist even after being asked to do so for decades.

This means that other countries are at risk of getting negatively impacted because Pakistan has not eliminated safe heaves for terrorist. In the light of Pakistan's inability to stop terror attacks originating from its soil on other countries. Other countries have right to act for its safety. Drone attacks are done for the same. As posted earlier by speaker, care is taken to not have civilian casualty, however one cannot be 100% perfect and their would be some collateral damage.

Hence the responsibility of Drone attacks completely lies on Pakistan, since it is unable to guarantee its neighbor that terrorist attacking them.

In real life if you have a home where there are some criminals living and attacking others, first opportunity will be given to you to get it fixed, but if you tell the world that you do not have means to deal with them (As Pakistan has said about it helplessness in starting NW operation). Others have to act for their safety.

Legally and morally you are talking claptrap.

In short you are accepting your inability of controlling the militants due to lack of resources. Which means that you failed in your international responsibility.

Number two if you are asking for others help in getting rid of militants on your own soil, it is their prerogative to share or not to share the technology know how, they are happy to get the intelligence, but your demand that drones should be gifted to you or you get to have first hand experience to that technology is not valid.

Sorry you have not debunked anything.

Last time I looked it was the UN that managed legal obligations between members not America. But then you do not care do you about international law you just back Americans in whatever they say because you want their assistance in a neighbourhood where your country is disliked by most if not all its neighbourhood.

I do not know whether it is remnant of a subservient culture you Indian/Hindus have after centuries of rule by outsiders or simply that you are scared of Chinese and or Pakistanis that makes you and others of your ilk so sycophantic that you have to try justifying the unjustifiable by Americans.

You do realise that no matter how much you ingratiate yourselves to whites they will still treat you like they do all Asians.

Go look at this thread you will see the whites here didn't ask Indians if they were Indians or Pakistanis etc. They just kicked them cos they were brown

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/183248-indian-students-beaten-up-ukranian-racists.html

In short you are accepting your inability of controlling the militants due to lack of resources. Which means that you failed in your international responsibility.

Statistics from Indian govt show Indian govt can not feed their own people. Does that entitle your sovereignty should be violated so people can be given human rights and food etc

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Sorry you have not debunked anything.

You stated nothing that actually needed debunking other than your sycophancy towards Americans for self serving reasons that we all know about

That war ended in 80's, are you telling me you could not control them in 30 years?

Did you ever tried? If you were struggling to control them did you asked for help from international community? No you did not do any of that, because you thought same template can be used against India.

Have the guts to own up.

How long have you and your lot trying to clear Maoists etc

I think you forgot selectively that after war with USSR and 9/11 there were more than 15 years. And you know very well that you never tried.

Who are you to judge?? A sycophantic Indian??
 
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Don't tell me we haven't tried it.

Pakistan has constantly asked US for Predator Drones control, US rejected it.
Pakistan has constantly asked advanced weapons and technology share, US rejected it.
Pakistan has repeatedly asked US to attack most wanted terrorists hidding in Afghanistan, US rejected it.
Pakistan has request US to stop killing innocent people by many sucide bombers from Af'tan, US ignored it.

During USSR war, US decided to left Pakistan, they left Pakistan thirty years ago and make terrorists (freedom fighters) to grow biggers and strongers. I am confident, this will happen in India, India can't handle it.
 
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Don't tell me we haven't tried it.

Pakistan has constantly asked US for Predator Drones control, US rejected it.
Pakistan has constantly asked advanced weapons and technology share, US rejected it.
Pakistan has repeatedly asked US to attack most wanted terrorists hidding in Afghanistan, US rejected it.
Pakistan has request US to stop killing innocent people by many sucide bombers from Af'tan, US ignored it.

During USSR war, US decided to left Pakistan, they left Pakistan thirty years ago and make terrorists (freedom fighters) to grow biggers and strongers. I am confident, this will happen in India, India can't handle it.

That is for sure, after the Soviet left Afg most of the militants who were created were pushed into India in 1989, We, Indians are worried again that this might happen after the withdrawal of NATO. Civilian casualty in drone strikes is sad. But we might look at it in a way that more militants killed now means lesser militants to infiltrate into India after 2014.
 
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That is for sure, after the Soviet left Afg most of the militants who were created were pushed into India in 1989, We, Indians are worried again that this might happen after the withdrawal of NATO. Civilian casualty in drone strikes is sad. But we might look at it in a way that more militants killed now means lesser militants to infiltrate into India after 2014.

I understand, we will get worried unknown numbers of terrorists hiding in Afghanistan that will flow to attack Pakistan even after 2014. Let me give you hint: same day 200 terrorists including sucide bombers last year attacked Pakistan suddenly. US doesn't solve anything but arrogances by supporting terrorists.

Do you see new definition of civilians to militants is helping terrorists growing? At the same time US killed them and make another new terrorists in trick. Let me say again, US predator drones kill many Indians and label them as militant terrorists to grow them, how you feel? Just because these Indians are against drones attacks.
 
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That war ended in 80's, are you telling me you could not control them in 30 years?

Did you ever tried? If you were struggling to control them did you asked for help from international community? No you did not do any of that, because you thought same template can be used against India.

Have the guts to own up.

The TTP, Swat Taliban, Mullah Nazir Group, Gul Bahadur Group etc. all rose in the aftermath of the US invasion of Afghanistan - they did not exist, in any organized fashion at least, prior to the US invasions, and therefore I don't see why Pakistan should 'own up'.
 
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now drones attacks are increasing everyday. Do our govt have same word Comdemn or they will do something to stop. After zardari's visit to Chicago I think he gave green signal to increase that.
 
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Obama is carrying out what he promised the people of the US in his Presidential bid in 2008, not acceptable for a sovereign nation like Pakistan but going by what he said in 2008 it should not be a surprise to Pakistan. And Pakistan should have taken corrective measures at that time.


2008-07-16
Lashing out at President George W Bush for his failure to "roll up" the Al Qaeda leadership, presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama has insisted that his administration will go into Pakistan unilaterally if there was actionable intelligence.

Obama repeated what he has been saying since last August in an interview on CNN stressing that in order to effectively deal with Al Qaeda, the US has to have a stronger relationship with the new government in Pakistan unlike the way the Bush administration had placed all the eggs in the basket of President Pervez Musharraf. "I think it is extraordinary, the failure of this administration, to roll up Al Qaeda leadership in a serious way. We know they're based now in Pakistan. And I've said that if we had actionable intelligence on those high-value targets, then we should go after them," Obama said on Larry King Live.

"In order for us to be effective in dealing with the resurgence of Al Qaeda and the Taliban as they use Pakistan -- the northwest provinces -- as a sanctuary, we've got to have a stronger relationship with the Pakistani government -- the new Pakistani government," he added. "We had put all our eggs in the Musharraf basket. President Musharraf has lost credibility with his people. What we need to do is to form an alliance with the Pakistani people, saying that we're willing to significantly increase aid for humanitarian purposes," the Illinois Senator said.

"We want to support democratic efforts in Pakistan. But in exchange, we've got to have some firmness about going after Al Qaeda and Taliban, because it's not good for American security, but it's also not good for Pakistani security," he said. The Illinois Democrat was pressed specifically on the issue if the United States under his administration will militarily go inside Pakistan to get Osama bin Laden. "As I've said before, I would use -- if I had actionable intelligence, we would go after bin Laden," Senator Obama replied.

The Illinois Democrat who now leads his rival Senator John McCain [Images] by at least eight points in a latest survey argued that he has not gone back on his plans for Iraq, which is still the withdrawal of American troops under a 16 month framework, but with a residual force staying back. "Where Senator McCain I think is confused is the difference between tactics and strategy. I am absolutely convinced that, strategically, it is time for us to bring this war to an end. And we can bring our combat troops out over the course of 16 months, which would mean that we would have gotten our combat troops out two years from now -- seven years from the time that the war began," Senator Obama maintained.

"And that is not a precipitous withdrawal. It is a pace that I think would allow us to do what we need to do in Iraq, and that is to make sure that their army and their police forces are sufficiently trained to manage day-to-day operations inside of Iraq," he said. "I've also said that we'll leave a residual force there to engage in counter-terrorism activities inside Iraq, as well, to protect our bases and our diplomats and civilian workers there. But this gives us ample time to wind this thing down in a way that allows us to support what's happening in Afghanistan and relieves the extraordinary stresses that have been placed on military families," he added.
 
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Obama has a vicious side to him - pretty soon he'll be giving out quotes like Stalin's

"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic"

He deserves to be locked up in a mental asylum not given the President's seat.
 
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The TTP, Swat Taliban, Mullah Nazir Group, Gul Bahadur Group etc. all rose in the aftermath of the US invasion of Afghanistan - they did not exist, in any organized fashion at least, prior to the US invasions, and therefore I don't see why Pakistan should 'own up'.

One cannot just come to existence with so many trained militants unless the ability was there, even if I considered it to be true still you had the responsibility of controlling your territory.

Obama has a vicious side to him - pretty soon he'll be giving out quotes like Stalin's

"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic"

He deserves to be locked up in a mental asylum not given the President's seat.

FYI, he is getting re-elected in November.
 
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Obama has a vicious side to him - pretty soon he'll be giving out quotes like Stalin's

"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic"

He deserves to be locked up in a mental asylum not given the President's seat.

"Peace Prize" winner - reduced to a Assassin -- poor USA, honestly, poor USA - it has done more damage to herself and her ideals than AQ could have ever dreamed of.
 
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@AM and others, my point of discussion is not if US is successful in Afghanistan or not. They might have failed to control the way one expects and there can be reasons behind it.
My point it simple.
1) Pakistan or any country for their matter should have their territories in their control. (Afghanistan is not US territory hence the analogy is false).
2) If there are safe heaves in your territory you have to control/eliminate them. I do not have bandwidth is not an acceptable answer, also you really have not used all your resource to control them.
3) If for some reason you still say you have no control over them and they will attack other countries. That is an act war and other countries have right to defend.

Now do not give example of people are crossing over from Afghanistan to Pakistan and hence US is equally responsible, they are not because Afghanistan is not their country. Also you are more then welcome to attack those militants in Afghanistan.
 
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Oh now you the oracle. It would appear that all your statements are in the same vein rather self serving with a dash of wishful thinking

Its my guess like people say Imran Khan is getting elected in Pakistan, they are also not oracle.
 
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Its my guess like people say Imran Khan is getting elected in Pakistan, they are also not oracle.

Yea but we qualify that by saying maybe or we think. You on the other hand are telling us I quote:

FYI, he is getting re-elected in November.
 
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Obama is a sorry excuse of a human being. That is all I have to say.....
 
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