Number of active Arabs on PDF

[الأعرابي]

Salam, if you're an Arab on PDF then you're politely asked to type just one reply to this very thread. That way we'll be able to pinpoint the exact number of fellow Arabs on here

Also I need to point out a few things that changed about me:-

1/ I announce that I became an Arab nationalist. Arab comes first then followed by what religion my people choose to follow. (But still just so there's no misunderstanding I still hold many non Arab Muslim brothers at extremely high grounds. In fact I'd be more than happy to side with what's right and stand against what's wrong meaning I'll side with a non Arab Muslim against an Arab Muslim who's unjust.

2/ I see Israel as an asset to my country Saudi Arabia and not as a threat, in fact us Arabs are more close to our Israeli Semitic cousins than many non Semitic ethnicities around our lands. I see great potential in our Jewish cousins. No matter how much we hate each other we're still one family and share one grandfather. Actually the problems with some of the radical Jews are very recent, around the 40s only. Before that throughout history Jews in the Middle East lived side by side with Muslims of all sects as one Semitic family, in fact both us and the Jews got equally oppressed and targeted by none Semites. For example when the crusades captured Jerusalem from the Muslims they slaughtered both the Jews and the Muslims alike. 70 thousands native Muslims and Jews of Jerusalem were simply wiped out. Same thing happened in Al-Andlus when the sons of yellow started brutally torturing those who remained from the Muslims and Jews alike. Also not forgetting the devastating Mongol invasions which targeted us both. If only just one person hold on for a sec and re think everything it will be super obvious that Muslims and Jews share the same enemies, and have the same friends, also they share some of their Semitic culture. We're destined together. And I call for everyone right now to just have a small quick thought of the huge amount of power we will achieve if we're actually all us Semites and Arabs united in one single entity called the United Semitic East. And our citizenship is just called a Semite. With every Semitic language as an official language. Imagine the amount of political, economical, and military power we will proses. And of course our Semitic country is built on a democratic secular government, where's religion is between you and God and the homeland is for ALL. I swear we will revive our ancient Levantines glory. After all were the cradle of civilizations.

3/ And lastly a message to my fellow Arab brothers, and I'll type it in Arabic but if someone wants it translated in the future I'll be more glad than to do so.
إلا متى والشعوب والاعراق الثانيه تستهزأ في حالنا وتضحك ع وضعنا الميؤس؟ ليه ما نحاول ننهض بأنفسنا ونترك صراعتنا اللي ورب المصفحف ما راح تسبب لنا الا الاحزان والآهات والموت وانعدام الحريه والمستقبل؟ هناك ٤٥٠ مليون عربي عايش داخل العالم العربي، زائد على ذلك مساحة وطننا العربي ومصادره الطبيعية هل عندك أدنى فكره عن حجم ألقوه اللي راح تكون معنا؟ فقط اذا اتحدنا على اننا عرب تجمعنا عدنان وقحطان، لن يلقلي لنا بال الا العرب امثالنا فقط وهذه هي الحقيقيه المره، ايضا لا ننسا أبناء عمومتنا اليهود فلقد تحاربنا معهم بما فيه الكافيه. ولو تفكر من منظور محايد راح تعرف انه اليهود في الواقع يتمنون السلام معنى بكل ما يملكون من غالي ونفيس، وصدقوني يا اخوتي العرب، اخوة الدم والعرق، وي أخوتي سواء خليجيين ساميين عراقيين مصريين سوريين لبنانيين شمال افريقيين وغيرهم فقط عندما نتوحد جميعناً سنتنا مع شيعتنا، واباضيتنا مع دروزنا، وعلويينا مع زيديتنا، وملحدينا مع علمائنا وشيوخنا ورجال ديننا ورجال دنيانا سواء من آمن بالله او لم يمأن اسلم ام لم يسلم لو فقط نتحد جميعنا تحت ظل حكومات نزيه وحره وشريفه ووعادله وكل القرارات والفعاليات الرسمية وغيرها يشرف عليها من جهات محايده ديموقراطية وعلمانية لظمان اعلى درجاة النزاهه، وتالله وبالله لنرتقي ترتيب دول العالم لان لدينا عقول ومصادر طبيعية كثيره لم تستغل



معليش اخواني العرب وغير العرب ع الاطاله لكن ولله لم أفكر بكتابة اي من هذا الكلام الا بعد ما عنيناه نحن العرب من ضلم الشعوب الاخرى لنا خاضتاً لما ضعفت اخر خلافه عربيه الا وهي خلافة بني العباس. يعلم الله ان بلاد العُرب كلها عزيزة علي وأقصى امنياتي انا ننزيل الحدود ونكون قومية واحده والجميع له الحق فاختيار كيف يحكم. اقول هذا الكلام ودمعتي ع عيني يا اخواني العراقيين بالأخص لما اشوفكم تميلون اكثر للإيراني ضد اخوك العربي اللي من دمك ولحمك، هداكم الله يا اخواننا في العراق مهما اشتديتم علينا سوف نخفض لكم جناح الذل لأنكم أهلنا وربعنا في نهاية الامر، فقد أتمنى انت تعلمون ما نعلم نحن اخوتكم، نحن نراكم تسقطون في افخاخ العجم الفرس لكم مما تسبب في تدمير بلاد الرافدين ارضنا وأرض اجدادنا. يعلم الله ما في قلوبنا لكم ألا المحبه والاحترام.

هذا والله اعلم
هدا الله كلمة العرب لما فيه سواء سبيلهم وهدايتهم وانتهاء مآسيهم بأذن الله.

سلام

@Bilad al-Haramayn
@BLACKEAGLE
@Chak Bamu
@Kuwaiti Girl ( I know you're a Baluch, but you've been living in Arab lands so your input is important for me sister )
@JUBA
@500
@Alshawi1234
And others::::


Also for those who do not know yet, I used to be called "JUBA" in here, I've started that account back in 2012.

 

[jammersat]

i'm not an arab but some of my compatriots like to call me arab انی عرب و لکن عرب منی

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Arabs are more closer to our Israeli Semitic cousins

Well said.

I see Israel as an asset to my country Saudi Arabia and not as a threat

No idea who you are but your very honest. Now please let Pakistani's here know about this.

 

[Mentee]

yo @Solomon2 ma non-gentile bro

 

[الأعرابي]

i'm not an arab but some of my compatriots like to call me arab انی عرب و لکن عرب منی

You're very welcome bro

 

[Falcon29]

You sound different than Juba, didn't know that was you...I like your message in Arabic, I believe many people in the region, although more specifically Arabs(as they seen the most violence) have come to an realization that these disputes are not worth it and don't achieve anything. That is a hopeful trend, although I have some reservations about some statements you made.

I don't like framing things as 'Crusade slaughter', that's offensive to the Christian community, and it was as result of Muslim conquest. I'm not going to argue with 'moral boundaries' as that past already happened and nothing will change it. The past consisted of such wars between 'peoples' and 'Empires', many that were bloody. Grieving over them or having ill feelings towards a community as a result of the past, is something pointless and backwards.

Second, not sure what you mean by Israel is an 'asset', Israel and Jewish people in general prefer leadership role and see everyone else around them as their 'assets'. Maybe you're worried of Iranian threat, and see it as necessary factor in region. I'll admit, the worry among Gulf Arabs is much more than I anticipated.

Also, irregardless of the Israel/Palestine situation, I don't relate to the Jewish people much. There's simply not much in common, I don't like some of their habits. Some reasons:

-They're very racist against white people that host them in the West
-They like to make themselves distinct and stand out from general population
-Don't mix well with the population, all they do is push their worldview and try to keep it exclusively that way
-They're not thankful for anything(past or present), will only treat you well if you abide by their agenda
-They don't share much semitic characteristics(you must be thinking of ancient Jewish Arab tribes, they're not like that anymore)

...
...

From what I've observed, most Muslims like Jews because they think they have common religious ground, but also because they don't like white Christian people. One other reason, is that Jews are making a case for Abrahamic religion(but for a reason). I do not relate to this anti-Christian bias, on contrary, white Christian people and other Christians are among the best people I met. They are the only culture around the world that doesn't share bias toward anyone, and are welcoming and open to people of all backgrounds. Jewish and Muslim, however, are different, they like to constantly accuse Christians of blasphemy. Now me personally, I don't believe in religion, but let's give benefit of doubt, why don't Muslims focus on their selves and stop this Jews are our brothers/screw Christians thing?

Whenever you put more religion into someone, whether Muslim or Christian, they will develop view of 'other' towards person of different religion. And that's how some hate and bad feelings develop.

Overall, these past grudges need to stop, and many Jews are nice people but I wish they'd drop their 'exclusivity' factor, and stop being pushy with their worldview. I don't hate them nor like them, but they won't gain my sympathy as long as they refuse to change their ways.

 

[BordoEnes]

Interesting. Arab nationalism has died out long ago and has been replaced by Islamism but here you are preaching it. Also most of Israeli's are not really Semetic in origin. Most are either Europeneun or Khazar Turkic in origin.

 

[Falcon29]

Interesting. Arab nationalism has died out long ago and has been replaced by Islamism but here you are preaching it. Also most of Israeli's are not really Semetic in origin. Most are either Europeneun or Khazar Turkic in origin.

There is no Arab nationalism akin to the kind that was seen in the 60's/70's, but there is a new popular trend of stressing 'commonalities' of the Arab nationalities in the region. Which is normal, many Turks share same attachment to people with Turkish roots, such as Azeri's or Syrian/Iraqi turkmen.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@Khafee You need to see this thread

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

Interesting. Arab nationalism has died out long ago and has been replaced by Islamism but here you are preaching it. Also most of Israeli's are not really Semetic in origin. Most are either Europeneun or Khazar Turkic in origin.

You do realize that more than half of the Jews in Israel originate from Arab countries and look exactly the same as their Muslim, Christian, Atheist etc. brethren? You will not be able to tell the difference between an Yemeni, Iraqi, Egyptian, Moroccan etc. Jew for instance and their Muslim, Christian etc. counterparts. Moreover the language, religion and culture of Jews is a Semitic one. In regards to the European Jews it has actually been proven that a substantial amount of them have Near Eastern DNA. Besides every people are mixed, it's their culture, language, religion, history etc. that matters the most at the end of the day. Also the nomadic Khazar (a long-extinct people) myth has been buried long ago.

Also how can you say that Arab nationalism "died out long ago" when an Arab identity is inherent in most of the 450 million Arabs? What you are thinking about is the dominant political "Arab nationalism" movement decades ago which was hijacked by a few political movements such as Baathism, Nasserism etc, and which was dominated by socialism. No sane Arab today will equal those movements as the sole representative of "Arab nationalism". Already modern-day nationalism is an European concept tied to nations states (mostly modern ones) but Arabs have always had their own sense and definition of nationalism which many authors, early Arab authors from even before the Islamic Golden Age and modern non-Arab authors have described in detail.

When Arabs ruled the Caliphate and most of the Muslim world (Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Famitid etc. Caliphates/Empires) for almost 1000 years there was already a very well-developed sense of Arab nationalism and a very strong sense of Arab identity. In fact similarities between Arab nations/regions 200 years ago were in many ways greater than today where the different histories of modern-nation states have shaped new identities. 200 years ago a person from Muscat in Oman next to the Arabian Sea/Indian and a person in Rabat next to the Atlantic Ocean 15.000 km away (or how far it is) shared in many ways a similar identity just like the case is today.

Also Arabs are the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese and inhabit a region almost the size of Russia on 2 continents. Although Arab countries are geographically tied with each other (you can travel from Oman to Morocco and only cross Arab countries) we are talking about a huge geographical area and in the modern-era with sovereign national states with their various interests (like every single sovereign nation of worth) it's extremely difficult to politically unite such a region.




Even despite this and many failures from leaderships, local politicians, wars imposed by foreigners etc. the Arab League (largest ethnic political movement of its kind) has existed for 70 years and despite rightful criticism at times it is still an important body for Arabs to discuss internal and regional affairs and I imagine that this cooperation would have looked many, many times more fruitful had most Arab states not been dictatorships or in the current political turmoil.

If you ask the average Arab regardless of nationality, religion, sect etc. he/she will tell you that further Arab cooperation is very important.

Arabs overall share much, much more in common than what divides us. Language, religion (Islam and Christianity - the 2 of 3 Abrahamic (Semitic) religions), overall culture such as cuisine, music, history (ancient as modern), Islamic history for the past 1400 years, pre-Islamic history (everything that is considered the Arab world today was in pre-Islamic times inhabited by various closely related Semitic/Hamitic peoples who are the ancestors of Arabs all across the Arab world) etc.

There is no other people this numerous (450 million), who inhabits such a large geographical area who has this much in common. Slavic people for instance, who number around 300 million, are not even geographically tied as the Arabs are (South Slavs are for instance geographically isolated from the West and East Slavs), they do not speak a single language, in fact despite speaking related languages a Russian would only understand a minority of what a Macedonian spoke, Slavs were never united under one ban a single time in history, no united Slavic state ever existed etc. There is no Slavic Union etc. The hatred between Slavs (Poles vs Russian for instance or what the situation is in the Balkans) and the wars they have fought against each other in recent times are nowhere close to the inter-Arab relations. In fact inter-Arab conflicts are a joke in comparison.

Smartly the 180-200 million Turkic peoples are divided geographically, they do not speak a single language, they do not share a single as similar culture as the Arabic one despite similarities (a Kazakh will find it hard to relate with a Turk in say Adana, in fact I would almost claim that an Arab be it in terms of physical look, geography, culture, cuisine etc. would have a easier way than the Kazakh) nor does a political Turkic Union even exist despite there only being 6 Turkic states and Turkic states not facing instability while Arabs have over 20 Arab states and instability.

I am yet to met a single Arab, regardless of his nationality, who does not acknowledge the close affinity to other Arabs. Even those few who want to emphasize their pre-Arabic Semitic history (all current Arab states have a pre-Arab Semitic history, another crucial thing that we share in common) for instance the few Lebanese who consider them "Phoenicians" acknowledge those extremely close ties. In fact they can only articulate their beliefs in Arabic ironically and not Phoenician which speaks volume.

Not to mention that Arabs even share DNA with each other. We are actually literally blood related not only linguistically, culturally, religiously and geographically. We cluster more with each other than anyone else along with immediate Near Eastern/Southern European neighbors.



------------

Anyway Arabs and Jews are cousins and have many things in common be it language, religion, culture, geography, over 50% of all current Israeli Jews being of Arab Jewish origin, 20% of the population of Israel being Palestinian Arab etc. but for the Arab world and Israel to have close relations like neighbors and throughout much of history, the Palestinian question must be solved. As long as this is not solved, I will personally not consider Israel as a potential ally or close partner.

Also speaking about a united "Semitic/Afro-Asiatic/whatever" union is simply unrealistic as the size of that would be too big and complicated. It's more realistic that an Arab World/European/Greater Mediterranean union (economic, political etc.) would emerge than such a state.

If anything I would prefer to limit it to the Arab world if such a project should ever kickstart and in fact the only realistic option (as of now and in the world we live in today where empires are a thing of the past) would be a federal state where regional economic, political etc. unions such as the current GCC (whose nature in the future we cannot guess about, if for instance the GCC one day became democratic states the GCC might spread to other than other potential Arab monarchies such as neighboring Jordan, Morocco etc), Arab Maghreb Union etc. and others could unite into 1 federal state with the current borders and current sovereigns in place.

Anyway I agree that such a project considering how things are going and where in this world (all over the world) only under democratic and secular rulers could such a federal state ever emerge.

Anyway regardless of the future existing of such a federal state or not the Arab world is already geographically connected and nothing will ever change that so in a sense we are already united, lol. In all seriousness I can only see one development and that will be one of more economic, political, social, defense-related etc. cooperation among Arab nations but not only that but all other neighboring countries whether in the remaining MENA region or neighboring Europe, neighboring Sub-Saharan Africa, neighboring non-Arab Asia etc.

We can already see that when we take a look at most Arab states, especially the richer and more stable states, and their relations with India and other South Asian states, whom we are geographically only divided by the Arabian Sea, old historical partners such as China, South East Asia where we have ancient trade, cultural etc. ties with (several millennia old just like in South East Asia) and an 10 million big Arab diaspora in Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei etc. and where we share religion and certain cultural traits, Latin America (where we have an Arab diaspora of some 30-40 million people) and share many traits in common from culture, cuisine, music etc. due to the closeness of Arab language, culture etc. with Spanish and Portuguese culture due to almost 1000 years of mutual exposure and due to the large Arab diaspora in Latin America. Much of this is not much talked about but such relations are gaining grounds for obvious reasons and that will only increase in the future. Of course the priority should lie within especially due to the unrest in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, the Palestinian question etc. but overall the point is here that the world is getting smaller and smaller for each year and globalization is the future. The Arab world, the cradle of civilization, an absolute key player since antiquity until the recent era in terms of trade routes, trade etc. and geographically the center of the world (literary) obviously will and has the potential to play an important role in the world. We already do on many fronts but the demographics and future economic growth will ensure this regardless.

Also not only the Arab world but other traditional civilization centers with a large population, a large number of youth, a large economic, social, political potential such as South Asia. China has already proven that after experiencing much of what the Arab world is experiencing not that long ago. I also believe that Sub-Saharan Africa will be an important player in the future.

Anyway I agree with the overall message and I honestly don't believe that any sane Arab will disagree regardless of his or her outlook. Arabs are some of the most proud and nationalistic people. Even all Arab Islamists whenever they address an religious question, they always stress Arabs and Muslims. Or Arab world and Muslim world. In fact many Arab and non-Arab observers believe that Islam is an extension of Arab nationalism/imperialism. Anyway the point here is that Arab nationalism/sense of Arab identity and a Muslim identity is considered as the exact same thing in the Arab world. Most outsiders seem not to understand this and wonder how "Arabs can be nationalistic" or outright criticize us when we are, when those same people have no problem with nationalism in other Muslim ethnic groups. It's quite hilarious and I have noticed this on PDF many times and elsewhere on the internet.

Lastly, there were once around 100-150 of us Arab users but 80-90% of us have left PDF for good or simply no longer are active. Due to various reasons that I am sure that you are familiar with, at least a few of them. I myself took a half year long break and if things don't improve I might join the party but yeah, I miss the old days and all the interesting characters regardless of where they were from in the world. It's not the same longer but most forums are dying and are replaced by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and what not.

i'm not an arab but some of my compatriots like to call me arab انی عرب و لکن عرب منی

You could be one of those many crypto-Arabs/Semites in Iran who have lost their identity. I have read that there are a lot of those in the Persian-speaking regions of Iran in particular in Southern Iran and Khorasan. I think you spoke about this yourself before if I am not wrong.

In all seriousness Arabs and Iranians are genetically very close, geographic neighbors and I have seen tons of Iranians who could pass as Arabs from nearby regions (Arabia, Sham, Iraq) and vice versa without a problem. You already use an Arabic alphabet, 40% of your vocabulary derives from Arabic and the list is very long. Pre-Islamic Iranian culture has been heavily influenced by nearby Semitic culture on almost every imaginable front as well. Persian culture also influenced Arab culture etc. You should join the party. I think that you got the gist of it.

You sound different than Juba, didn't know that was you...I like your message in Arabic, I believe many people in the region, although more specifically Arabs(as they seen the most violence) have come to an realization that these disputes are not worth it and don't achieve anything. That is a hopeful trend, although I have some reservations about some statements you made.

I don't like framing things as 'Crusade slaughter', that's offensive to the Christian community, and it was as result of Muslim conquest. I'm not going to argue with 'moral boundaries' as that past already happened and nothing will change it. The past consisted of such wars between 'peoples' and 'Empires', many that were bloody. Grieving over them or having ill feelings towards a community as a result of the past, is something pointless and backwards.

Second, not sure what you mean by Israel is an 'asset', Israel and Jewish people in general prefer leadership role and see everyone else around them as their 'assets'. Maybe you're worried of Iranian threat, and see it as necessary factor in region. I'll admit, the worry among Gulf Arabs is much more than I anticipated.

Also, irregardless of the Israel/Palestine situation, I don't relate to the Jewish people much. There's simply not much in common, I don't like some of their habits. Some reasons:

-They're very racist against white people that host them in the West
-They like to make themselves distinct and stand out from general population
-Don't mix well with the population, all they do is push their worldview and try to keep it exclusively that way
-They're not thankful for anything(past or present), will only treat you well if you abide by their agenda
-They don't share much semitic characteristics(you must be thinking of ancient Jewish Arab tribes, they're not like that anymore)

...
...

From what I've observed, most Muslims like Jews because they think they have common religious ground, but also because they don't like white Christian people. One other reason, is that Jews are making a case for Abrahamic religion(but for a reason). I do not relate to this anti-Christian bias, on contrary, white Christian people and other Christians are among the best people I met. They are the only culture around the world that doesn't share bias toward anyone, and are welcoming and open to people of all backgrounds. Jewish and Muslim, however, are different, they like to constantly accuse Christians of blasphemy. Now me personally, I don't believe in religion, but let's give benefit of doubt, why don't Muslims focus on their selves and stop this Jews are our brothers/screw Christians thing?

Whenever you put more religion into someone, whether Muslim or Christian, they will develop view of 'other' towards person of different religion. And that's how some hate and bad feelings develop.

Overall, these past grudges need to stop, and many Jews are nice people but I wish they'd drop their 'exclusivity' factor, and stop being pushy with their worldview. I don't hate them nor like them, but they won't gain my sympathy as long as they refuse to change their ways.

I think that his overall message was merely that Arabs and Jews could work closely together as neighbors and at least live in peace like throughout most of history if the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was solved and its hard to disagree with that notion. Nor the fact that we arguably share more with Jews in Israel than let say a Bangladeshi Hindu or a Nigerian Christian. Other than that I believe that his ideas align with your own of late or am I wrong here?

Also I agree about your comment about Christians and Europeans. Christianity originated in the Arab world and Israel. The oldest Christian communities in the world are Christian Arabs/Assyrians. It's our second largest religion and the religion of many of our pre-Islamic ancestors. It's as much a part of our culture/history as that of Europe's. Arabs also share a lot in common with our Southern European neighbors if you study history, culture etc. closely from Portugal to Greece. We are direct neighbors and empires/civilizations on both sides have influenced each other and population movements have occurred as well. That is why Arabs and Southern Europeans cluster with each other on DNA tests compared to other populations of the world. This is of course logical due to history and geography nevertheless if you want to look at the wider picture, this cannot be ignored. Of course 95% of all Arabs have no clue about anything that we discuss as most people, outside of us people who are interested in such things, do not care as this does not impact their every-day life. In fact Arabs were classified as a "Mediterranean Race" or as the "Arabid Race" which was/is a subgroup of the Mediterranean Race by European racialists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabid_race

Again I believe that the overall message here is aimed at mostly American foreign policy in the Arab and Muslim world and their support for Israel which is hard to disagree with. I don't think that the average Western/European person is a problem here, their culture let alone Christianity. I might be wrong here but I doubt it. I personally have no problem with any people or culture, only individual regimes and decision makers and the trolls among each group of people. Everyone has bad apples among them and nobody is an exception.

Tagging Arab users here would be pointless as we are only a handful left, maybe 10 or so active users but I believe that this is somewhat of a stretch nowadays.

At the end of the day this thread's key question to be asked should be, before anything else, are we as Arabs content with the situation in the Arab world or not? The answer to this simple question should be obvious so from then one its all about answers that could change the status quo. Personally I have no interest in becoming a part of some huge super federal Arab state if the current status quo will remain the same. So rather let us first fix our own problems starting in our own countries and then we can focus on helping each other more aggressively although I believe that the strong should help the weak much more aggressively than today but that cannot be expected of the current status quo for a number of reasons that we are all familiar with.

This was a long post (I wrote it in 20 minutes or so so bear over me) but the gist of it should be understandable for everyone regardless of potential disagreements here and there.

There is no Arab nationalism akin to the kind that was seen in the 60's/70's, but there is a new popular trend of stressing 'commonalities' of the Arab nationalities in the region. Which is normal, many Turks share same attachment to people with Turkish roots, such as Azeri's or Syrian/Iraqi turkmen.

True but I don't think that this phenomenon of "stressing commonalities" is a new thing. It's always been like that. Every empirical data confirms it. Of course such sentiments are easer detectable today in this modern-era with us being surrounded by media, social media etc. 24/7. Literacy rates being a total different animal compared to say before WW2 (we don't even need to go this far back) etc. Also let us not forget that nationalism in its current form (as most recognize it as) is a very, very recent phenomenon when you look at overall history. Modernist nationalism is not much older than 150 years and originated in Western Europe and later spread to the remaining world. Arabs had a sense of kinship long before that just as almost every single current ethnic group otherwise they would not exist today, one could easily claim.

A big problem is however that most of us Arabs, especially the natives, have lost much hope and stopped caring due to the current situation and I honestly don't blame them although I disagree. I don't blame an Yemeni, Iraqi, Libyan, Syrian etc. for focusing on his own mess rather than thinking about such grandiose ideas of some superstate. It's nice in theory but currently not realistic. May I refer to other parts of this novel, lol.

Finally skreeeww autocorrect...

Guys take a look at this Buzzfeed video uploaded yesterday about Syrian cuisine. 1 million views almost and most of the comments are from Arabs from what I have seen. They call it "Syrian cuisine" but in reality all of those dishes are global Arab dishes that we all can relate to. This is acknowledged by most of the commentators as well. Food for thought in regards to the all the similarities I was talking about earlier in this novel. In fact you could go as far and say that non-Arabs of our region have similar dishes which again shows that we are all ultimately related in some way or another so maybe we should look at things from an universal perspective instead of an ethnic one? Food for thought again.

 

[BordoEnes]

You do realize that more than half of the Jews in Israel originate from Arab countries and look exactly the same as their Muslim, Christian, Atheist etc. brethren? You will not be able to tell the difference between an Yemeni, Iraqi, Egyptian, Moroccan etc. Jew for instance and their Muslim, Christian etc. counterparts. Moreover the language, religion and culture of Jews is a Semitic one. In regards to the European Jews it has actually been proven that a substantial amount of them have Near Eastern DNA. Besides every people are mixed, it's their culture, language, religion, history etc. that matters the most at the end of the day. Also the nomadic Khazar (a long-extinct people) myth has been buried long ago.

Also how can you say that Arab nationalism "died out long ago" when an Arab identity is inherent in most of the 450 million Arabs? What you are thinking about is the dominant political "Arab nationalism" movement decades ago which was hijacked by a few political movements such as Baathism, Nasserism etc, and which was dominated by socialism. No sane Arab today will equal those movements as the sole representative of "Arab nationalism". Already modern-day nationalism is an European concept tied to nations states (mostly modern ones) but Arabs have always had their own sense and definition of nationalism which many authors, early Arab authors from even before the Islamic Golden Age and modern non-Arab authors have described in detail.

When Arabs ruled the Caliphate and most of the Muslim world (Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Famitid etc. Caliphates/Empires) for almost 1000 years there was already a very well-developed sense of Arab nationalism and a very strong sense of Arab identity. In fact similarities between Arab nations/regions 200 years ago were in many ways greater than today where the different histories of modern-nation states have shaped new identities. 200 years ago a person from Muscat in Oman next to the Arabian Sea/Indian and a person in Rabat next to the Atlantic Ocean 15.000 km away (or how far it is) shared in many ways a similar identity just like the case is today.

Also Arabs are the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese and inhabit a region almost the size of Russia on 2 continents. Although Arab countries are geographically tied with each other (you can travel from Oman to Morocco and only cross Arab countries) we are talking about a huge geographical area and in the modern-era with sovereign national states with their various interests (like every single sovereign nation of worth) it's extremely difficult to politically unite such a region.




Even despite this and many failures from leaderships, local politicians, wars imposed by foreigners etc. the Arab League (largest ethnic political movement of its kind) has existed for 70 years and despite rightful criticism at times it is still an important body for Arabs to discuss internal and regional affairs and I imagine that this cooperation would have looked many, many times more fruitful had most Arab states not been dictatorships or in the current political turmoil.

If you ask the average Arab regardless of nationality, religion, sect etc. he/she will tell you that further Arab cooperation is very important.

Arabs overall share much, much more in common than what divides us. Language, religion (Islam and Christianity - the 2 of 3 Abrahamic (Semitic) religions), overall culture such as cuisine, music, history (ancient as modern), Islamic history for the past 1400 years, pre-Islamic history (everything that is considered the Arab world today was in pre-Islamic times inhabited by various closely related Semitic/Hamitic peoples who are the ancestors of Arabs all across the Arab world) etc.

There is no other people this numerous (450 million), who inhabits such a large geographical area who has this much in common. Slavic people for instance, who number around 300 million, are not even geographically tied as the Arabs are (South Slavs are for instance geographically isolated from the West and East Slavs), they do not speak a single language, in fact despite speaking related languages a Russian would only understand a minority of what a Macedonian spoke, Slavs were never united under one ban a single time in history, no united Slavic state ever existed etc. There is no Slavic Union etc. The hatred between Slavs (Poles vs Russian for instance or what the situation is in the Balkans) and the wars they have fought against each other in recent times are nowhere close to the inter-Arab relations. In fact inter-Arab conflicts are a joke in comparison.

Smartly the 180-200 million Turkic peoples are divided geographically, they do not speak a single language, they do not share a single as similar culture as the Arabic one despite similarities (a Kazakh will find it hard to relate with a Turk in say Adana, in fact I would almost claim that an Arab be it in terms of physical look, geography, culture, cuisine etc. would have a easier way than the Kazakh) nor does a political Turkic Union even exist despite there only being 6 Turkic states and Turkic states not facing instability while Arabs have over 20 Arab states and instability.

I am yet to met a single Arab, regardless of his nationality, who does not acknowledge the close affinity to other Arabs. Even those few who want to emphasize their pre-Arabic Semitic history (all current Arab states have a pre-Arab Semitic history, another crucial thing that we share in common) for instance the few Lebanese who consider them "Phoenicians" acknowledge those extremely close ties. In fact they can only articulate their beliefs in Arabic ironically and not Phoenician which speaks volume.

Not to mention that Arabs even share DNA with each other. We are actually literally blood related not only linguistically, culturally, religiously and geographically. We cluster more with each other than anyone else along with immediate Near Eastern/Southern European neighbors.



------------

Anyway Arabs and Jews are cousins and have many things in common be it language, religion, culture, geography, over 50% of all current Israeli Jews being of Arab Jewish origin, 20% of the population of Israel being Palestinian Arab etc. but for the Arab world and Israel to have close relations like neighbors and throughout much of history, the Palestinian question must be solved. As long as this is not solved, I will personally not consider Israel as a potential ally or close partner.

Also speaking about a united "Semitic/Afro-Asiatic/whatever" union is simply unrealistic as the size of that would be too big and complicated. It's more realistic that an Arab World/European/Greater Mediterranean union (economic, political etc.) would emerge than such a state.

If anything I would prefer to limit it to the Arab world if such a project should ever kickstart and in fact the only realistic option (as of now and in the world we live in today where empires are a thing of the past) would be a federal state where regional economic, political etc. unions such as the current GCC (whose nature in the future we cannot guess about, if for instance the GCC one day became democratic states the GCC might spread to other than other potential Arab monarchies such as neighboring Jordan, Morocco etc), Arab Maghreb Union etc. and others could unite into 1 federal state with the current borders and current sovereigns in place.

Anyway I agree that such a project considering how things are going and where in this world (all over the world) only under democratic and secular rulers could such a federal state ever emerge.

Anyway regardless of the future existing of such a federal state or not the Arab world is already geographically connected and nothing will ever change that so in a sense we are already united, lol. In all seriousness I can only see one development and that will be one of more economic, political, social, defense-related etc. cooperation among Arab nations but not only that but all other neighboring countries whether in the remaining MENA region or neighboring Europe, neighboring Sub-Saharan Africa, neighboring non-Arab Asia etc.

We can already see that when we take a look at most Arab states, especially the richer and more stable states, and their relations with India and other South Asian states, whom we are geographically only divided by the Arabian Sea, old historical partners such as China, South East Asia where we have ancient trade, cultural etc. ties with (several millennia old just like in South East Asia) and an 10 million big Arab diaspora in Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei etc. and where we share religion and certain cultural traits, Latin America (where we have an Arab diaspora of some 30-40 million people) and share many traits in common from culture, cuisine, music etc. due to the closeness of Arab language, culture etc. with Spanish and Portuguese culture due to almost 1000 years of mutual exposure and due to the large Arab diaspora in Latin America. Much of this is not much talked about but such relations are gaining grounds for obvious reasons and that will only increase in the future. Of course the priority should lie within especially due to the unrest in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, the Palestinian question etc. but overall the point is here that the world is getting smaller and smaller for each year and globalization is the future. The Arab world, the cradle of civilization, an absolute key player since antiquity until the recent era in terms of trade routes, trade etc. and geographically the center of the world (literary) obviously will and has the potential to play an important role in the world. We already do on many fronts but the demographics and future economic growth will ensure this regardless.

Also not only the Arab world but other traditional civilization centers with a large population, a large number of youth, a large economic, social, political potential such as South Asia. China has already proven that after experiencing much of what the Arab world is experiencing not that long ago. I also believe that Sub-Saharan Africa will be an important player in the future.

Anyway I agree with the overall message and I honestly don't believe that any sane Arab will disagree regardless of his or her outlook. Arabs are some of the most proud and nationalistic people. Even all Arab Islamists whenever they address an religious question, they always stress Arabs and Muslims. Or Arab world and Muslim world. In fact many Arab and non-Arab observers believe that Islam is an extension of Arab nationalism/imperialism. Anyway the point here is that Arab nationalism/sense of Arab identity and a Muslim identity is considered as the exact same thing in the Arab world. Most outsiders seem not to understand this and wonder how "Arabs can be nationalistic" or outright criticize us when we are, when those same people have no problem with nationalism in other Muslim ethnic groups. It's quite hilarious and I have noticed this on PDF many times and elsewhere on the internet.

Lastly, there were once around 100-150 of us Arab users but 80-90% of us have left PDF for good or simply no longer are active. Due to various reasons that I am sure that you are familiar with, at least a few of them. I myself took a half year long break and if things don't improve I might join the party but yeah, I miss the old days and all the interesting characters regardless of where they were from in the world. It's not the same longer but most forums are dying and are replaced by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and what not.



You could be one of those many crypto-Arabs in Iran who have lost their identity. I have read that there are a lot of those in the Persian-speaking regions of Iran in particular in Southern Iran and Khorasan. I think you spoke about this yourself before if I am not wrong.

In all seriousness Arabs and Iranians are genetically very close, geographic neighbors and I have seen tons of Iranians who could pass as Arabs from nearby regions (Arabia, Sham, Iraq) and vice versa without a problem. You already use an Arabic alphabet, 40% of your vocabulary derives from Arabic and the list is very long. Pre-Islamic Iranian culture has been heavily influenced by nearby Semitic culture on almost every imaginable front as well. Persian culture also influenced Arab culture etc. You should join the party. I think that you got the gist of it.



I think that his overall message was merely that Arabs and Jews could work closely together as neighbors and at least live in peace like throughout most of history if the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was solved and its hard to disagree with that notion. Nor the fact that we arguably share more with Jews in Israel than let say a Bangladeshi Hindu or a Nigerian Christian. Other than that I believe that his ideas align with your own of late or am I wrong here?

Also I agree about your comment about Christians and Europeans. Christianity originated in the Arab world and Israel. The oldest Christian communities in the world are Christian Arabs/Assyrians. It's our second largest religion and the religion of many of our pre-Islamic ancestors. It's as much a part of our culture/history as that of Europe's. Arabs also share a lot in common with our Southern European neighbors if you study history, culture etc. closely from Portugal to Greece. We are direct neighbors and empires/civilizations on both sides have influenced each other and population movements have occurred as well. That is why Arabs and Southern Europeans cluster with each other on DNA tests compared to other populations of the world. This is of course logical due to history and geography nevertheless if you want to look at the wider picture, this cannot be ignored. Of course 95% of all Arabs have no clue about anything that we discuss as most people, outside of us people who are interested in such things, do not care as this does not impact their every-day life. In fact Arabs were classified as a "Mediterranean Race" or as the "Arabid Race" which was/is a subgroup of the Mediterranean Race by European racialists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabid_race

Again I believe that the overall message here is aimed at mostly American foreign policy in the Arab and Muslim world and their support for Israel which is hard to disagree with. I don't think that the average Western/European person is a problem here, their culture let alone Christianity. I might be wrong here but I doubt it. I personally have no problem with any people or culture, only individual regimes and decision makers and the trolls among each group of people. Everyone has bad apples among them and nobody is an exception.

Tagging Arab users here would be pointless as we are only a handful left, maybe 10 or so active users but I believe that this is somewhat of a stretch nowadays.

At the end of the day this thread's key question to be asked should be, before anything else, are we as Arabs content with the situation in the Arab world or not? The answer to this simple question should be obvious so from then one its all about answers that could change the status quo. Personally I have no interest in becoming a part of some huge super federal Arab state if the current status quo will remain the same. So rather let us first fix our own problems starting in our own countries and then we can focus on helping each other more aggressively although I believe that the strong should help the weak much more aggressively than today but that cannot be expected of the current status quo for a number of reasons that we are all familiar with.

This was a long post (I wrote it in 20 minutes or so so bear over me) but the gist of it should be understandable for everyone regardless of potential disagreements here and there.



True but I don't think that this phenomenon of "stressing commonalities" is a new thing. It's always been like that. Every empirical data confirms it. Of course such sentiments are easer detectable today in this modern-era with us being surrounded by media, social media etc. 24/7. Literacy rates being a total different animal compared to say before WW2 (we don't even need to go this far back) etc. Also let us not forget that nationalism in its current form (as most recognize it as) is a very, very recent phenomenon when you look at overall history. Modernist nationalism is not much older than 150 years and originated in Western Europe and later spread to the remaining world. Arabs had a sense of kinship long before that just as almost every single current ethnic group otherwise they would not exist today, one could easily claim.

Finally skreeeww autocorrect... Too tired.

Damn. I aint reading that...

 

[HAIDER]

Was he arab too

 

[الأعرابي]

Interesting. Arab nationalism has died out long ago and has been replaced by Islamism but here you are preaching it. Also most of Israeli's are not really Semetic in origin. Most are either Europeneun or Khazar Turkic in origin.

My Arab nationalism is no way near the socialist Ba'athst style. It's far from it.

Was he arab too

Of course he was.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

@Bilad al-Haramayn Interesting post. Thanks. Just to clarify are Somali's Arabs like Mo farah?

Are Sudani's like President Omar al Bashir Arabs?

Or the very visible Phoenician looking Lebanese President Michel Sleiman a Arab?

According to this map the Arab world is very diverse. It appears to be various groups who were subjugated by Arab invaders from the Arabian peninsula and over time subsumed into the Arab umbrella.
People like Assryrians, Greek Copts, Egyptians, Berbers, Tuarags, Circassians, Armenians, Phoenicians, Somalis, Sudanese and even Romans. However the true Arabs homeland is the peninsula as historically speaking that is where true Arabs originate.

No, he is a Somali ethnically. The reason why Somalia is part of the Arab League is due to the sizable Arab minority within Somalia and because Arab culture, language etc. has influenced Somalia heavily. The vocabulary of Somali language is heavily influenced by Arabic (like a lot of other languages spoken in the Muslim world) and they also traditionally used the Arabic scripture. Many ruling dynasties in Somalia were also originally Arab. Arabic is an official language as well. In fact Arabs have influenced the Sahel region, Swahili coastline etc. tremendously and Arabic is still the lingua franca in those regions when different ethnicities communicate with each other and it remains the language of business, high culture and obviously the lingua franca of Islam like it does for all Muslims.

Anyway based on this several currently non-Arab League Member states could become members from Israel to Malta let alone the current observer states such as Brazil, Venezuela and numerous other countries. France as well. Indonesia, Malaysia etc. Too many to mention if the only crucial thing here is an Arab minority.

The story in neighboring Djibouti is the same as the one in Somalia. Chad, Eritrea etc. are other examples of similar countries and in those two the Arab minorities are sizable.

Northern Sudanese are Afro-Arabs (Arabs mixed with Nubians) which genetics confirm and of course we consider them Arabs just as well as they consider themselves Arabs. Likewise we consider the 10 million or so Afro-Arabs in the remaining 19 Arab countries to be Arabs.

Also Sudanese come in many shapes and forms.

This guys is half Sudanese:

Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Siddig

It's no secret that Black genes are dominating but the majority of Northern Sudanese' paternal origin is Arabic which DNA also confirms and their lineages/surnames.

This girl below is half Yemeni and half Chinese and her name is Fera Feriska:

99% of all people would look at her and conclude that she is fully East Asian. Once again, which is widely known, this shows that East Asian genes are stronger than Caucasian genes when mixing occurs.

He could fit in every single Arab country without a problem and nobody would look at him as a foreigner..

"Phonecian" look? What is that? Phoenicians were an Semitic people from the Near East just as Arabs. I doubt that there was much of a difference in terms of other pre-Arab Semitic people of the region. Secondly you can find such people in every single Arab country. When I say Arabic country I do not include Somalia and Djibouti here.

Anyway I think that we had this discussion a while ago and I think it's obvious for everyone that the vast majority of the 450 million Arabs have a similar physical appearance which is widely recognized and confirmed by DNA, simple, geography, pre-Islamic history, Islamic history etc. Even European racialists, as already pointed out, considered the Arab world to be inhabited by primarily Mediterranean/Arabid (almost identical people according to them) peoples.

It's likewise obvious that the Arab world is diverse. Which region this big, despite being geographically connected and lying on similar latitudes, and this populous would not be?

I hope you realize that there is something called fus7a Arabic (Modern Standard Arabic which derives from Classical Arabic) that is thought in the entire Arab world and which almost every single literate Arab can speak. Besides most of those Arabic dialects are mutually intelligible. In fact everyone east of Tunisia can more or less understand every single Arabic dialect. The "struggle" here is Maghrebi but even that can be learned extremely quickly by any native Arabic speaker.

Assyrians, who are Semites and related to Arabs, exist to this very day. There is nothing called "Greek Copts". Copts, who are related people to Arabs, are natives of Egypt and there are over 10 million of them. Berbers, who are related to Arabs as well, exist however they have intermarried with Arabs for 1400 years and given rise to the Arab-Berber identity which is predominant in Morocco and Algeria. There are 20 million of them in the Arab world. Tuaregs are not native to the Arab world but Mali and I believe that less than 1 million of them live in Southern Algeria. Circassians are fairly recent migrants and not native to the Arab world and small in numbers. Same with Armenians. Phoenicians became extinct millennia ago just like the vast majority of all of our ancient Semitic (mostly) ancestors. Somali people are not Arabs although there is a minority of Arabs in Somalia and a sizable percentage of Somalis have mixed with Arabs since pre-Islamic times. Sudanese (which did not exist prior to the arrival of Arabs) are Arabs mixed with Nubians (native people) as I wrote. Genetically (paternal ancestry) Northern Sudanese are almost entirely Arab but they have been intermarrying with local Nubian women and others for over 1 millennia.

The native homeland of Arabs are the borderlands of Sham, Mesopotamia and Northern Arabia. That's where the first traces of a Semitic people called Arabs emerged almost 3000 years ago. During Prophet Muhammad (saws) lifetime most of Arabia did not even speak Arabic. So Arabization took place all over and Arabs mixed and married with everyone and vice versa. The first Arabs were the product of native people, they did not come from elsewhere but the Arab world. Similar to how Aramaicazation occurred previously.

Similarly when the Roman Empire ruled parts of the Arab world the local Semitic/Hamitic people did not change. In fact most of the Roman Emperors from Philip the Arab to numerous others were not ethnic Romans (as in people from Rome and today's Italy) but today's Arab world and Balkans. In pre-Islamic times Greek was a very important language for the people of Arabia, Levant and Egypt. That however did not make them Greek.

Besides most of the people of Southern Europe descend from Neolithic farmers native to today's Arab world in particular Sham, Iraq and Northern Arabia (where farming originated). Another thing to have in mind.

Other than that everything else is described in detail in my previous post.

In regards to Israel, why should animosity continue in case of peace? I see no logic in this whatsoever given the facts that I wrote in my initial post.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Talking of the Arab world my brother recently came back from holiday from Marocco. He is all praise for Morocco. Here below in Marakech with snake charmer.

And at the hotel.