Nuclear Pakistan - credit where it is due

[ProudPak]

Didnt ZAB lose east Pakistan.
Yet here we are praising a man that for personal gain destroyed a country.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Pakistan would have achieved nukes with or without ZAB.. nukes are in our destiny

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Didnt ZAB lose east Pakistan.
Yet here we are praising a man that for personal gain destroyed a country.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Pakistan would have achieved nukes with or without ZAB.. nukes are in our destiny

He was not the only one responsible for the loss of east Pakistan. And yes without him
We would not be a nuclear power for various reasons political economic and required spine if you want I will elaborate
I am not a ppp fan I know he was a womanizer and a heavy drinker but...

if anyone wants to know truer history/story of Pakistans nuclear program and has no time to espy volumes he/she should read
Shahid Ur Rehman's long road to chagai
its a page turner, a thriller and historically/factually accurate.

 

[Baghial]

" Youm-e-Takbir " May 28 : The Day Pakistan became Nuclear Power.

Pakistan detonated seven Nuclear devices in response to Indian test in 1998. The test made Pakistan Nation to possess Nuclear weapons and the first in the Muslim World

Actually it was 2 . Nuclear tests..
First 8/10 ktons
Second 4/5 ktons.
There other were not nuclear..
Cant do ..5 test in 1 tunnel....
To lenthy to explain 2u..
I know u will ask..

Such close-quarters spying efforts are expected but nothing extraordinary in comparison to what Syria, Iraq and Iran experienced in terms of sabotaging efforts.

Based on records becoming public, CIA, MI-6 and GISS knew a great deal about nuclear-related developments in Pakistan, and one of the European colleagues of Dr. Qadeer Khan also spilled the beans some years back when Pakistani nuclear proliferation reports surfaced. In fact, Ronald Reagan openly supported Pakistan's nuclear program, his hatred for India notwithstanding. Then in the 1980s, US and Pakistan became very close to thwart Soviet efforts to subjugate Afghanistan (Operation Cyclone), and it was during this period that Pakistan had developed the bomb but tests were carried out in 1998 in response to Indian.

Iran have a long history of busting many spies over the course of years. Consider this incident: https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-spies-caught-fear-execution-middle-east/story?id=14994428

Still, did not stop NSA-CIA-MOSSAD nexus from ruining the centrifuges of heavily guarded and isolated Natanz facility in 2014: https://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/

We should be humble in our judgement and thank Allah Almighty for making this possible - he creates 'wasilley'.

The most impressive march towards becoming a nuclear power is that of DPRK. How it pulled it off in spite of being heavy sanctions and lack of access to European nuclear markets of the 1960s - 1970s - just wow.

China also deserve credit for helping Pakistan achieve its nuclear ambitions - lot of it.

..KRL..AND PAEC... BOTH HAD CAPABILITIES TO DO TESTS...
2 TESTS WERE OF PAEC..AND THE REST TESTS FOR MISSLES.. KRL......
ONLY 2 WERE NUCLEAR TESTS....

 

[Manidabest]

credit goes to many people for it but Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto with his vision is the pioneer along with those scientist like Dr. Muneer who convinced to go down this path ...Great People of a Great Nation..

 

[SABRE]

Didnt ZAB lose east Pakistan.
Yet here we are praising a man that for personal gain destroyed a country.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Pakistan would have achieved nukes with or without ZAB.. nukes are in our destiny

How exactly did he lose East Pakistan?

 

[ProudPak]

How exactly did he lose East Pakistan?

Hum yhan tum wahan. You dont know this infamous speech and it's common knowledge who won the elections.

 

[SABRE]

Hum yhan tum wahan. You dont know this infamous speech and it's common knowledge who won the elections.

So he made a speech and East Pakistan broke away?

 

[ProudPak]

So he made a speech and East Pakistan broke away?

I think you need to read what this man has done

 

[SABRE]

I think you need to read what this man has done

That's not the answer to my question. I don't even care if Bhutto was a nice person or not. I want to know how did his speech end up breaking East Pakistan?

 

[ProudPak]

That's not the answer to my question. I don't even care if Bhutto was a nice person or not. I want to know how did his speech end up breaking East Pakistan?

Then go read...I am not here to babysit it you and stuff a dummy in your mouth. If you can type you can Google l. Stop asking dumb questions

 

[SABRE]

Then go read...I am not here to babysit it you and stuff a dummy in your mouth. If you can type you can Google l. Stop asking dumb questions

Why so offensive? I can google & I can read. But Google & Wikipedia are no places for research or to gain knowledge from. Talk about JStore and the likes of it. But that's beside the point. The point is whether you can prove congruency, causal mechanism and causal links between Bhutto's speech and actions and the fall of Dhaka? There is no one in Pakistan today making controversial statements against Balochs, yet we have Baloch insurgency. Congruence and causal explanations are very simple research methods. Since you are fond of Google, do a search on these methods and put whatever literature you have been reading to test to prove (or disprove) your argument. Bhutto at best was one of the last intervening phenomena and by no means the antecedent phenomenon in the creation of Bangladesh. In simple, he is "ONE" of the last straws that broke the camel's back. But his worth was exactly that of straw compared to the burden put on East Pakistan by the West Pakistani establishment.

Coming to the topic, Bhutto is the soul and sole mastermind of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. Had there been someone else in his place I don't see Pakistan with nukes then. He came up with the proposal in the 1960s and the establishment scoffed at him. Post-1979, that very same establishment appointed itself as the hero and saviour of the programme, which it definitely is, but credit is due where credit belongs.

 

[SIPRA]

Why so offensive? I can google & I can read. But Google & Wikipedia are no places for research or to gain knowledge from. Talk about JStore and the likes of it. But that's beside the point. The point is whether you can prove congruency, causal mechanism and causal links between Bhutto's speech and actions and the fall of Dhaka? There is no one in Pakistan today making controversial statements against Balochs, yet we have Baloch insurgency. Concurrency and causal explanations are very simple research method. Since you are fond of Google, do a search on these methods and put whatever literature you have been reading to test to prove (or disprove) your argument. Bhutto at best was one of the last intervening phenomena and by no means the antecedent phenomenon in the creation of Bangladesh. In simple, he is "ONE" of the last straws that broke the camel's back. But his worth was exactly that of straw compared to the burden put on East Pakistan by the West Pakistani establishment.

I believe that clubbing East and West Pakistan, together, as one country, in 1947, was a mistake, which was corrected in 1971, albeit under far from pleasant circumstances. It was not possible for these two geographically separate entities, with a hostile country in between, to remain together for long.

ZAB had no role whatsoever in the breakup of Pakistan in 1971. Reference a previous post by another poster, Bhutto never uttered the words "Udhar Tum, Idhar Hum", commonly ascribed to him. Based upon his speech, this phrase was coined by the journalist Abbas Athar and produced as a headline in his tabloid news paper "Daily Azad". From there, it was picked by Bhutto's opponents and given a currency.

Coming to the topic, Bhutto is the soul and sole mastermind of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. Had there been someone else in his place I don't see Pakistan with nukes then. He came up with the proposal in the 1960s and the establishment scoffed at him. Post-1979, that very same establishment appointed itself as the hero and saviour of the programme, which it definitely is, but credit is due where credit belongs.

You are perfectly right.

 

[M. Sarmad]

ZAB is probably the last leftist leader who actually cared for defence.

PPP 1970 Election Manifesto:


X - NATIONAL DEFENCE
The shortcomings of our system of military defence must be made good. Since previous governments have not taken the trouble of establishing an infrastructure of heavy industries comprising the production of iron and steel, the manufacture of machine tools and the working of non- ferrous metals, we are dependent today upon foreign countries for the importation of most types of weapons and military equipment. The greater numbers of weapons used by the defence forces are capable of being manufactured in Pakistan itself.

The socialist regime will establish an armaments industry adequate for national requirements. For this purpose the basic industries will have to be established first. For example, the production of steel of the qualities required facilities for manufacturing machine tools and heavy chemicals, plants for the production of chemicals used in the making of explosives. The manufacture of vehicles and motors will be undertaken. It ought to be possible to meet the military requirements of vehicles, even of armored types, from local production, except for such as axe of special nature and whose production will not repay the trouble. The manufacture of ballistic and guided missiles will form part of the armaments programmes.

Pakistan will develop its nuclear capability to prepare for all eventualities.

The defence of East Pakistan will be strengthened by the establishment there of adequate military installations for ground forces, the air force and the navy, and the stationing in the country of the requisite military personnel so that any attempt a t aggression from outside can be both repulsed and punished. The Party insists upon:

(a)The rights of every man to bear arms to protect his own life and the life and honour of his family;
(b) and his right to defend his against foreign aggression.

A ‘Peoples Army’ will be created in all regions of the country. This will offer the substitute for the defence in depth which is geographically lacking. The existence of a people’s is the best deterrent to foreign aggression.

 

[B.K.N]

PPP 1970 Election Manifesto:


X - NATIONAL DEFENCE
The shortcomings of our system of military defence must be made good. Since previous governments have not taken the trouble of establishing an infrastructure of heavy industries comprising the production of iron and steel, the manufacture of machine tools and the working of non- ferrous metals, we are dependent today upon foreign countries for the importation of most types of weapons and military equipment. The greater numbers of weapons used by the defence forces are capable of being manufactured in Pakistan itself.

The socialist regime will establish an armaments industry adequate for national requirements. For this purpose the basic industries will have to be established first. For example, the production of steel of the qualities required facilities for manufacturing machine tools and heavy chemicals, plants for the production of chemicals used in the making of explosives. The manufacture of vehicles and motors will be undertaken. It ought to be possible to meet the military requirements of vehicles, even of armored types, from local production, except for such as axe of special nature and whose production will not repay the trouble. The manufacture of ballistic and guided missiles will form part of the armaments programmes.

Pakistan will develop its nuclear capability to prepare for all eventualities.

The defence of East Pakistan will be strengthened by the establishment there of adequate military installations for ground forces, the air force and the navy, and the stationing in the country of the requisite military personnel so that any attempt a t aggression from outside can be both repulsed and punished. The Party insists upon:

(a)The rights of every man to bear arms to protect his own life and the life and honour of his family;
(b) and his right to defend his against foreign aggression.

A ‘Peoples Army’ will be created in all regions of the country. This will offer the substitute for the defence in depth which is geographically lacking. The existence of a people’s is the best deterrent to foreign aggression.

PPP didn't promised for Bhutto's most favorite force federal security force in election manifesto
which was used to kill the opponents of father of jamhoriat ZAB

 

[M. Sarmad]

Didnt ZAB lose east Pakistan.
Yet here we are praising a man that for personal gain destroyed a country.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Pakistan would have achieved nukes with or without ZAB.. nukes are in our destiny

Suhrawardy had led demands for an independent Bengal as early as April 1947, he was a Bengali nationalist who forged alliances with Communists and other leftist parties against the party he was forced to leave in 1948 i.e The Muslim League, and joined the Bengali nationalist Awami League

Fazlul Haq, a leftist and social democrat, had left Muslim League in 1937 to form his own socialist party KPP (later revived as KSP). He rejoined ML for few years but subsequently resigned. He was dismissed and put under house arrest on charges that he wanted independence for East Bengal

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/udha...-edge-of-pakistan.592282/page-9#post-11031707

PPP didn't promised for Bhutto's most favorite force federal security force in election manifesto
which was used to kill the opponents of father of jamhoriat ZAB

The 1970 Manifesto of the party declared that there would be a federal force apart from police and army.