Now we've democratically elected a totalitarian government- Arunadhati Roy

[manlion]

RSS salute

Nazi salute

 

[janon]

Mama 'Joe', Mrs. Arora, Luthra who ran the refugee camps, Mrs. Luthra, Buchi Das (son's daughter of C. R. Das), Jagjit Arora, Osmany, Siddhartha Ray (daughter's son of C. R. Das), Jake Jacob, Papa 'Joe'. Joe is on one knee in front, with his kid brother and baby sister.

Sorry, but could you walk this rather dull mind through this? As @Bang Galore says it might sound stupid on a defence forum not to understand this after so many posts, but at the risk of appearing dim, I have to ask - who exactly is Joe senior?

I had noticed the profile pic and had wanted to ask about it, but I was waiting for it to come up sometime.

To everybody else: The point that Joe was making early on is quite simple - forget for a moment concepts like freedom of speech or thought or expression. Forget for now, all those questions about whether freedom of speech should have limits and so on.

But when you are on the forum, and read something you don't like, attack the idea, not the person. Avoid ad hominems, and dismantle the argument instead - is that a concept too difficult to understand?

What is the point of this name calling and sexist remarks? Bitch, whore, liberal fascist, blah blah.

And because she is a female, there have to be remarks about her sexlife also, is it? She should get married, we should get her a dildo, she is ugly, her niece is prettier - seriously, WTF? How does her appearance or marital status or sexlife matter here? If it was a man who wrote this, I am sure that members here won't be worrying about his onanism habits or sexlife. Leave personal matters aside and address the message. At least that much can be agreed upon, without going into the larger point about her freedom of speech, can't it?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sorry, but could you walk this rather dull mind through this? As @Bang Galore says it might sound stupid on a defence forum not to understand this after so many posts, but at the risk of appearing dim, I have to ask - who exactly is Joe senior?

I had noticed the profile pic and had wanted to ask about it, but I was waiting for it to come up sometime.

To everybody else: The point that Joe was making early on is quite simple - forget for a moment concepts like freedom of speech or thought or expression. Forget for now, all those questions about whether freedom of speech should have limits and so on.

But when you are on the forum, and read something you don't like, attack the idea, not the person. Avoid ad hominems, and dismantle the argument instead - is that a concept too difficult to understand?

What is the point of this name calling and sexist remarks? Bitch, whore, liberal fascist, blah blah.

And because she is a female, there have to be remarks about her sexlife also, is it? She should get married, we should get her a dildo, she is ugly, her niece is prettier - seriously, WTF? How does her appearance or marital status or sexlife matter here? If it was a man who wrote this, I am sure that members here won't be worrying about his onanism habits or sexlife. Leave personal matters aside and address the message. At least that much can be agreed upon, without going into the larger point about her freedom of speech, can't it?

On private mail, if you don't mind?

And thank you for the elementary lesson in manners that you handed out to this scummy bunch. Did me a treat to read it.

 

[Indischer]

On private mail, if you don't mind?

And thank you for the elementary lesson in manners that you handed out to this scummy bunch. Did me a treat to read it.

One here as well, if you don't mind.

 

[scorpionx]

On private mail, if you don't mind?

And thank you for the elementary lesson in manners that you handed out to this scummy bunch. Did me a treat to read it.

If you don't mind,sir. Here is another one.

@[URL='http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/golwalkar.html']Was Guru Golwalkar a Nazi?[/URL]

I am becoming very much interested in Koenraad Elst's writings especially after reading this in one of his article on Ayodhya controversy.

Hindusthan was always a proverbially rich country. Now, mother Theresa has made it something of a synonym with poverty. But this poverty cannot be blamed on Hindu culture.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

"Ms Roy believes that India’s chosen development model has a genocidal core to it. “How have the other ‘developed’ countries progressed? Through wars and by colonising and usurping the resources of other countries and societies,” she says. “India has no option but to colonise itself.” "

No option eh. Then why the long rant?

Exactly. India has every right to colonise itself. We are not colonising anyone else.

Poor people should have only two options either catch up with modern times and modern ways or die. Staying poor and not allowing the rest of country to develop as well just cannot be an option anymore.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@janon
@Indischer
@scorpionx

I've just written a rather incoherent ramble to janon on private mail, and shall repeat it to you other two, with profound apologies for the bad quality of the piece. It just doesn't bring out the man. Perhaps I will prepare a better account when I have more time.

 

[janon]

I've just written a rather incoherent ramble to janon on private mail, and shall repeat it to you other two, with profound apologies for the bad quality of the piece. It just doesn't bring out the man. Perhaps I will prepare a better account when I have more time.

Thank you so much for the mail. I could not ask on PM myself, as non titled members cannot initiate PMs as of now. I request you send the same to the others who are curious as well - after all, most of us are here because of our interest in these matters, and since @Bang Galore sparked everybody's curiosity with that tidbt about your illustrious family, it's not fair to keep us in the dark!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Actually it's a bit embarrassing. He was a larger than life figure, and was remembered and revered even, long after he retired. Even as late as 2012 - he retired in 1978 - his word was law. Let me know what you make of it, and if you want me to emphasise any aspect of his work. His campaigns against the Naxalites, for instance. I was in the ambiguous position at that time of having a foot in both camps; although I loathed the bloody ways of the Naxals, I was horrified at how they were hunted down.

 

[Soumitra]

The defiance of international law, and the resort to force in re-occupying Goa stands in sharp contrast to the peaceful negotiation and the transfer of the territories of other colonial powers who were still in possession of Indian soil after the British left us independent. It is not defensible, even under the rubric of liberating Indian soil under colonial occupation. The PRC could have done the same very easily for Hong Kong or for Macau; they are reputed to be a far more violent power than India. They did not; they negotiated. I don't think this was the most savoury chapter in Indian diplomacy or Indian statehood.

You are wrong here. The Indian Govt did try to negotiate with the Portuguese for the peaceful transfer of territory but it was not successful.

On 27 February 1950, the Government of India asked the Portuguese government to open negotiations about the future of Portuguese colonies in India.[15] Portugal asserted that its territory on the Indian subcontinent was not a colony but part of metropolitan Portugal and hence its transfer was non-negotiable; and that India had no rights to this territory because the Republic of India did not exist at the time when Goa came under Portuguese rule.[16] When the Portuguese Government refused to respond to subsequent aide-mémoires in this regard, the Indian government, on 11 June 1953, withdrew its diplomatic mission from Lisbon.[17]

By 1954, the Republic of India instituted visa restrictions on travel from Goa to India which paralysed transportation between Goa and other exclaves like Daman, Diu, Dadra and Nagar Haveli.[15] Meanwhile, the Indian Union of Dockers had, in 1954, instituted a boycott on shipping to Portuguese India.[18] Between 22 July and 2 August 1954, armed activists attacked and forced the surrender of Portuguese forces stationed in Dadra and Nagar Haveli.[19]

On 15 August 1955, 3000–5000 unarmed Indian activists[20] attempted to enter Goa at six locations and were violently repulsed by Portuguese police officers, resulting in the deaths of between 21[21] and 30[22] people.[23] The news of the massacre built public opinion in India against the presence of the Portuguese in Goa.[24] On 1 September 1955, India shut its consul office in Goa.[25]

In 1956, Portuguese ambassador to France, Marcello Mathias, along with Portuguese Prime Minister António de Oliveira Salazar, argued in favour of a referendum in Goa to determine its future. This proposal was however rejected by the Ministers for Defence and Foreign Affairs. The demand for a referendum was again made by presidential candidate General Humberto Delgado in 1957.[15]

Prime Minister Salazar, alarmed by India’s hinted threats at armed action against its presence in Goa, first asked the United Kingdom to mediate, then protested through Brazil and eventually asked the United Nations Security Council to intervene.[26] Mexico offered the Indian government its influence in Latin America to bring pressure on the Portuguese to relieve tensions.[27] Meanwhile, Krishna Menon, India’s defence minister and head of India’s UN delegation, stated in no uncertain terms that India had not "abjured the use of force" in Goa,[26] The U.S. ambassador to India, John Kenneth Galbraith, requested the Indian government on several occasions to resolve the issue peacefully through mediation and consensus rather than armed conflict.[28][29]

1961 Indian annexation of Goa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Soumitra

I really wouldn't count "not abjuring the use of force" as negotiating.

You may (or may not) be aware of the respective strength of PRC troops around Hong Kong and Macau, vis-a-vis the British and the Portuguese troops in those two enclaves. In spite of overwhelming strength, the Chinese were patient, and waited.

 

[harpoon]

@Soumitra

I really wouldn't count "not abjuring the use of force" as negotiating.

You may (or may not) be aware of the respective strength of PRC troops around Hong Kong and Macau, vis-a-vis the British and the Portuguese troops in those two enclaves. In spite of overwhelming strength, the Chinese were patient, and waited.

Bcs the Chinese knew that that HK and Macau will return back to PRC when the lease expires. Not such agreement in place with Goa. Also the Chinese were dealing with a major world power when they were isolated in the world stage......they may not wanted to risk further isolation. Not to mention HK was the gateway of Communist China to the goodsand services of Western World during the Cold War.

 

[nana41]

Like you, i also have an opinion and i shared it on this thread. if you have any problems with it then you are free to cry me an ocean.

And for the question of sanity, you should be last person to comment on that, Mr. Lance corporal .

Is Lance Corporal like a Dalit(low worth) in Indian Army?.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Is Lance Corporal like a Dalit(low worth) in Indian Army?.

That is the first rank you get as a Non-Commissioned Officer in the infantry or other arms, other than Cavalry or Armour, after Sipahi. Cavalry and Armour units have a very odd hybrid equivalent.

Dalit?

What an odd expression to use in this context. Why Dalit? And what was the kind of position that you visualised being held by these lower-ranked NCOs? I seriously am curious to know.

 

[nair]

That is the first rank you get as a Non-Commissioned Officer in the infantry or other arms, other than Cavalry or Armour, after Sipahi. Cavalry and Armour units have a very odd hybrid equivalent.

Dalit?

What an odd expression to use in this context. Why Dalit? And what was the kind of position that you visualised being held by these lower-ranked NCOs? I seriously am curious to know.

May be the way we use that word gave him a feeling that being Dalit is like having a low life..... I guess we should blame ourselves for giving such ideas....