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Now, Modi govt too refuses to name foreign bank account holders

Its like putting cart before the ox. Unless and until we come to know about the names of the people who have got account in Swiss Banks, how can we start investigation whether their money is ligitimate or not!

We cant randomly pick a person and expect the Government to cross check their list and tell us whether he is innocent or not.

Fact is all the political parties are neck deep in corruption and they are saving each other's asses. Swiss black money was just a political gimmick for them. We are the fools of first order if we expect them to be honest!
 
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I feel its a bit of U turn. Congress also said the same according to the treaty. Now BJP blaming Congress for signing the 1995 treaty. Thing is the other countries wouldnt have signed the treaty if the disclousure clause is not present.

I hope the money is brought back. BJP should explain to the people if possible apologize if the black money probe gets delayed.
 
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NEW DELHI: The Narendra Modi government on Friday endorsed the Congress-led UPA's position that double taxation avoidance treaties with other countries barred it from revealing names of all Indians having accounts in foreign banks. The statement led senior advocate Ram Jethmalani to accuse finance minister Arun Jaitley and attorney general Mukul Rohatgi of diluting the government's stand on black money.

READ ALSO: Black money case — Can't disclose names of foreign account holders, Modi govt tells SC

Jethmalani, who is the petitioner in the case, was provoked by an application moved by Rohatgi seeking modification of the apex court's earlier order directing that names of account holders in foreign banks be revealed.

In the application, the government said that while it was ready to disclose to Jethmalani the names of account holders who were to face prosecution for stashing illegal money abroad, it would not share with him the identity of those who had legitimate accounts in foreign banks.

READ ALSO: Advocate-on-record snap ties with Ram Jethmalani

This angered Jethmalani, who has persisted for five years to finally convince the apex court to set up a specialized team for recovery of black money deposited by Indians in foreign banks.

"The government has made an application which should have been filed by the criminals. I am amazed. I have written a letter to the Prime Minister and have asked him to treat this as my dying declaration," said the veteran lawyer who is a suspended BJP member of Rajya Sabha.

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The vehement reaction led a bench of Chief Justice H L Dattu and Justices Madan B Lokur and A K Sikri to request Jethmalani to cool down while they turned down his plea to dismiss the Centre's application. The bench said it had to hear both sides.

READ ALSO: Switzerland agree to assist Centre in HSBC fund hunt

Outside the court room, Jethmalani was vitriolic in his criticism of Jaitley and the AG for drafting such an application and said it flew in the face of the BJP, which had all along supported his efforts to bring back black money and opposed the devious stand taken by the UPA government.

"Now, they are adopting the stand which was a result of a fraud played on the country by the Manmohan Singh government," Jethmalani told reporters.

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Finance minister Arun Jaitley

Jaitley rejected the charge that Modi government was reluctant to disclose the names of those having illicit foreign accounts. "Is the present NDA government led by Modi in any way reluctant to make some names public? Certainly not. We have no difficulty in making names public. But they can be made public only in accordance with due process of law. And the due process of law has been constrained by the DTAA (Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement) which was entered into between India and Germany when the Congress party was in power on June 19, 1995," he told reporters.

The finance minister said while he would not comment on the merits of the DTAA the Congress government signed with Germany in 1995, the fact was that adherence to it formed "part of the due process of law".

Rohatgi also dismissed Jethmalani's charge as "unwarranted and unfortunate", saying the application reflected the constraints government faces because of its obligations under a bilateral treaty. He said while the Centre had no objection to making public the names of those holding accounts in foreign banks who were facing prosecution for stashing illegal wealth abroad, it was opposed to clubbing those having illicit accounts foreign accounts with those having legitimate ones. "Mere opening of an account abroad legitimately is not a crime," he said.

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Rohatgi said the government had in good faith and in compliance with the Supreme Court's directive revealed the names of all Indian account holders in Liechtenstein Bank to Jethmalani on the condition that he would not disclose them to others. However, he went on to put all the names in the public domain, provoking serious objections from the German government. Allowing more such things could be a spoiler for similar double taxation avoidance treaties the government plans to ink with many foreign countries, including a crucial one with the US in December, the AG said.


READ ALSO: Cong claims vindication, says Modi misled people on black money

He said if the German government's objections, which were valid on the basis of the DTAA signed by the previous government, was not respected, then other countries would not reveal the source of black money from India stashed in their banks.

"The end result is that our fight against black money will get defeated if foreign governments refuse to share information about Indian account holders in banks of their countries," Rohatgi said.
Heard that there was an agreement between the previous govt that the names should not be disclosed. Will try to find more info if time permits tomo.
 
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Patience young one , they still got 4 and a half years left , itna despo math ho to blame BJP.

True, they still have more than enough time to show results, but you can't ignore 2 simple facts. It was the BJP that made big promises and raised the expectations sky high, not the voter / public and they now state the same things they opposed when the former government stated it. Which is an important point, since the same claims now would apply to them as well. It would be one thing to say, we are working on it but reached only at X stage, but presenting the same (short term) result as the former government is showing that they are facing the same problems and therefor that the former governments statements were correct.
In the defence field we see the same too, where the DM is facing the same problems Avro replacement as his predecessor, by the Indian privat industry not real be interested in the deal, which causes delays in the replacement.
So besides the re-naming of policies that the former government had, we see the same issues if the new government is facing the same problems. It's up to the NDA now to find new ways to get around these issues and show results at some point.
 
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True, they still have more than enough time to show results, but you can't ignore 2 simple facts. It was the BJP that made big promises and raised the expectations sky high, not the voter / public and they now state the same things they opposed when the former government stated it. Which is an important point, since the same claims now would apply to them as well. It would be one thing to say, we are working on it but reached only at X stage, but presenting the same (short term) result as the former government is showing that they are facing the same problems and therefor that the former governments statements were correct.
In the defence field we see the same too, where the DM is facing the same problems Avro replacement as his predecessor, by the Indian privat industry not real be interested in the deal, which causes delays in the replacement.
So besides the re-naming of policies that the former government had, we see the same issues if the new government is facing the same problems. It's up to the NDA now to find new ways to get around these issues and show results at some point.

The previous govt. tried everything they could to delay the creation of the SIT . And not to mention the Gazillion other scams they were involved in also reduced the credibility to bring black money out . So any comment from the government was neither credible or was it believable . While govt. on first day at office constituted the SIT(thought at order of SC.) . You can also see results of Swiss willing to share data with India and not to mention same with other countries as well. Simple thing is , when NDA makes the same reasoning its far more believable and trust worthy . And no , govt. did a lot more than "renaming policies" its a rather ridicules effort by few to equate congress with BJP. I have been telling people for a long time, reforms will come slowly in span of 1-2 years maybe even 3 , depending on their strength in the RS.
 
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The previous govt. tried everything they could to delay the creation of the SIT . And not to mention the Gazillion other scams they were involved in also reduced the credibility to bring black money out . So any comment from the government was neither credible or was it believable .

If you don't seperate the issues of course, it's not believable, but still it turned out to be true now, since the new government is stating the same. So even if the former government did badly with the scams and so on, they were right about what they said on black money and that's a credit one have to give too. It simply wasn't all bad and they simply didn't do all wrong, but the scams were major issues and "therefor" they needed to be punished!


While govt. on first day at office constituted the SIT(thought at order of SC.) . You can also see results of Swiss willing to share data with India and not to mention same with other countries as well.

Again, not that surprising that a new government shows action after being elected, what matters however are results and the SIT does not changes the results so far. And no, Switzerland is not sharing any important data, otherwise we would see results that at least differ from what the former government stated and achived.

Simple thing is , when NDA makes the same reasoning its far more believable and trust worthy .

Same as above mentioned, it was more believable in the election time and when the general sentiment was to punish the UPA. But that's past, now you have to look at what was promised by the NDA and hold them accountable for these promises and not just keep comparing with UPA2 and find excuses. If the NDA promised to rapidly bring black money back (and some of them made big promises about a 100 days timeframe), that is the bar they set themselfs, so that is what we as a public has to aim on!
If they now however state the same things that the former government stated too, it's undeniably a sign of not delivering their promises!

They started to work on it directly - good
But are at the same point as the former government - not good

So their performance so far doesn't give reason to believe that the black money will come back, but since a government term is 5 years, they still have more than enough time to change things to the positive and deliver!
 
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If you don't seperate the issues of course, it's not believable, but still it turned out to be true now, since the new government is stating the same. So even if the former government did badly with the scams and so on, they were right about what they said on black money and that's a credit one have to give too. It simply wasn't all bad and they simply didn't do all wrong, but the scams were major issues and "therefor" they needed to be punished!

The very fact that they delayed the creation of the SIT for 3 years proves that they had no interest in bringing back blackmoney Weather both the govt. are at the same point is irrelevant. Fact is the new government unlike the previous govt. has the intend and is doing the work to bring the money back .Besides that the govt. has not said the names won't come out. The govt. said names will come out when the charges are filed .

Again, not that surprising that a new government shows action after being elected, what matters however are results and the SIT does not changes the results so far. And no, Switzerland is not sharing any important data, otherwise we would see results that at least differ from what the former government stated and achived.

Swiss Ready to Share Black Money Details -The New Indian Express

IF this isn't an important data, then i don't know what is . You are not going to be seeing any visible results for some time . This isn't something which can create results overnight. Go read through Jaitley 's clarification on the matter.

Also it seems you fallen into the trap of the MSM and uttering their words repeatadly . The point that the media does not utter is that the Modi governments stand is on those people whose investigation is still pending anyone who is prosecuted will have his name revealed.

Below is what the Supreme Court says

"The revelation of details of bank accounts of individuals without establishment of prima facie grounds to accuse them of wrong doing, would be violation of their rights to privacy. Details of bank accounts can be used by those who want to harass or otherwise cause damage to individuals. We can't remain blind to such possibilities and indeed experience reveals that public dissemination of banking details or availability to unauthorised persons has let to abuse. The mere fact that a citizen has a bank account in a bank located in a particular jurisdiction cannot be a ground for revelation of details of his or her account that the state has acquired"

I suggest AAPtards to create a twitter trend #SupremecourtDhoka

" On October 15, 2014, a team of officials led by Revenue Secretary and comprising of Chairman, CBDT has signed a Joint Statement with the appropriate authorities in Switzerland with regard to investigation into black money stacked in Swiss banks. The four important aspects of that agreement are:

(i) With regard to the list available with India of account holders in the HSBC, where Indian tax authorities have conducted independent investigations, the Swiss would provide India with details upon our furnishing of adequate evidence in this regard.

(ii) Whenever India has some information/ documentary evidence, the Swiss would confirm the authenticity or otherwise of that evidence.

(iii) This would be done in a time bound manner.

(iv) Discussion would now start on a bilateral agreement on automatic exchange of information in the banking system. If this bilateral arrangement is arrived at, it will be an important milestone in detection of black money held by Indians in the Swiss banks. "

That is progress

Same as above mentioned, it was more believable in the election time and when the general sentiment was to punish the UPA. But that's past, now you have to look at what was promised by the NDA and hold them accountable for these promises and not just keep comparing with UPA2 and find excuses. If the NDA promised to rapidly bring black money back (and some of them made big promises about a 100 days timeframe), that is the bar they set themselfs, so that is what we as a public has to aim on!
If they now however state the same things that the former government stated too, it's undeniably a sign of not delivering their promises!

UPA govt could have got Liechtenstein bank data openly. However, intentionally they asked for it under DTAA. (UPA govt, by design, got the open info under DTAA under which info is privileged. Govt hands tied.) . So UPA goverment intentionally put the names under the DTAA and now is blaming the NDA government for not revealing names . So no ,you cannot in anyway blame the NDA for making the same stand.

They started to work on it directly - good
But are at the same point as the former government - not good

So their performance so far doesn't give reason to believe that the black money will come back, but since a government term is 5 years, they still have more than enough time to change things to the positive and deliver!

Well, thats your opinion , i for one will give them time to deliver . This is not something which can be done overnight and even you know that. If you are going to judge a govt. performance over the BS said in the Media then that is your fault.
 
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Discussed in the politics thread yesterday.
Having a foreign account, and money in it itself is not a crime.

The names of these people can only be disclosed once they are chargesheeted, and are being prosecuted.



Names will be announced once charges are filed . They are bound by treaty not to disclose the names . Kitne barr ye dicussion chalega :lol:


IF & When you file a chargesheet / case what is left to disclose it will automatically become public record ..................
 
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Well, thats your opinion , i for one will give them time to deliver . This is not something which can be done overnight and even you know that. If you are going to judge a govt. performance over the BS said in the Media then that is your fault.

No but based on the bar the NDA had raised and the promises they made! Unlike you, I don't see it from a party politics point of view, which is why I don't care about comparisions between the government. So I judge the performance of the government by what they intended to do and the results and since so far nothing has changed as they promised, it's a judgement of the current ground reality!
But as I said too, I am more than willing to wait till the end of the term, if things actually would change. That however doesn't mean I need to find excuses for the government now, that they couldn't keep their promises and have to revise their earlier statements.
 
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No but based on the bar the NDA had raised and the promises they made! Unlike you, I don't see it from a party politics point of view, which is why I don't care about comparisions between the government. So I judge the performance of the government by what they intended to do and the results and since so far nothing has changed as they promised, it's a judgement of the current ground reality!

"Nothing has changed" is a very shallow statement and not to mention grossly incorrect, I just feel that my entire post above has gone to waste . I clearly described how NDA cannot be blamed for the actions of the UPA and what the NDA has done till now and everything they do will not be made public . IF they announce the names they won't get the money ever and you will be blaming current govt. for that too . screwed if you do, screwed if you don't .

But as I said too, I am more than willing to wait till the end of the term, if things actually would change. That however doesn't mean I need to find excuses for the government now, that they couldn't keep their promises and have to revise their earlier statements.

Nothing here worth replying . judging a govt who has been there for 3 months and equating it to a govt. which was there for 10 years is the stupidest thing one can do. Which makes the "nothing has changed" a rather ludicrous argument ..
 
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Its like putting cart before the ox. Unless and until we come to know about the names of the people who have got account in Swiss Banks, how can we start investigation whether their money is ligitimate or not!

We cant randomly pick a person and expect the Government to cross check their list and tell us whether he is innocent or not.

Fact is all the political parties are neck deep in corruption and they are saving each other's asses. Swiss black money was just a political gimmick for them. We are the fools of first order if we expect them to be honest!


arey boss you are out of your depth here

gemany has handed over alist of 700 people who are having black money swiss account which they had obtianed from stolen sources

so the list is already with india

so there is no question of how can we know who has account?
 
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the list already putted in courts

well Modi Jaitley and BJP demanded that the list be made public

we are just asking the BJP to WALK THE TALK now when they are in the decision making seat

the list already putted in courts

well Modi Jaitley and BJP demanded that the list be made public

we are just asking the BJP to WALK THE TALK now when they are in the decision making seat
 
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well Modi Jaitley and BJP demanded that the list be made public
we are just asking the BJP to WALK THE TALK now when they are in the decision making seat
if list putted it court it automatically goes public or your Suspecting Supreme judiciary of our country is Corrupt too
 
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arey boss you are out of your depth here

gemany has handed over alist of 700 people who are having black money swiss account which they had obtianed from stolen sources

so the list is already with india

so there is no question of how can we know who has account?

You DID NOT understand my point. I said, are we going to the Government with the name of xyz individual and ask them whether his name is in the list?

The list should be on public domain. All those guys whose names are in the list should explain the sources of all this money.

The Government, by keeping the list close to its chest, is showing that its intent is not good. It gives the black money holders a chance to go off the hook.

Very very very bad and doubt raising decision by the Government.
 
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