Notify PAF Aircraft Crashes

[MastanKhan]

Its no way negligence. You can call it bad luck and slight miscalculation. The place where is crashed is near the start/edge of Nowshera...which comes directly in the path of runway. Wing-Wing close formations are naturally risky with no chances of error, add the landing case as well and you will get your answer.

The last mid-air collision of PAF aircraft happened in 2002, when two F-7PG collided during Hi-G maneuvering..luckily both ejected.

Hi,

There is nothing common in these two collision----except for carelessness and not following the procedure----.

There were 3 very experienced flyers in these two aircraft----. They did something that was not supposed to be done---they created---or one of the pilots created a scenario that should not have been ---which caused the accident.

I believe it was 1980-----Multan---my house is right next to the airport east sside---on the northern end of the runway---two traine airplanes take off from the air port----one pilot starts horse playing----started flying real close to the tail of the plane in the front---ended up chopping the tail---the plane in the front went head down---fell on a house killed the pilot and the trained----.

The real tragedy in this accident was that the culprit was alive--but the biggest tragedy was---the house it fell on---two girls ofmarriage age---all their dowries were burnt---did they get their money---I don't know----.

But propeller driven plane---colliding in mid air----that is negligence----as someone mentioned a news item here---that one of the planes came from the side to position itself next to the other and thus collided---if that was the observation----then thatmay be the truth----.

Fighter jocks do that kind of stuff---but they don't understand when it fails with other air craft---prop trainers are not as agile and move around a the fighter aircraft.

If there were pure trainees in these aircraft---it would be lack of kknowledge----with these senior pilots in their---there was 'horse play' involved----.

As usual----it will be brushed under the rug.

 

[Najam Khan]

Hi,

There is nothing common in these two collision----except for carelessness and not following the procedure----.

There were 3 very experienced flyers in these two aircraft----. They did something that was not supposed to be done---they created---or one of the pilots created a

scenario that should not have been ---which caused the accident.

................

Fighter jocks do that kind of stuff---but they don't understand when it fails with other air craft---prop trainers are not as agile and move around a the fighter

aircraft.

If there were pure trainees in these aircraft---it would be lack of kknowledge----with these senior pilots in their---there was 'horse play' involved----.

As usual----it will be brushed under the rug.

I am sorry to say sir but sitting behind a computer and speculating things is an easy job. Would you mind sharing the reasons behind you analysis? What knowledge you have about flying in FIS?, and what merits you think are set for pilots who take course at FIS and those who teach them the basic and advance instructor lessons?

Its really lame to call a tragic mid-air collision a result of 'horse play', the scenario which you believe was created by one of the pilots (even IF its true) isn't something out of the world. Every Air Force around the world practice dual landings and takeoffs, mistakes and miscalculation happen everyday everywhere...the may not result into an accident each time, but does that mean pilots don't take their job seriously?

 

[MastanKhan]

I am sorry to say sir but sitting behind a computer and speculating things is an easy job. Would you mind sharing the reasons behind you analysis? What knowledge you have about flying in FIS?, and what merits you think are set for pilots who take course at FIS and those who teach them the basic and advance instructor lessons?

Its really lame to call a tragic mid-air collision a result of 'horse play', the scenario which you believe was created by one of the pilots (even IF its true) isn't something out of the world. Every Air Force around the world practice dual landings and takeoffs, mistakes and miscalculation happen everyday everywhere...the may not result into an accident each time, but does that mean pilots don't take their job seriously?

Buddy--,

Stop this B S about my sitting behind a computer and saying what I do----. When you don't understand something---or it goes against your belief and hurts you ego---it becomes sitting behind the computer----.


And why are you sorry about saying it---because you are not confident about what you want to say---.

3 sdrn ldrs and 1 flying officer in two prop driven planes---were they sqdrn's of fighter aircraft---or were they air force ground or maintenance----and why were 2 sqdrn ldrs in one aircraft----. Their background is extremely crucial to what happened---and if they were fighter jocks----it is very obvious---if the news reporter is right that one of the plane was closing in to make formation---obviuosly it kept on slipping and sliding---.

We would also need to know what the experience was of those 4 officers in flying those planes----. Had they been regular Mushak flyers---ie----was it their permanent job flying mushaks before this accident or were they flying other kinds of aircraft---.

Next time you address me---please keep in mind---I am not a stupid young pakistani kid who just wants to talk---I am an experienced senior citizen---thank you.

 

[ziaulislam]

mastan sahab..it wasnt a regular flight, it was formation. in regular flight you argument would be right but in formation exercises these things can happen.

i dont understand why rockie pilots do formations as mentioned here though.

 

[kewell333]

Really deep sorrow for the Pilots, R I P

 

[MastanKhan]

mastan sahab..it wasnt a regular flight, it was formation. in regular flight you argument would be right but in formation exercises these things can happen.

i dont understand why rockie pilots do formations as mentioned here though.

My good man,

The most important question here is---were these full time mushak pilots or fighter aircraft pilots or other aircraft pilots---their primary full time job is the most important factor over here in ascertaining what happened----. Were they making a formation as the news reporter stated from eye witness accoutns ( am I correct on that )----if they were---then the prior questions are extremely important----what was their primary job----.

Bottomline---what were two sqdrn ldrs doing flying in mushak and a sqdrn ldr and a 'flying officer in another plane----what was the purpose of these highly trained officers in a mushak----. That is something that needs to be questioned----. If it was formation flying---what were they training for----.

 

[SQ8]

My good man,

The most important question here is---were these full time mushak pilots or fighter aircraft pilots or other aircraft pilots---their primary full time job is the most important factor over here in ascertaining what happened----. Were they making a formation as the news reporter stated from eye witness accoutns ( am I correct on that )----if they were---then the prior questions are extremely important----what was their primary job----.

Bottomline---what were two sqdrn ldrs doing flying in mushak and a sqdrn ldr and a 'flying officer in another plane----what was the purpose of these highly trained officers in a mushak----. That is something that needs to be questioned----. If it was formation flying---what were they training for----.

Perhaps if you showed flexibility you would like to learn that as part of the FIS(fighter instructor School) curriculum includes training these senior pilots to become flight instructors for cadets and other junior pilots.
Formation flying is an important aspect of fighter flying since and it is taught to all PAF pilots from the beginning of their careers and refreshed for them throughout their tenure.
The FIS teaches and refreshes this skill for all future instructor pilots and makes sure they are proficient at maintaining precise formation manoeuvres in all aircraft they will be teaching in as instructors at Risalpur. At FIS, you will see flt lt and sometimes even Sq Ldrs become students once again as they are taught by the instructors at FIS on become future instructors at Risalpur or Mianwali.
This includes the Super Mushak, the T-37..and the K-8 Karokaram.
It is practised again and again so that when these new instructors start teaching fresh cadets they are giving the finest example for those new nuggets to follow.

 

[epinephrine]

Buddy--,

Stop this B S about my sitting behind a computer and saying what I do----. When you don't understand something---or it goes against your belief and hurts you ego---it becomes sitting behind the computer----.


And why are you sorry about saying it---because you are not confident about what you want to say---.

3 sdrn ldrs and 1 flying officer in two prop driven planes---were they sqdrn's of fighter aircraft---or were they air force ground or maintenance----and why were 2 sqdrn ldrs in one aircraft----. Their background is extremely crucial to what happened---and if they were fighter jocks----it is very obvious---if the news reporter is right that one of the plane was closing in to make formation---obviuosly it kept on slipping and sliding---.

We would also need to know what the experience was of those 4 officers in flying those planes----. Had they been regular Mushak flyers---ie----was it their permanent job flying mushaks before this accident or were they flying other kinds of aircraft---.

Next time you address me---please keep in mind---I am not a stupid young pakistani kid who just wants to talk---I am an experienced senior citizen---thank you.

sorry to say sir but u dont seem to be."accident ho gia ab kia karain?kabar say nikal k phansi day din unhain??mistakes happen in every field.it was a pilot error and unfortunately they died.investigations will be done and pilots will be ordered to strictly adhere to the SOP.ur behaviour is similar to that of JUI which urged for inquiry after the JFT crash. so the jahil mullahs wanted to know abt the crash

 

[MastanKhan]

[/COLOR]

sorry to say sir but u dont seem to be."accident ho gia ab kia karain?kabar say nikal k phansi day din unhain??mistakes happen in every field.it was a pilot error and unfortunately they died.investigations will be done and pilots will be ordered to strictly adhere to the SOP.ur behaviour is similar to that of JUI which urged for inquiry after the JFT crash. so the jahil mullahs wanted to know abt the crash

Sir,

And your behaviour as usual is that of atypical pakistani----there is a problem---now hide your head somewhere and not confront the issue----because of your embarrassment.

Young man---that is what is done---after accident---you really are digging into the grave---sorting out evidence---and then you will hang the blame on the culprit---basically hanging him afterwards---.

Didn't it take over a year to hang the senior PILOT of the air blue accident----of negligence and of dereliction of duty.

That is what happens after the accidents.

 

[SQ8]

Sir,

And your behaviour as usual is that of atypical pakistani----there is a problem---now hide your head somewhere and not confront the issue----because of your embarrassment.

Young man---that is what is done---after accident---you really are digging into the grave---sorting out evidence---and then you will hang the blame on the culprit---basically hanging him afterwards---.

Didn't it take over a year to hang the senior PILOT of the air blue accident----of negligence and of dereliction of duty.

That is what happens after the accidents.

But no action was taken to force a change the attitude of such "old men" and their stubbornness about always being right and not regarding their juniors as qualified as well.
Had the man paid even a tiny bit of attention to his co-pilot(who may not have had the years of experience he had but was in his own right an excellent pilot and an ex-TOP GUN of the PAF).. a lot of families would still have their dear ones with them..but his ego prevailed and led many to their death.
Nothing has been done to alleviate that mentality.

 

[razgriz19]

Hi,

There is nothing common in these two collision----except for carelessness and not following the procedure----.

There were 3 very experienced flyers in these two aircraft----. They did something that was not supposed to be done---they created---or one of the pilots created a scenario that should not have been ---which caused the accident.

I believe it was 1980-----Multan---my house is right next to the airport east sside---on the northern end of the runway---two traine airplanes take off from the air port----one pilot starts horse playing----started flying real close to the tail of the plane in the front---ended up chopping the tail---the plane in the front went head down---fell on a house killed the pilot and the trained----.

The real tragedy in this accident was that the culprit was alive--but the biggest tragedy was---the house it fell on---two girls ofmarriage age---all their dowries were burnt---did they get their money---I don't know----.

But propeller driven plane---colliding in mid air----that is negligence----as someone mentioned a news item here---that one of the planes came from the side to position itself next to the other and thus collided---if that was the observation----then thatmay be the truth----.

Fighter jocks do that kind of stuff---but they don't understand when it fails with other air craft---prop trainers are not as agile and move around a the fighter aircraft.

If there were pure trainees in these aircraft---it would be lack of kknowledge----with these senior pilots in their---there was 'horse play' involved----.

As usual----it will be brushed under the rug.

WOW aren't you very quick on jumping to conclusions!

 

[Bratva]

WOW aren't you very quick on jumping to conclusions!

Because of his so called experience.

 

[Najam Khan]

Buddy--,

Stop this B S about my sitting behind a computer and saying what I do----. When you don't understand something---or it goes against your belief and hurts you ego---it becomes sitting behind the computer----.


And why are you sorry about saying it---because you are not confident about what you want to say---.

3 sdrn ldrs and 1 flying officer in two prop driven planes---were they sqdrn's of fighter aircraft---or were they air force ground or maintenance----and why were 2 sqdrn ldrs in one aircraft----. Their background is extremely crucial to what happened---and if they were fighter jocks----it is very obvious---if the news reporter is right that one of the plane was closing in to make formation---obviuosly it kept on slipping and sliding---.

We would also need to know what the experience was of those 4 officers in flying those planes----. Had they been regular Mushak flyers---ie----was it their permanent job flying mushaks before this accident or were they flying other kinds of aircraft---.

Next time you address me---please keep in mind---I am not a stupid young pakistani kid who just wants to talk---I am an experienced senior citizen---thank you.

Sir firstly if you want a healthy debate, leave this arrogant tone aside and talk objectively. Nobody cares what you are assuming from a selection words, you (and me just like others) are here to post you views on the topics, you don't need to educate me about posting.

Coming back to the original discussion. This is not about ego or you going against my believes. My basic question (which you trickily didn't replied) was under what knowledge,experience and merits you are accusing pilots of this so called 'horse play'?

You quickly skipped the questions I asked about your knowledge of FIS. You have given a false hypothesis that IF 3 Sqn Ldrs and 1 senior Flt Lt is involved in an accident then it means they have lack of experience, lack of training or that means they were just playing around...showing their flying guts to each other? I hope I'm not getting you wrong here?

The FIS question I asked in my earlier post has most of the answers of this discussion. Pilots from PAF/PA/PN or several other countries join FIS to learn basics lessons required for Qualified Fighter Instructor (QFI). Flt Lt and Sqn Ldrs join this course. Lessons about aerodynamics, engine,airmanship, meteorology and navigation are taught...those who pass the course return back to their respective squadrons as QFIs.

Everything at FIS is on a serious note. No body has any spare time and intentions to show his guts to each other.

 

[epinephrine]

Sir,

And your behaviour as usual is that of atypical pakistani----there is a problem---now hide your head somewhere and not confront the issue----because of your embarrassment.

Young man---that is what is done---after accident---you really are digging into the grave---sorting out evidence---and then you will hang the blame on the culprit---basically hanging him afterwards---.

Didn't it take over a year to hang the senior PILOT of the air blue accident----of negligence and of dereliction of duty.

That is what happens after the accidents.

investigation is already being carried out.its PAF not some bloody civil organization.action will also be taken i m sure.wat i m saying is that PAF is under no compulsion to publicize the result of inquiry report to low IQ politicians n media people or to some mr.mastan khan or epinephrine.wat needs to be done will be done i m sure.u can neither inquire nor punish a dead person.is that wat u want?

 

[baqai]

i know investigations involving airforce are internal matter, but did we ever found out what happened to the JF-17 which crashed? was it a pilot error or what?