Not convinced if we won Kargil: Lt Gen Kishan Pal

[Emperor Palpatine]

Kargil was not even a war. It was just a blunder

IF Kargil and 26/11 had never happened...India and Pakistan would be a lot closer..

I remember...before 26/11 i really thought all the hate was dying down

 

[ramu]

kargil was not a deisive victory for both parties..it was not even a "limited war".. n one that should not have taken at first place!
i once read a paper by an indian author who thought pakistan would have devastated itself if the war had continued..n now this statement...funny they cant even decide what had happened...

Losing 587 men was not acceptable to the general and he has presented a victory as not a victory in his book.

Let us look at Pak's objectives

1. To gain land on ground and tactical heights to oversee the main highway
2. To push Indian thrust back.

Results :

1. India regained all lost ground.
2. Indian regianed all the strategic heights.


Why don't you make up your mind for your self ?
About difference in perception of Kargil victory or no t a great victory or even a loss is based on perception of whom you talk to. Some people set very high standards for themselves. If you look at the objectives of Pakistan, it was white washed and rubbing salt to the wounds was international condemnation and Nawaz Sharif's infamous visit to Washington.

 

[ramu]

aint he traitor as well??
there was no decisive victory for any of the sides.....

Traitor because he demanded better results from his officers ? What is decisive victory? Did you expect India to occupy Islamabad for a decisive victory or for Pakistan to hoist the flag in red fort ?

The theater of war was restricted to Kashmir and India inflicted heavy damage to Pakistan and threw them back. Period.

 

[forcetrip]

The reason he said it was not a victory was because of the fact it was a white wash to begin with which turned out to be kind of a wierd walk in the park for India .. A walk in the park where you get stabbed and your ipod gets stolen ..

 

[mikkix]

Facts are facts....you invaded, we beat you...you lost...simple take it face saving or take it anything you like

NDTV is just trying to get some PR by making a Fancy headline..Infact that General himself says we regained all lost territories which explains we won the war and you lost..

Maybe read the article before engaging in useless pissing competition

nobody won kargil war....
it was a stalemate....
India lost many lives to regain....
pakistani lost some to capture but gain nothing...

 

[ramu]

The reason he said it was not a victory was because of the fact it was a white wash to begin with which turned out to be kind of a wierd walk in the park for India .. A walk in the park where you get stabbed and your ipod gets stolen ..

You are not making sense ... Tell me what has Pakistan gained from Kargil ? Do you how many men Pakistan lost in Kargil ?
What has India lost in Kargil? 587 men but regained every inch of territory.

 

[forcetrip]

What figues are you going to quote? The official figures or the ones given by a hesterical prime minister? How many days did it take you to loose 587 men??

 

[ramu]

What figues are you going to quote? The official figures or the ones given by a hesterical prime minister? How many days did it take you to loose 587 men??

1999 Kargil Conflict

reality check with neutral source

 

[ramu]

What figues are you going to quote? The official figures or the ones given by a hesterical prime minister? How many days did it take you to loose 587 men??

I don't want to embarrass you any more but read the article for yourself and tell me if your perception of Kargil changes. if it does not then consider this as my last constructive response.

DAWN - Ayaz Amir Corner; February, 25 2005

One highlight of the article written by Ayaz Amir from Dawn :

Pakistan suffered more casualties in the Kargil operation than in any of its previous wars with India. But as a reflection of the embarrassment this conflict arouses, the precise number of the dead and wounded remains a closely-guarded secret.

But Kargil was a real watershed in another sense. The actual operation as much as its aftermath finally put paid to the idea much favoured by military minds that Pakistan could take on India in an armed conflict or that there was a military solution to the Kashmir problem. Kargil proved to be the last frontier of Pakistani militarism in Kashmir.

 

[forcetrip]

Bravo on your nuetral source

"The first major ridgeline to fall was Tololing in the Drass sub-sector on June 13, 1999 which was captured after several weeks of bitter fighting. The attacks were preceded by sustained fire assaults from over one hundred Artillery guns, mortars and rocket launchers firing in concert. Thousands of shells, bombs and rocket warheads wrecked havoc and prevented the enemy from interfering with the assault. The 155 mm Bofors medium guns and 105 mm Indian field guns in the direct firing role destroyed all visible enemy sangars and forced the enemy to abandon several positions. The arcs of fire trailing behind the Bofors high explosive shells and the Grad rockets provided an awesome sight and instilled fear into the minds of Pakistani soldiers"

if you are serious that is a nuetral source by the way the event is written then we have nothing further to discuss.

Now to expalin to you what really happened by quoting the exact same article you presented.

"By 30 June 1999 Indian forces were prepared for a major high-altitude offensive against Pakistani posts along the border in the disputed Kashmir region. Over the previous six weeks India had moved five infantry divisions, five independent brigades and 44 battalions of paramilitary troops to Kashmir. The total Indian troop strength in the region had reached 730,000. The build-up included the deployment of around 60 frontline aircraft."

"It was initially estimated that there were about 500 to 1,000 intruders occupying the heights but later it is estimated that the actual strength of the intruders may have been about 5,000"

I do not agree with the kargil incident, but beating drums about your victory is irrelevant and false.

 

[Awesome]

The title is misleading... Closing this thread.

 

[ramu]

Anatomy of folly: not for robust souls

By Ayaz Amir

DAWN - Ayaz Amir Corner; February, 25 2005


extract:

Pakistan suffered more casualties in the Kargil operation than in any of its previous wars with India. But as a reflection of the embarrassment this conflict arouses, the precise number of the dead and wounded remains a closely-guarded secret.

So rest assured there won’t be any audit of Kargil on this side, the barest mention of it an embarrassment, a spectre at the feast, a reminder of something best forgotten.

Kargil may not have liberated Kashmir but, indirectly, one thing leading to another, it set the stage for October 12, ‘99, when the present set-up came to power. The masterminds of Kargil, in the forefront of the day’s events, may not have made much headway against the Indians but they made short work of Nawaz Sharif and his wobbly government. As the next day dawned, they were masters of the country.

But Kargil was a real watershed in another sense. The actual operation as much as its aftermath finally put paid to the idea much favoured by military minds that Pakistan could take on India in an armed conflict or that there was a military solution to the Kashmir problem. Kargil proved to be the last frontier of Pakistani militarism in Kashmir.

 

[Awesome]

already posted, already closed - title is still misleading

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

(indian source)

Eleven years after having led troops on the ground during the Kargil war, a retired army general has claimed India had actually lost the war in strategic terms as it failed to consolidate tactical gains.

Lt Gen (retd) Kishen Pal, who headed the Srinagar-based 15 Corps during the 1999 conflict, told television channel NDTV in an interview broadcast on Sunday that he had never been convinced that India had won.

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained back the territories we lost, (but) we lost 587 precious lives,” he said.

“I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically, it has not been consolidated militarily,” he added.

The Armed Forces Tribunal recently indicted Pal for showing bias against his junior Brigadier Devinder Singh and falsifying accounts during the Kargil war.

Asked if the army was under pressure then to give quick results, Pal admitted it was so. “It was a big embarrassment to everybody. The then vice chief (Lt Gen Chandra) Shekhar told me that there is lot of pressure we have to clear this very fast,” he said.

Not convinced India won Kargil war: Ex-IT gen- Hindustan Times

 

[genetic_nomad]

repost boyo...we have a thread on this already.