North East Asian Union? Exploring the potential of an NEA integration

[jhungary]

I think the nationalistic sentiments in CN and JP is a bit more intense than those found in the average joe. I mean, intense to the point that you start destroying people’s properties, smashing cars, beating up innocent people just because they use a certain brand from a certain country, and I don’t think Japanese nationalists are benign either.




I also truly think the Diaoyu dispute is a minor transient issue, but the fact that both China and Japan still cannot solve this minor transient issue says it all really.

In fact, I find it amusing that no NEAU advocates here were willing to change the title of the thread on that minor transient issue.

And this ain’t the fault of the US or any other third party.

I am going to put it out there first, I am a keen disbeliever of NEAU, for me, the chances of establishment of NEAU is as impractical as asking India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to drop their differences and form a South Asian Union, Or Saudi Arabia and Iran drop their political and/or religious different and form a Muslim union. But let's for this argument sake, let's say I think this is possible,

Nationalism can still be override if there are an existing threat that country are willing to drop their respective nationalistic trait and form a Union to oppose to this common threat. The theory is simple, if they were left to deal with the problem alone and choose nationalism, then their country will simply, ceased to exist. And hence goes the nationalism with.

What these people advocating is that the common threat, the biggest existing threat to the common North East Asia country is the western imperialist. And particularly, the US and its influence on North East Asia affair. But the thing is, these people fail to take 2 things into the account.

1.) US is too far away to be that threat, unlike EU, the threat formed by former Soviet Russia is quite close and quite real. It goes more than just an "Influence" of internal politic, but actually the physical survival of their country. The US, on the other hand, is more or less an annoyance that hinder the development of North East Asian country, base on their competitiveness. But did it went to the level of Soviet where it physically threaten the existence of North East Asian Country like China, Korea or Japan?

2.) US is part of Asia, even if US vacate their bases in Korea, Japan or Singapore, US will still have their own soil to fall back on. There are no way you would have US completely withdraw from Asia, unless there are way for the said NEAU union have a way to expel US from their own soil in the pacific. However, if they can achieve that, that is the time the so called "US threat" ceased to exist. And thus, losing the sole reason the union to exist in the first place.

The argument of NEAU is as flimsy as the argument for the need to create a South Asia Union, because I am pretty sure the day a NEAU formed, the South Asian and South East Asian will piss their pants, and that would be the reason why South/South East Asian country would need a union to stay alive from the NEAU......Then we can expect to see an India lead union with member like Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine and may even be US and EU too.

 

[nang2]

I am going to put it out there first, I am a keen disbeliever of NEAU, for me, the chances of establishment of NEAU is as impractical as asking India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to drop their differences and form a South Asian Union, Or Saudi Arabia and Iran drop their political and/or religious different and form a Muslim union. But let's for this argument sake, let's say I think this is possible,

Nationalism can still be override if there are an existing threat that country are willing to drop their respective nationalistic trait and form a Union to oppose to this common threat. The theory is simple, if they were left to deal with the problem alone and choose nationalism, then their country will simply, ceased to exist. And hence goes the nationalism with.

What these people advocating is that the common threat, the biggest existing threat to the common North East Asia country is the western imperialist. And particularly, the US and its influence on North East Asia affair. But the thing is, these people fail to take 2 things into the account.

1.) US is too far away to be that threat, unlike EU, the threat formed by former Soviet Russia is quite close and quite real. It goes more than just an "Influence" of internal politic, but actually the physical survival of their country. The US, on the other hand, is more or less an annoyance that hinder the development of North East Asian country, base on their competitiveness. But did it went to the level of Soviet where it physically threaten the existence of North East Asian Country like China, Korea or Japan?

2.) US is part of Asia, even if US vacate their bases in Korea, Japan or Singapore, US will still have their own soil to fall back on. There are no way you would have US completely withdraw from Asia, unless there are way for the said NEAU union have a way to expel US from their own soil in the pacific. However, if they can achieve that, that is the time the so called "US threat" ceased to exist. And thus, losing the sole reason the union to exist in the first place.

The argument of NEAU is as flimsy as the argument for the need to create a South Asia Union, because I am pretty sure the day a NEAU formed, the South Asian and South East Asian will piss their pants, and that would be the reason why South/South East Asian country would need a union to stay alive from the NEAU......Then we can expect to see an India lead union with member like Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine and may even be US and EU too.

I am with you on this subject.

 

[xenon54 out]

You cannot and must not underestimate takfiri ideology that has been exported abroad and funded by Saudi Arabia, my friend. Look at every major sectarian filled region in the Muslim World and you will have the finger print of Saudi Arabia preaching their radical Wahhabi ideology. Taliban, ISIL, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab et cetera, et cetera...

Yeah sure, i can see the spread in Europe too, my point is every person with Nationalistic feelings will see any alien ideology as a threat and fight it, i think you as a Japanese know exactly what i mean.

Just an exsample: we have a couple people from PDF Turkish community who joined or considered joining Army since pkk started to attack last year.

One of them being our forum Admiral-General Neptune. Read his post and you will understand what i mean.

We thank you!

 

[comci]

I am with you on this subject.

You guys wont be the first chinese nor the last who oppose this idea.

I am going to put it out there first, I am a keen disbeliever of NEAU, for me, the chances of establishment of NEAU is as impractical as asking India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to drop their differences and form a South Asian Union, Or Saudi Arabia and Iran drop their political and/or religious different and form a Muslim union. But let's for this argument sake, let's say I think this is possible,

Nationalism can still be override if there are an existing threat that country are willing to drop their respective nationalistic trait and form a Union to oppose to this common threat. The theory is simple, if they were left to deal with the problem alone and choose nationalism, then their country will simply, ceased to exist. And hence goes the nationalism with.

What these people advocating is that the common threat, the biggest existing threat to the common North East Asia country is the western imperialist. And particularly, the US and its influence on North East Asia affair. But the thing is, these people fail to take 2 things into the account.

1.) US is too far away to be that threat, unlike EU, the threat formed by former Soviet Russia is quite close and quite real. It goes more than just an "Influence" of internal politic, but actually the physical survival of their country. The US, on the other hand, is more or less an annoyance that hinder the development of North East Asian country, base on their competitiveness. But did it went to the level of Soviet where it physically threaten the existence of North East Asian Country like China, Korea or Japan?

2.) US is part of Asia, even if US vacate their bases in Korea, Japan or Singapore, US will still have their own soil to fall back on. There are no way you would have US completely withdraw from Asia, unless there are way for the said NEAU union have a way to expel US from their own soil in the pacific. However, if they can achieve that, that is the time the so called "US threat" ceased to exist. And thus, losing the sole reason the union to exist in the first place.

The argument of NEAU is as flimsy as the argument for the need to create a South Asia Union, because I am pretty sure the day a NEAU formed, the South Asian and South East Asian will piss their pants, and that would be the reason why South/South East Asian country would need a union to stay alive from the NEAU......Then we can expect to see an India lead union with member like Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine and may even be US and EU too.

There is already the foundation of the South Asian Union, called SAARC.


South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of South East Asian Union, called ASEAN


Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of North American Union, called NAU.


North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of european countries, called the EU


What is your point? Other region/countries are allowed to form their own organisation, but the orientals, GOD forbid are not because this organization will be too powerful?

If i didnt known better myself, i would have thought you are the Dalai Lama himself. It is so nice of you to think of your neighbours feeling and ignore your own need. So yeah, lets not create institution like the Greater East Asia, it might piss the pants off of other countries. Lets forget the huge economic, politic and militairy power it can accumulated. Lets pretend China is strong enough by herself to overcome many threats to come and let us be happy pretending all nations will be nice toward each other and there will never ever be conflict.


In case you dont know this, even if China do nothing, USA and other western powers will posed a threat for the long term and they will keep coming and coming until they knocked you out. The first step to do is to prevent the economic hegemony of China. For example take the TPP case. The first TPP negotiations started in 2005 to block the rising China's economic power. Soon thereafter,China aware of this economic threat started her own version of TPP,called RCEP. RCEP negotiations started in 2012. You see the date? USA throw the first punch to limit China's influence, then China responded by creating same kind of institution. Why not throw the first punch instead of playing defence?

After handling the economy, the second step would be Asian spring (brought to you by CIA) by destabilizing China sovereignity (Tibet, Taiwan, Xingjang). Everything in order to delay or make rising China difficult. Do you think if USA leave Asia, they will not interfere with asian affairs? How about you ask Russia, how despite the collapsed of the Sovjet Union, USA still make Russia difficult?

 

[Dungeness]

You guys wont be the first chinese nor the last who oppose this idea.




There is already the foundation of the South Asian Union, called SAARC.


South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of South East Asian Union, called ASEAN


Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of North American Union, called NAU.


North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of european countries, called the EU


What is your point? Other region/countries are allowed to form their own organisation, but the orientals, GOD forbid are not because this organization will be too powerful?

If i didnt known better myself, i would have thought you are the Dalai Lama himself. It is so nice of you to think of your neighbours feeling and ignore your own need. So yeah, lets not create institution like the Greater East Asia, it might piss the pants off of other countries. Lets forget the huge economic, politic and militairy power it can accumulated. Lets pretend China is strong enough by herself to overcome many threats to come and let us be happy pretending all nations will be nice toward each other and there will never ever be conflict.


In case you dont know this, even if China do nothing, USA and other western powers will posed a threat for the long term and they will keep coming and coming until they knocked you out. The first step to do is to prevent the economic hegemony of China. For example take the TPP case. The first TPP negotiations started in 2005 to block the rising China's economic power. Soon thereafter,China aware of this economic threat started her own version of TPP,called RCEP. RCEP negotiations started in 2012. You see the date? USA throw the first punch to limit China's influence, then China responded by creating same kind of institution. Why not throw the first punch instead of playing defence?

After handling the economy, the second step would be Asian spring (brought to you by CIA) by destabilizing China sovereignity (Tibet, Taiwan, Xingjang). Everything in order to delay or make rising China difficult. Do you think if USA leave Asia, they will not interfere with asian affairs? How about you ask Russia, how despite the collapsed of the Sovjet Union, USA still make Russia difficult?

China's rise is against USA's "National Interest", so US will do anything and everything to prevent it from happening, including cultivating a "5th column" inside of China. The great game of the century has just began, and let's see how Xi's CPC hold up to the challenge.

 

[hirobo2]

There is a common saying in the international community, where "Yellow people" are regarded as grains of sand on a beach --- they can't seem to stick together. And this is exactly what Uncle Sam gleefully wants. As long as the "Yellows" remain divided, the US will rule over them. Just look to the SCS issue for proof. Anyone opposed to the NEAU, just ask yourself is this what you want? Do you really want American aggression to go unchecked in your own backyard, so long as you remain divided with petty differences? Sure, the Japanese did atrocious things to you, but it was only to vent their anger. US, on the other hand, just does whatever the f*** they want b/c they think they rule the world...

Anyone who thinks Americans are holier than the Japanese. Let us be reminded what they did to Afghanistan after 9/11. They just unleashed a slew of missiles at it w/o even giving prior warning to the civilians to start the war.

 

[jhungary]

There is already the foundation of the South Asian Union, called SAARC.


South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of South East Asian Union, called ASEAN


Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of North American Union, called NAU.


North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is already the foundation of european countries, called the EU


What is your point? Other region/countries are allowed to form their own organisation, but the orientals, GOD forbid are not because this organization will be too powerful?

If i didnt known better myself, i would have thought you are the Dalai Lama himself. It is so nice of you to think of your neighbours feeling and ignore your own need. So yeah, lets not create institution like the Greater East Asia, it might piss the pants off of other countries. Lets forget the huge economic, politic and militairy power it can accumulated. Lets pretend China is strong enough by herself to overcome many threats to come and let us be happy pretending all nations will be nice toward each other and there will never ever be conflict.


In case you dont know this, even if China do nothing, USA and other western powers will posed a threat for the long term and they will keep coming and coming until they knocked you out. The first step to do is to prevent the economic hegemony of China. For example take the TPP case. The first TPP negotiations started in 2005 to block the rising China's economic power. Soon thereafter,China aware of this economic threat started her own version of TPP,called RCEP. RCEP negotiations started in 2012. You see the date? USA throw the first punch to limit China's influence, then China responded by creating same kind of institution. Why not throw the first punch instead of playing defence?

After handling the economy, the second step would be Asian spring (brought to you by CIA) by destabilizing China sovereignity (Tibet, Taiwan, Xingjang). Everything in order to delay or make rising China difficult. Do you think if USA leave Asia, they will not interfere with asian affairs? How about you ask Russia, how despite the collapsed of the Sovjet Union, USA still make Russia difficult?

1.) South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation is NOT the same as South Asian Union.

2.) Association of South East Asian Nation is NOT the same as South East Asian Union

3.) There are actually no such thing as North American Union, as they are a Theoretical Entity.

If you think or say that SAARC and ASEAN is a sort of extend as a Union ala European Union, then you ALREADY have a North East Asian Union, that's what you called a SCO.

Saying that is the same as saying there is an entity called Western Union, are they the union of all Western Nations??

Western Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rest of your post is just garbage, as you have zero knowledge on Geopolitics. I never said there should never be a NEAU because it will piss the pants of other South/South Eastern Nation, I said if such Union is form, it will not be used to challenge the US or the West, as you seems to forget there are 2 big country is next to your China, India and Russia. And they will see your NEAU more of a threat than the US, and you know what they will do?

Form a bloody South/Central Union themselves. Or better yet, forming NEAU would probably push Russia to join NATO and EU. Using your own argument on NEAU, both Russian and NATO are white dominated country, both are of Christianity, if China and Japan or Korea and Japan can set aside their different and join into a Union, why not Russian and NATO?

LOL, don't be such a 8 chi.

 

[soundwave1987]

I see people arguing about Chinese/Japanese nationalist sentiments as an obstacle here. True, both Chinese and Japanese people (and Korean people also) are quite nationlists in general, and it seems like the reason of tensions between East Asian countries(the real reason is China and Japan are in different "camps" , where the west--especially US lurks). That is what the westerner may think, a typical outsider thought( like I said, I don't think they really understand us). I think on the contrary, it is exactly the same nationalism may put the union together. What is nationalism? It is simply a resonace or proud feeling to a bunch of people who share great similarity with me, it is actually the simple animal instinct of preserving the herd or the clan. A fun fact is, the similarity between China/Japan/Korea is just too much, which is exact the same root of their nationalism. If you look deeper, you can understand what the nationalism of China/Japan really is.
China and Japan (and Korea) are both proud of the uniqueness and greatness of their history and ideology, the nationalists in each country claimed they charished their tradional way the most (and I believe them), but the tradional ways of China and Japan and Korea are too much similar, a Chinese nationalist can not really against Japanese ideology that much because Japan just inherited too much from China that most of their concepts are exactly the same with ours, and the same logic applys to a Japanese nationalist too. So the most odd thing appeared--Chinese nationalists accuse Japan to be ungrateful and betral and see Japan as a "mutant China", whereas Japanese nationalists accuse China to be crrupted and barbaric and claim Japan as the “authentic China”--well, you can't find such an amusing "nationalism" toward eachother elsewhere in the world--they aren't just proud of thensleves, they kind of be proud of each other too.
In fact, if you see through the history of China and Japan, you may understand my point better. Not only they both applied Confucian ideology and social-political system, but also they share literally a whole culture system which is the fundamental element of both countries‘ nationalism. Japanese scholars could read and write Chinese classic without obstacle, famous Japanese poets could create Chinese poem( although I think they sucked at it compare to Chinese poets because they didn't pronounce the same way like the Chinese did, but still, they were better than most Chinese or at least on peer with a well-educated Chinese scholar). On the other hand, most of ( if not all) the modern words (from the west) in Chinese language were actually translated by Japanese enlightenment thinkers( who were Confucian masters and interpreted western concepts into Chinese classics). It was Japanese enlightenment thinkers who firstly put forward the idea of "保种保教"( to preserve our race and our belief ), they found out the correct direction( to unify or integrate East Asia, aka Confucian sphere) to resist the West but the followers went to a wrong way( by conquering and invasion), as for now we are still trying to work out the possibility of their thoughts(the NEAU thing).
The reason Chinese and Japanese pubilc opinions are so against eachother seems to be complicated, but in general it is simple enough. On the upper level, you can see Chinese people hate Imperial Japan for the great casualty and damage in WW II, but deep down it is the feeling of betrayed and embarrassed hurt the most, like you are backstabbed by a family or a brother. From the Japanese side, you can see Japanese people hate China for growing stronger and "aggressive" and worried about China's "revenge", but deep down it is disappointment which haunted Japan for almost 200 years, they got disppointed and grew anger by a continuous weak and stooping China after expecting China to get stronger fast and fought the west along with them, so they felt superior and looked down upon the rest of East Asia. Today Japanese people still think modern China is not "the same China as it should be", and they dislike "modern" China. Even with political and territorial disputes, there were good times for China & Japan, you can tell it from Japanese novels and TV shows in the 80s. I once read a popular Japanese novel named “Strike of the Minsk”(明斯克號出擊), in which I saw something like this: ( after the Soviet invation to China, Japanese volunteers made public speech)" China is the mother of our 2000 years civilization, and it is recreancy for a son to just stand by and watch when some guy killing his mother". So yep, political and territorial issue may exist, but not necessarily the hostility. In fact you can get a hint from this thread, as now tensions continue in East Asia, there are still so many Chinese and Japanese vouching for the idea of a union, the attitude itself has proven something.Therefore I can say, the nationalist sentiment between China and Japan (And Korea) is a complex mixed love and hatred together, it's pretty weird, but once China get stronger and better and Japan( Korea) get more independent, people may cherish the similarity more than the disagreement, because they both get confident enough to see the true names and the traditions of their own, which means they can finally explict the common thoughts and get things restored as it should be.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

There is a common saying in the international community, where "Yellow people" are regarded as grains of sand on a beach --- they can't seem to stick together. And this is exactly what Uncle Sam gleefully wants. As long as the "Yellows" remain divided, the US will rule over them. Just look to the SCS issue for proof. Anyone opposed to the NEAU, just ask yourself is this what you want? Do you really want American aggression to go unchecked in your own backyard, so long as you remain divided with petty differences? Sure, the Japanese did atrocious things to you, but it was only to vent their anger. US, on the other hand, just does whatever the f*** they want b/c they think they rule the world...

Anyone who thinks Americans are holier than the Japanese. Let us be reminded what they did to Afghanistan after 9/11. They just unleashed a slew of missiles at it w/o even giving prior warning to the civilians to start the war.

Totally agree, that's why I totally support NEAU, only China-Japan combine can contain US in Asia...once both agree and reach the consensus, Korea will have no choice but to follow or will be marginalized in Nord Asia. I know it will be very hard to achieve NEAU but if you don't even believe...then NEAU will just be hopeless...for my Chinese brothers, are you guys willing to let the pass hatred to tormented us for eternity or try to build a brighter Asia future together with Japan?

 

[jhungary]

Anyone who thinks Americans are holier than the Japanese. Let us be reminded what they did to Afghanistan after 9/11. They just unleashed a slew of missiles at it w/o even giving prior warning to the civilians to start the war.

I don't know about is America Holier thy thou, as I claim American are no saint themselves.. But you are dead wrong about the US Bombing Afghanistan and starting a war without warning

US gave Taliban Government warning and ultimatum and threaten war to handing OBL to US authority immediately after the 9/11 attack, and the Taliban ignore the ultimatum. The first phase of Enduring Freedom (Oct-Nov 2001) does not consist of any bombing, but instead insertion of SF team (Delta, A-Team, SEALs, SAD, SAS) and Liaise with Northern Alliance to support and push back the Afghan Government.

The Desert Storm style Air Campaign (Desert Shield) was suggested by then General Tommy Franks, but was rejected by Rumsfield. due to the deployment time, it will take 6 months (Roughly the time frame it needed to form ISAF) to deploy all available air asset in the Area, by then the Afghan would have already went to the ground like they did to the Russian back in 1980s.

There were no bombing campaign in the beginning of Operation Enduring Freedom, air element does not arrive in Afghanistan until at least ISAF is formed in December 20, 3 and a half months after the first US Boots on the ground.

 

[hirobo2]

I don't know about is America Holier thy thou, as I claim American are no saint themselves.. But you are dead wrong about the US Bombing Afghanistan and starting a war without warning

US gave Taliban Government warning and ultimatum and threaten war to handing OBL to US authority immediately after the 9/11 attack, and the Taliban ignore the ultimatum. The first phase of Enduring Freedom (Oct-Nov 2001) does not consist of any bombing, but instead insertion of SF team (Delta, A-Team, SEALs, SAD, SAS) and Liaise with Northern Alliance to support and push back the Afghan Government.

The Desert Storm style Air Campaign (Desert Shield) was suggested by then General Tommy Franks, but was rejected by Rumsfield. due to the deployment time, it will take 6 months (Roughly the time frame it needed to form ISAF) to deploy all available air asset in the Area, by then the Afghan would have already went to the ground like they did to the Russian back in 1980s.

There were no bombing campaign in the beginning of Operation Enduring Freedom, air element does not arrive in Afghanistan until at least ISAF is formed in December 20, 3 and a half months after the first US Boots on the ground.

I'm sorry, no. At least Japan didn't pretend to be the good guys during the invasion. Can't remember the specific details, but US said they would start bombing around 11PM. They deployed the missiles at 6PM. Some "John Wayne" nation with high morals, yeah?

 

[jhungary]

I'm sorry, no. At least Japan didn't pretend to be the good guys during the invasion. Can't remember the specific details, but US said they would start bombing around 11PM. They deployed the missiles at 6PM. Some "John Wayne" nation with high morals, yeah?

What the heck are you talking about??

As I said, I never claim or said America is on a moral High Horse, I simply saying your "Bombing" and "Without Warning" is WRONG. The US gave 28 days (September 12 to October 9) for the Taliban Government to hand over OBL. Not what you said start bombing at 11pm and deployed missile at 6.....

You can call or think whatever you want about the US, but fact is facts, you cannot twist facts to get into your advantage. The version of history does not goes down as you claim, it does not matter if US were immoral or saint, YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, end of story.

 

[hirobo2]

What the heck are you talking about??

As I said, I never claim or said America is on a moral High Horse, I simply saying your "Bombing" and "Without Warning" is WRONG.

You can call or think whatever you want about the US, but fact is facts, you cannot twist facts to get into your advantage. The version of history does not goes down as you claim, it does not matter if US were immoral or saint, YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, end of story.

Enduring freedom my rear end. CIA planted bombs inside the twin towers. Flew RC airplanes into them. Set off the bombs floor by floor to coordinate the collapse. Claimed Al Qaeda did it as pretext to attack Afghan/Iraq, for whatever reasons we don't know...

All the wars ever started by the US were their own doing. They even blew up their own civilian cruise ship way back as pretext to start some meaningless war in Europe. US is the most evil corrupt empire in the world.

I pray that they don't play the same gimmick in the SCS, blow up their own warship and claim China did it leading to inevitable war.

I suppose this will be their trump card to get China to back off from the SCS after all else fails. One day, you'll hear about a US warship struck by a "Chinese" missile during one of those Freeom of navigation patrols. Of course the ship will be on autopilot and its crew already evacuated. It will be the perfect pretext to drop bombs on the islands.

 

[comci]

Totally agree, that's why I totally support NEAU, only China-Japan combine can contain US in Asia...once both agree and reach the consensus, Korea will have no choice but to follow or will be marginalized in Nord Asia. I know it will be very hard to achieve NEAU but if you don't even believe...then NEAU will just be hopeless...for my Chinese brothers, are you guys willing to let the pass hatred to tormented us for eternity or try to build a brighter Asia future together with Japan?

I think you should focus more on the next generation like kids,students etc. Current generation ,the 30+ are hopeless.

 

[jhungary]

Enduring freedom my rear end. CIA planted bombs inside the twin towers. Flew RC airplanes into them. Set off the bombs floor by floor to coordinate the collapse. Claimed Al Qaeda did it as pretext to attack Afghan/Iraq, for whatever reasons we don't know...

All the wars ever started by the US were their own doing. They even blew up their own civilian cruise ship way back as pretext to start some meaningless war in Europe. US is the most evil corrupt empire in the world.

I pray that they don't play the same gimmick in the SCS, blow up their own warship and claim China did it leading to inevitable war...

Yeah, yeah , yeah, 9/11 never happened

As much as the 918 incident the Japanese did right? Plant your own bomb in your own railway and pretend the Chinese did it. LOL How moral is your Japanese Empire??

Mukden Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia