Nobody Wants to talk of peace solutions yet!!!

[yarmook]

I have to agree on this statement. But I am looking for ways to work around the current dynamics, where with willingness on both sides, this problem can be circumvented to acheive peace long term.

You can not find a solution easily by working around the current dynamics for that you would need to look for considering global dynamics dealing with power game.

 

[yarmook]

That is already part of my plan. In fact, I have gone a step further in remarking that if there is intelligence regarding terror attacks on the other country it should be shared prior to the attacks taking place.

Well said good point But the problem with Indians is that they even do not share the information among their own law enforcing agencies and the net result can been seen by everyone i.e more attacks, more failures by India to stop them, more lies and more blame game to cover own stupidity.

 

[peacenik79]

Well if u really want to make sense of things, lets than drill down to the facts instead of dwindling on the consmetic points. In the last 5 years and so, if India instead of wasting our and theirs time pointlessly in the name of Confindence building measure, had utilized in resolving the actual conflict between us, that is the Kashmir Issue we wouldnt have been in the situation where we are right now. Resolving the Kashmir Issue will take out the motivation and the rational behind organisations like LeT; taking out the motivation factor is the best way of disarming the enemy. What has these confidence building measures (CBM) mean when an incident like Mumbai and v unfortunate one can bring us back to square one. CBM are nothing but to gain time and a cover up in front of national community so that actual issue remains unattended.

I agree, CBM is always under threat from terrorists. Problem is India is unlikely to ummmm... resolve the Kashmir issue to the satisfaction of the terrorists.

The LET is not going to force India to the negotiating table and make concessions to Pakistan.

The only way there can be negotiations is when the peace process is not roll back-able by these terrorist groups. In any case these terrorists are the main threats to peace.

 

[peacenik79]

Well said good point But the problem with Indians is that they even do not share the information among their own law enforcing agencies and the net result can been seen by everyone i.e more attacks, more failures by India to stop them, more lies and more blame game to cover own stupidity.

Well its not just the Indians but Pakistani's are also part of this stupidity. My plan clearly mentions that serious steps need to be taken to improve internal security in both countries which is obviously inadequate.

Maybe some money from fighter plane purchases can be redirected towards this area which is more important.

 

[Shoaib_Sham]

I agree, CBM is always under threat from terrorists. Problem is India is unlikely to ummmm... resolve the Kashmir issue to the satisfaction of the terrorists.

The LET is not going to force India to the negotiating table and make concessions to Pakistan.

The only way there can be negotiations is when the peace process is not roll back-able by these terrorist groups. In any case these terrorists are the main threats to peace.

Huh!!!
My friend again you have different lens at looking into things. You are looking at things from different perspective at least I can sense it from ur reply. India needs to solve the Kashmir Issue not according to wishes of LeT, but what was promised to people of Kashmir and according to aspirations of People of Kashmir. What if LeT eventual aim on Kashmir is in-synch with United Nation resolution,wishes of People of Kashmir and is justified by any rule of Law appplicable . When every one was allowed to make his/her decision( directly or indirectly) about his future during partition of sub-continent why werent Kashmiris given this right. Lets first give them what India has kept them deprived for last 60 years although India promised Kashmiris infront of the world of right of self-determination. Isnt keeping Kashmiris deprived of their basic right a biggest crime by GoI? this is a bigger crime than any other crime ever committed by these so called Jihadi organisations.

 

[yarmook]

I agree, CBM is always under threat from terrorists. Problem is India is unlikely to ummmm... resolve the Kashmir issue to the satisfaction of the terrorists.

The LET is not going to force India to the negotiating table and make concessions to Pakistan.

The only way there can be negotiations is when the peace process is not roll back-able by these terrorist groups. In any case these terrorists are the main threats to peace.

Sorry dude your bias post is not different from Indian bias version.

Kashmiris are not terrorists.
LET is reduced to ashes and does not carry any weight anymore.

There is no question of concessions from any side i.e. India and Pakistan but the solution which is acceptable to Kashmiris.

Kashmiri political parties are not terrorists.

In short you are just trying to be a neutral person while advocating Indian hypocrisy.

 

[peacenik79]

Huh!!!
My friend again you have different lens at looking into things. You are looking at things from different perspective at least I can sense it from ur reply. India needs to solve the Kashmir Issue not according to wishes of LeT, but what was promised to people of Kashmir and according to aspirations of People of Kashmir. What if LeT eventual aim on Kashmir is in-synch with United Nation resolution,wishes of People of Kashmir and is justified by any rule of Law appplicable . When every one was allowed to make his/her decision( directly or indirectly) about his future during partition of sub-continent why werent Kashmiris given this right. Lets first give them what India has kept them deprived for last 60 years although India promised Kashmiris infront of the world of right of self-determination. Isnt keeping Kashmiris deprived of their basic right a biggest crime by GoI? this is a bigger crime than any other crime ever committed by these so called Jihadi organisations.

Look, just like you have a view on Kashmir issue, the Indians have their own view on it as well and they are determined about it as the past 60+ years have shown. They are not going to change their mind either due to Pakistan's pleading or the Jihadi's actions. If it were that simple the issue would have been solved long ago. Same with the Palestinian issue etc.

Do you have any bright idea to make the Indians change their mind? I'm guessing no. War has been tried a few times and has failed. The Jihadi's have failed. And in the current international climate nobody wants to antagonise India by supporting Pakistan's case wholeheartedly, so international pressure will also not work.

The issue can only be resolved through REAL negotiations where give and take will be involved. And for give and take to happen, atmosphere of peace and trust needs to be there. Otherwise it will just become roll-backable and we are back to square one as it is now.

Also if you are holding out hope that the issue will be solved entirely to Pakistan's satisfaction, that is not likely to happen. Nor is the issue going to be solved entirely to India's satisfaction.

 

[peacenik79]

Sorry dude your bias post is not different from Indian bias version.

Kashmiris are not terrorists.
LET is reduced to ashes and does not carry any weight anymore.

There is no question of concessions from any side i.e. India and Pakistan but the solution which is acceptable to Kashmiris.

Kashmiri political parties are not terrorists.

In short you are just trying to be a neutral person while advocating Indian hypocrisy.

Dude, Im trying to look at solutions and if solutions are the idea, you have to look at common meeting ground however difficult it might seem.

If I parrott India's version or your version, it is not gonna be acceptable to the other side. Compromises are essential on both sides.

 

[yarmook]

Dude, Im trying to look at solutions and if solutions are the idea, you have to look at common meeting ground however difficult it might seem.

If I parrott India's version or your version, it is not gonna be acceptable to the other side. Compromises are essential on both sides.

Dude no one stops you from finding solution but the problem with your statments is parrioting of Indian view.

I do not ask you to parriot ours as well but just be unbias and also have some courage to speak out about sufferings of Kashmiris as well.

 

[Shoaib_Sham]

Look, just like you have a view on Kashmir issue, the Indians have their own view on it as well and they are determined about it as the past 60+ years have shown. They are not going to change their mind either due to Pakistan's pleading or the Jihadi's actions. If it were that simple the issue would have been solved long ago. Same with the Palestinian issue etc.

Do you have any bright idea to make the Indians change their mind? I'm guessing no. War has been tried a few times and has failed. The Jihadi's have failed. And in the current international climate nobody wants to antagonise India by supporting Pakistan's case wholeheartedly, so international pressure will also not work.

The issue can only be resolved through REAL negotiations where give and take will be involved. And for give and take to happen, atmosphere of peace and trust needs to be there. Otherwise it will just become roll-backable and we are back to square one as it is now.

Also if you are holding out hope that the issue will be solved entirely to Pakistan's satisfaction, that is not likely to happen. Nor is the issue going to be solved entirely to India's satisfaction.

Again, its not Pakistans point of view. Its about the Kashmiris. This is what was promised to them. This is what the laws are saying. When rule of law is ignored and the rights of the weaker are usurped , then weaker side resorts to react in weak ways and forms which today we consider it as terrorism.
India isn't ready to give a thing on Kashmir Issue. Pakistan in Musharraf era shifted from our old stated policy , for which he got some real bashing here at home. But Indians didnt even moved an inch. Indians are not ready to give. They have their own ideology and theory about Kashmir which defies every rule of law and every resolution. They are boosting their egos as a Nation on the ruins of Kashmiris.

REAL negotiations were avoided by using cover ups as CBMs and etc.
Changing Indians mind will require self-realization of grave consequences of holding Kashmiris as hostage, u dont need bright Ideas for obvious

 

[peacenik79]

Again, its not Pakistans point of view. Its about the Kashmiris. This is what was promised to them. This is what the laws are saying. When rule of law is ignored and the rights of the weaker are usurped , then weaker side resorts to react in weak ways and forms which today we consider it as terrorism.
India isn't ready to give a thing on Kashmir Issue. Pakistan in Musharraf era shifted from our old stated policy , for which he got some real bashing here at home. But Indians didnt even moved an inch. Indians are not ready to give. They have their own ideology and theory about Kashmir which defies every rule of law and every resolution. They are boosting their egos as a Nation on the ruins of Kashmiris.

REAL negotiations were avoided by using cover ups as CBMs and etc.
Changing Indians mind will require self-realization of grave consequences of holding Kashmiris as hostage, u dont need bright Ideas for obvious

What would you want India to give, " Say something that will be acceptable to India" not this plebiscite nonsense or anything involvng change of borders which we all know is never going to happen and more importantly what do you propose Pakistan can give in return?

 

[AliFarooq]

O its control, it just the indians can't control what happens in their country.

 

[el nino]

Pakistan will not have peace with india until

1. KASHMIR become part of Pakistan whole....so india gives it up.

2. India reduces its military & ECONOMIC growth in particular which is making some pakistanis nervous about indian dominance hegonism in this part of the world.

3. The world particularly USA treats Pakistan WITH equal status to india.

iE NUKE DEALS & TOT with weapons deals and financial investment in the respective countries etc.

IS ALL OF THIS LIKELY TO HAPPEN ??????

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Considering the Indians didn't attack us as planned today they have adopted the "dosti" approach, which is basically a temporary cease fire until the next false flag operation. I think they feel let down by their government, but in the meantime are going to put as much disinformation down our throats as possible. Trying to skew the Kashmir issue into one about terrorism is disgusting and sick. Pakistan will never bomb Kashmiri freedom fighters to satisfy India's blood lust, not in a million fu***n years.

 

[AliFarooq]

After the recent events, believe me pakistan will not, handover any one, orban any group asked by the indians.