No proof against Hafiz Saeed, can't put him in jail to please anyone: Pak

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Still does not change that nothing can move forward between india and pakistan till his issue is settled.

That is fair (from the Indian side) - India is a sovereign State that identifies and pursues her national interests as she sees fit. Hopefully the two sides will eventually find a way around the issue, but that will require the Indian government and media to start addressing the issue pragmatically, and explain to the Indian public the fact that despite their strong conviction of HS's involvement in the Mumbai attacks, there just isn't enough evidence to arrest and convict him for said crime.

Narendra Modi should have no trouble explaining that - he is an embodiment of the same situation - there are many in Pakistan and India who are convinced he played a direct role in the Gujarat massacres of Muslims, yet he has not been convicted by a court for said crime because there is no credible evidence to support the charges.

Heck, he can even thrown in the line that "at least Pakistanis did not elect Hafiz Saeed Prime Minister like Indians did with me" ..

But isn't a UN resolution enough to make him a terrorist. After all a resolution from the UN is treated as Gospel by Pakistanis wrt Kashmir being a disputed area

The UN resolution against HS establishes restrictions on his finances and movement, which Pakistan says it complies with. Pakistan may disagree with the UN designations, but it is complying with them to the best of her abilities just as it would expect India to comply with the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir.

I don't see any disconnect here ...

Which court has convicted Bugti as a terrorist ?

Why does that matter? If the US and Afghans believed he was innocent, why deny his presence in Afghanistan all these years? They could have taken the same position Pakistan did that he claimed to have no involvement in terrorism, just as HS has done publicly.

It is the Afghans and the US who were outright denying that Bugti was even present in Afghanistan during all the years Musharraf was in power, and then leaked US diplomatic cables destroyed that facade as they implicated their own high ranking officials.

 

[ito]

Can't hang him on the basis of speculation alone - the man has repeatedly and categorically denied his role in the Mumbai attacks, and the fact that the Pakistani High Commissioner in Indian can point out to the INDIAN media while in INDIA, that there is no evidence to convict HS sends a pretty clear message that despite GoI and Indian media propaganda about "dossiers of evidence against HS", there is very little in the way of any credible evidence to implicate or convict him.

every criminal deny wrong doing. HS spill poison at india at every instance he is given a chance. he is poison. india did provide evidence of HS involvement to pak. it is pak that is obstinate.

as i told before unless mumbai is resolved, i don't see anything good happening between india and pak. it is pak that has hold indo-pak relation hostage for a criminal.

 

[karan.1970]

That is fair (from the Indian side) - India is a sovereign State that identifies and pursues her national interests as she sees fit. Hopefully the two sides will eventually find a way around the issue, but that will require the Indian government and media to start addressing the issue pragmatically, and explain to the Indian public the fact that despite their strong conviction of HS's involvement in the Mumbai attacks, there just isn't enough evidence to arrest and convict him for said crime.

Narendra Modi should have no trouble explaining that - he is an embodiment of the same situation - there are many in Pakistan and India who are convinced he played a direct role in the Gujarat massacres of Muslims, yet he has not been convicted by a court for said crime because there is no credible evidence to support the charges.

Heck, he can even thrown in the line that "at least Pakistanis did not elect Hafiz Saeed Prime Minister like Indians did with me" ..

Well, its an oft repeated logic by Pakistanis but a little flawed. Firstly, the unproven blame that is put on Modi is to have not acted fast and strong enough to prevent the Gujrat carnage. On the other hand, Hafiz Saeed is a UN designated terrorist. Multiple countries like USA, UK (not sure though) have also declared him a terrorist.

About Many believing that he had any direct linkage with the carnage, well, If just a bunch of fanboys getting together and calling someone a terrorist was enough to get someone internationally designated a terrorist, then Jinnah would have got that nomenclature much before Modi (1.2 billion Indians against 200 million Pakistanis )

but anyway, this is simply a stupid red herring and most Pakistanis know this but still use it when they want to defend one of many terrorists in Pakistan who the Pakistani state is sympathetic towards.

The UN resolution against HS establishes restrictions on his finances and movement, which Pakistan says it complies with. Pakistan may disagree with the UN designations, but it is complying with them to the best of her abilities just as it would expect India to comply with the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir.

I don't see any disconnect here ...

You are wrong. Hafiz Saeed has been freely transacting financially in Pakistan using the accounts of his terrorist designated organization JuD for many years now. He not only collects donations for JuD thru Pakistani banking system, but also uses those donations at will. And given his public appearances all over Pakistan, I dont think there is any restriction in his travel what so ever.

and the "Best of her abilities" is as lame an excuse as they come.

Why does that matter? If the US and Afghans believed he was innocent, why deny his presence in Afghanistan all these years? They could have taken the same position Pakistan did that he claimed to have no involvement in terrorism, just as HS has done publicly.

Since he is not a convicted criminal in Pakistan, neither US nor Afghans owe any explanation for denying his presence to Pakistan.

And it does matter that a UN designated terrorist is not a terrorist for you because he is not yet convicted by Pakistani courts, and yet a Pakistani civilian who also is not been convicted by the same courts and is also not labeled as a terrorist by any international body is a terrorist to you because he has a different view of Balochistan situation than you. Smells of hypocrisy if you ask me.

It is the Afghans and the US who were outright denying that Bugti was even present in Afghanistan during all the years Musharraf was in power, and then leaked US diplomatic cables destroyed that facade as they implicated their own high ranking officials.

Implicated of what? lying to Pakistan about presence of an innocent Pakistani civilian in their country. Didnt know that was a crime.

 

[OrionHunter]

This is absurd logic. OBL admitted he was mastermind behind 9/11. What proofs do you have against Hafiz saeed? Remember 28/11 preparators are already being prosecuted in Pakistani courts. Lakhvi and Co.

Above ignorant poster blindly posted 10 million bounty for those who provide proof against Hafiz saeed

You must know that Saeed will never never be incarcerated for his shenanigans and for the 26/11 attacks. Why? Because:

> He is the proxy spokesman of the PA/ISI.
> He helps the above to provide the foot soldiers for the proxy war in Kashmir.
> Saeed and his yahoos, the LeT, are the Pak Army's 'strategic assets' (Gen Kayani himself had mentioned this) to be used as the first line of defence against any Indian attack on Pakistan as well as help keep Kashmir on the boil.
> He is being guarded 24x7 by the state machinery. I wonder why?
> Fact: No judge in Pakistan will have the guts to pronounce him guilty for fear of being killed!

So, General Hafiz Saeed is, and will always be a free man, never mind if he has been declared a terrorist and his JuD declared a terrorist organization too. Who cares, what?

 

[ashok321]

He hasn't been convicted for terrorism in any non-Indian court. Even the US has only been able to announce a reward for "information leading to his conviction", so how on earth can you claim that HS is an "international terrorist"?

In increased pressure on Pakistan to act, the US has put Hafiz Saeed on its list of most-wanted terrorists and has announced a reward of $10 million for the capture or information leading to the capture of the man

India welcomes $10 million bounty on Hafiz Saeed - NDTV

Mus I say more?

 

[Muhammad Hamid Shah]

can anyone share real history of hafiz saeed involvement in these activities.... or they are simply targetting a person as a reffeeence point for incursion into Pakistan as was designed inAfghanistan

 

[Bang Galore]

No proof against Hafiz Saeed, can't put him in jail to please anyone: Pak

...and the same people expect India to vacate Siachen & give up parts of Kashmir to please them.....

 

[mehboobkz]

With the amount of attention Indians give the man, it would appear that he is idolized far more in India than Pakistan


1. The bounty is for information leading to his arrest and/or conviction, and not a "bounty on his head" - in other words, the US has no credible evidence to implicate him in terrorism.

2. Being a signatory of the UN places no requirement on Pakistan to extradite/hand over Hafiz Saeed to the US - where did you get that idea from?

Can you tell me why Interpol had issued a R C Notice against him in 2009?
International police Organisation action is a farce ha?
Common baby..

The Bounty is for his "Capture" sil vous plait!

 

[HariPrasad]

NEW DELHI: Amid row over Ved Pratap Vaidik's meeting with Mumbai attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed, Pakistan on Friday said it was not aware about the meeting and asserted that no action can be taken against the JuD chief as there was no evidence against him.

Pakistan high commissioner Abdul Basit, replying to a volley of questions on the issue during a meet the press programme at Press Club of India here, said it was a meeting between two private persons.

"Our government was not aware of this meeting and nor was the government of India. It was a meeting between two private individuals and nothing more," Basit said.





Asked whether Pakistani intelligence agency ISI was also not aware about the meeting, he only said Pakistani government has nothing to do with it.

On why no action was taken against the JuD chief for his alleged involvement in terror activities, the Pakistani high commissioner said there was "no evidence" to prosecute Saeed.

He said Pakistan government needs "hard evidence" to put Saeed in jail. "We do not have any evidence against him...We cannot put him in jail just to please anyone."

On whether Pakistan will again give visa to Vaidik if he applies for it, Basit evaded a direct reply and said he often visits the country and was given the travel document along with other members of a delegation which participated in a conference there.

The meeting of Vaidik, known to be close to BJP supporter and yoga guru Ramdev, had triggered a row with opposition taking on the government following which a report was sought from the Indian high commission in Pakistan.

External affairs minister Sushma Swaraj on Thursday said the high commission was not aware of the meeting.

No proof against Hafiz Saeed, can't put him in jail to please anyone: Pak envoy - The Times of India

There is nothing new. This was as expected. Now new Indian government should work out plan to neutralize Pakistani based militant. It should not be difficult at all looking to at the situation in Pakistan. You can get the work done by professional killer for few Dollars or weapon.

 

[imran_punjabi]

There is nothing new. This was as expected. Now new Indian government should work out plan to neutralize Pakistani based militant. It should not be difficult at all looking to at the situation in Pakistan. You can get the work done by professional killer for few Dollars or weapon.

u r welcome !

 

[majesticpankaj]

and what's indian Miltary Intel secret unit cum RAW is doing in Balochistan Fata ? Don't deny you don't train Afghan NDS. You get only what you pay for.

And I got a very factual reply for your talibs and haqqani rants. Just to put things and you in perspective so no more delusional rants ruin this thread further. Since you quoted your Dear Hilary,,, hear what she has to say American role in creating talibs and Haqqanis

^ (Youtube link, Hilary admitting america role in nurturing talibs and haqqani's)

Haqqani In white house

yes both US and pakistan are evil.. no denying of facts...
as far as baluchistan and FATA is concerned.. I would like to know.. why pakistan raises the issue of kashmir at every possible forum but they don't raise so called RAW's terrorism inside pakistan ? this really flabbergasted me ..listen to this

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

every criminal deny wrong doing. HS spill poison at india at every instance he is given a chance. he is poison.

"Poisonous rhetoric against India" is not a crime.

india did provide evidence of HS involvement to pak. it is pak that is obstinate.

We have been over this multiple times over the years - India provided no concrete evidence, even Indians, when challenged to reproduce said "evidence in multiple dossiers", cannot do so.

as i told before unless mumbai is resolved, i don't see anything good happening between india and pak. it is pak that has hold indo-pak relation hostage for a criminal.

I addressed that in my response to Karan.1970 in No proof against Hafiz Saeed, can't put him in jail to please anyone: Pak | Page 4

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, its an oft repeated logic by Pakistanis but a little flawed. Firstly, the unproven blame that is put on Modi is to have not acted fast and strong enough to prevent the Gujrat carnage. On the other hand, Hafiz Saeed is a UN designated terrorist. Multiple countries like USA, UK (not sure though) have also declared him a terrorist.

The allegation you point out is the watered down one that supporters of Modi like to bandy around to minimize his alleged culpability. The stronger allegations against Modi, that many in India and Pakistan believe are valid, are that he was either actively involved in directing the carnage or deliberately looked the other way (silent approval). Either allegation places him in the same category as the allegations against HS.

You are wrong. Hafiz Saeed has been freely transacting financially in Pakistan using the accounts of his terrorist designated organization JuD for many years now.

He not only collects donations for JuD thru Pakistani banking system, but also uses those donations at will. And given his public appearances all over Pakistan, I dont think there is any restriction in his travel what so ever.

and the "Best of her abilities" is as lame an excuse as they come.

If India or any other country believes that the limited sanctions against HS/JuD are not being implemented, the proper avenue to address those misgivings is in the UN. Has India or the US done so? Has the UN censured or warned Pakistan about not implementing the resolutions against HS/JuD?

Since he is not a convicted criminal in Pakistan, neither US nor Afghans owe any explanation for denying his presence to Pakistan.

Which does not change the fact that the US and Afghanistan were blatantly lying and got caught out by their own leaked diplomatic cables.

And I still don't quite understand your focus on this - the comment I responded to was:

Maybe we should start hosting Baloch Rebels and some FATA warriors to troll Pakistan . That would be fun !!.

I responded to the above - what does Brahamdegh's conviction (or not) have to do with it?

And it does matter that a UN designated terrorist is not a terrorist for you because he is not yet convicted by Pakistani courts, and yet a Pakistani civilian who also is not been convicted by the same courts and is also not labeled as a terrorist by any international body is a terrorist to you because he has a different view of Balochistan situation than you. Smells of hypocrisy if you ask me.

What matters is that Pakistan fulfill her responsibilities as a member of the UN by implementing the UN sanctions to the best of her abilities, and if India or any other country believe that Pakistan is not doing so, they are free to address the issue at the UN. Has India done that? Has Pakistan been censured for not implementing UN Resolutions correctly?

Implicated of what? lying to Pakistan about presence of an innocent Pakistani civilian in their country. Didnt know that was a crime.

Yes, implicated in lying about sheltering a known terrorist leader, and no, the individual was not innocent given that the cables also highlight the fact that the UN and US engaged in negotiations with him to help in the release of UN officials kidnapped by Baloch terrorist organizations in Pakistan, and has personally admitted that he is supporting the use of violence against the Pakistani State.

In increased pressure on Pakistan to act, the US has put Hafiz Saeed on its list of most-wanted terrorists and has announced a reward of $10 million for the capture or information leading to the capture of the man

India welcomes $10 million bounty on Hafiz Saeed - NDTV

Mus I say more?

This has been answered already: No proof against Hafiz Saeed, can't put him in jail to please anyone: Pak | Page 3

...and the same people expect India to vacate Siachen & give up parts of Kashmir to please them.....

No, Pakistan expects Indian to implement the UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir and engage in discussions over demilitarization of Siachen with a return to the situation prior to the launch of Indian hostilities in Siachen.

The UN sanctions against HS do not prescribe "jail", so you are conflating the two issues incorrectly.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Well PAK said ,

A) We don't have proof again AK Khan, please provide Proof against AK Khan on Nuclear Black Market.
B) OBL is not in PAK,

these above statement shows that either don't know what happening inside their country OR they are lying . if they don't know about it, its better to hand over Investigation to UN to find proof against them in past .

Like this If PAK don't have any proof then ask , CIA , FBI to find proof , they will find proof against Hafiz Saeed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well PAK said ,

A) We don't have proof again AK Khan, please provide Proof against AK Khan on Nuclear Black Market.

Actually AQ Khan was stripped of his position and placed under house arrest under the terms of a Presidential pardon, so Pakistan did in fact act against the individual once credible evidence was made available against him.

B) OBL is not in PAK,

No one knew where he really was until the US eventually tracked him down (with intelligence inputs from Pakistan, though Pakistan was not aware of the target at the time).

these above statement shows that either don't know what happening inside their country OR they are lying . if they don't know about it, its better to hand over Investigation to UN to find proof against them in past .

When you can find a country as large as Pakistan that has ZERO crime, only then can you argue that Pakistani security services were incompetent in not locating a man who went to extreme lengths to remain hidden.

Like this If PAK don't have any proof then ask , CIA , FBI to find proof , they will find proof against Hafiz Saeed.

Once you find the proof, let the world know please, and if it is credible, Pakistan will act.

The fact of the matter is that Indians do a song and dance (must be all that Bollywood influence) about "soooooo many dossiers provided to Pakistan", but when asked to reproduce the so called 'credible evidence against HS" in the dossiers, fail to do anything.