No Pakistan Military involvement in Libya.

[Mujeeb47]

Everybody is free. Anyone can go anywhere by following the legal process.

 

[Mujeeb47]

Mr. Riaz you have the right to love your country. India , like other nations , has dignity in the nations of world.
Thanks

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I meant the fundamentalist kind. The common perception among foreign fundamentalists like yourself is that indian muslims will side with them in the event of conflict. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have more kinship towards my countrymen than towards you. And like anyother patriotic indian , we will take up arms to defend our motherland. India is not ruled by "hindu" masters or "the west". It is ruled by the people and justice will be accorded to those who want it. As for violence, like i said....there are nutjobs on either side. We dont want you people in our country and we will do everything we can to protect our sovereignity..from childhood this is what im taught to say "INDIA is my country...and all indians are my brothers and sisters...." . My advice to you would be...stop deluding yourself. Whatever disagreement i have with my countrymen will be solved amongst ourselves.

So when Imam Mahdi unties all the muslims of the world with a islamic ruling system and with the assistance of Prophet Isa (jesus) PBUH when he returns you will still be a pathetic lunatic Indian patriotic loser? Or all of sudden switch of side after being enlightened?

 

[Kompromat]

What's wrong with my comments. If you feel inappropriate, just report.

Already done - btw on this forum you cannot "call someone names" , personal attacks result in a ban. Just an advice.

 

[Mike2011]

Already done - btw on this forum you cannot "call someone names" , personal attacks result in a ban. Just an advice.

Where did I "name called"?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I meant the fundamentalist kind. The common perception among foreign fundamentalists like yourself is that indian muslims will side with them in the event of conflict. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have more kinship towards my countrymen than towards you. And like anyother patriotic indian , we will take up arms to defend our motherland. India is not ruled by "hindu" masters or "the west". It is ruled by the people and justice will be accorded to those who want it. As for violence, like i said....there are nutjobs on either side. We dont want you people in our country and we will do everything we can to protect our sovereignity..from childhood this is what im taught to say "INDIA is my country...and all indians are my brothers and sisters...." . My advice to you would be...stop deluding yourself. Whatever disagreement i have with my countrymen will be solved amongst ourselves.

Did anyone else notice how he avoided commenting on the video that I posted??

Listen Riaz Bhai... Your above comment is laughable really... Apart from the fact that we as Muslims believe in Universal Brotherhood and have no use for borders/nationalism, what you are most obviously ignorant of is that the call for Islamic Unity is actually extremely strong in your own country... There are thousands of Indians who desire the return of the Caliphate... Fine... You dont like me... what are you going to do with your OWN countrymen who desire Islam?? Kill them?? Silence them?? tell them that they are fundamentalist?? Oh please... looks like you recently learnt the word fundamentalist and now out and about to use it in a random spread of your Indian charm... have you ever heard the word Cliche??

We are not expecting any favors from you... we have no desire to instigate a war against India... For some reason the Indian mindset is so messed up that despite the fact we constantly telling them that the next war will be started by India and finished by us, they still point fingers at us as the belligerent ones.. If you see a war led by Zardari as commander of Pak forces, fine, be my guest... you can resist because it will not have anything to do with Islam... but thats not whats coming towards you my friend...

The ball game is going to change... You ll be left in NO doubt as to which side you should be on not just as a Muslim but as a good human being regardless of your religion...

We shall be giving out a call to the Indian Airforce pilots with conscience and their hearts in the right place... Defect with your planes to Pakistan... but for all that, we have to show the world and particularly India that the new Pakistan is about Justice and social welfare and not Zardaris and Musharafs... This is surely our burden but we are not going to fail anyone... that is a promise I can make to you...

 

[Bang Galore]

We shall be giving out a call to the Indian Airforce pilots with conscience and their hearts in the right place... Defect with your planes to Pakistan...

Good luck with that. Nothing more to add here.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Thanks Bangalore... You like my idea yeah??

btw are you a pilot??

 

[SQ8]

I m taking away the pir title from you Santro... (jus kidding)

There are some flaws in your argument which require a detailed discussion... Dont want to go off topic here but I think Chogy's question is a good one which would require indepth discussion and exchange of ideas... Why not setup a new thread with Chogy's question and your answer and we can carry on from there?? I ll only deal with the obligation of having an Islamic state...

if I may add a point that is often overlooked by our people (believe me I did not understand it myself at one point) is that the spread of Islam essentially is due to the companions of the Prophet saw... when they reached a consensus on an issue, it becomes the strongest daleel (evidence) for legislation in Islam... This principle is so important that without it the whole of Islam would fall apart... I ll give you just one example... Why do we Muslims believe the Quran that we have is the same Quran that was revealed to the Prophet saw... It is because there is consensus of Sahabah RA on the Usmani Mushaf (the copy of Quran that was prepared by the third Caliph Uthman RA)... if this foundation is shaken then there is nothing left in Islam... infact it is one of the definitions of the Quran... a copy of the Uthmani Mushaf!!! interestingly this is unknown to many Muslims today!!!

So by this same principle if you look for other things that the companions agreed upon with absolute consensus on the issue, having an Ameer (Caliph) is one of them (they differed over the selection of the Ameer so there is no difference on this issue with the Shia, they wanted Imam Ali as Caliph which is perfectly legit) and infact they gave this matter such importance that they delayed the burial of the Prophet saw for three days until a Caliph was chosen... we all know that burying the dead is a fard upon the Muslim community... but here we had the companions delaying it for three days and not engaging in this fard until they selected an Ameer... (which one is the more important fard then... think)

This is just the principle behind the issue... There is more explanation to it which would clarify the matter... and when you go into the details of Islam then there is absolutely no way that you can implement its economics, social, political and judicial systems without referring it to the texts and Ahkam e Sultaniya... The bare minimum are always applicable and one remains a Muslim if he makes sure he keeps the pillers... but you then do not have Islam (you have a Mullah's Islam however)... It is not Islam as an ideology rather it becomes like any other religion...

So Chogy, you dont have a Buddhist state because Buddhism has absolutely no guidance as to how to set up a state and run its politics/economics and social systems... hope that makes it clear...

I do agree with Santro that the justice of Islam should be presented to the people... where I would disagree with is to make it an academic pastime and not engage politically to actually implement that justice... Santro's example about the land that is unused is of such importance that if properly applied, Pakistan's agri output can double (as there is half of the cultivatable land not being cultivate because of Feudalism/Capitalism)... We can keep talking about it but unless it is applied no one will benefit from this rule... Its implementation (along with a holistic implementation of all other rules is what the Islamic State is)... and if the Prophet saw is any role model... then he bled for the cause of making Islam dominant and supreme...

Somebody is about to give you a medicine.. tells you its good for you..but wont tell you what it is.. then would you still want it.
I disagree when it comes to implementing a system unless you revise it for our times.
I do not believe my religion tells me to stand on my head for ten hours without asking me to find why am I to do so.
Only the 5 basic tenets are non debatable
We have to believe that there is only one god..and Mohammed(S.A.W) is his last messenger.
We have to offer salah 5 times a day
we have to keep our fasts in ramadan
we have to offer zakat
and we must try to offer the hajj
.. the rest.. is for us to explore and understand.

case in point:
Eight out of ten people who read the surah "teeN'.. think that god is swearing on the olive and the fig
to think god is that petty(an-aozubillah)
The "teen(fig)".. refers to mount teen. near damascus.. where prophet yahya(john) is buried..where the People of Adam spread out from..
The "zaitoon(olive)" refers to the temple mount and its surroundings where there was an olive garden nearby.. where the prophets Abraham, Isaac , Joseph and Moses are buried.. and where Bibi marium(mary) gave birth to Issa(Jesus)..
God is swearing by these events.. not by foodstuff..
Yet all these mosques.. all these green,white and black turbaned people who scream khilfat.. keep prasing the olive and the fig for its qualities as foodstuff.. then why should I even wish for such people with petty understanding to lead any movement of Khilafat??

I have done this experiment with dozens of other Khilafat wannabes... and they all praised the olive and fig for its healing qualities and benifits etc.
Instead of understanding the depth to which the Quran teaches.. and the open understanding it demands.. these people regularly follow their mufti's..
Back in the days of Muslim Cordoba.. a Mufti was the lowest grade you earned.
A mufti is one who cannot interpret the Quran.. who is not allowed to . All he does is to look at multiple interpretations done by scholars , find appropriate solutions from those books and give the answer.. think of a Mufti as an Oath commissioner in the judicial system.
If mufti so and so has said so then you are happy. Look at what book, what reference he has used.
Read interpretations of the Quran.. then decide.

I am in no way against Khilafat.. I am against implementing it without understanding.. and definitely one that is implemented by people like those heading the JUI.. or Ji.. or the manny members here promoting ummah blindly like worms.
The Islamic Khilafat and system of governance is perfect.. and the best system.. but when implemented by men of wisdom and learning.. not by (pardon my bluntness).. goats.. in thier hands.. its implementation can be twisted, barbaric..and horrible.
Political implementation? who.. PPP, MMA?, PML-N.. ?.. Taliban?.. Army.. ?.. A mufti who takes 4 hours to find a simple cresent??
NO one in Pakistan's public leadership.. or even those with websites online have I found fit to lead me into such.. My heart cannot follow such people.. and till then I wait for a leader that does so.
and till then I oppose any attempts to establish a Khilafat by these elements.

And MBQ.. I am not pir.. I consider myself a bad Muslim.. But I take solace that I dont follow my religion blindly.. I do it willingly.. knowing the effects and consequences of each action i take.. whether its missing fajr prayers sometimes. Or saying "ya rasul-allah" when I see these bigoted turbaned freaks in the street...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Somebody is about to give you a medicine.. tells you its good for you..but wont tell you what it is.. then would you still want it.
I disagree when it comes to implementing a system unless you revise it for our times.
I do not believe my religion tells me to stand on my head for ten hours without asking me to find why am I to do so.
Only the 5 basic tenets are non debatable
We have to believe that there is only one god..and Mohammed(S.A.W) is his last messenger.
We have to offer salah 5 times a day
we have to keep our fasts in ramadan
we have to offer zakat
and we must try to offer the hajj
.. the rest.. is for us to explore and understand.

case in point:
Eight out of ten people who read the surah "teeN'.. think that god is swearing on the olive and the fig
to think god is that petty(an-aozubillah)
The "teen(fig)".. refers to mount teen. near damascus.. where prophet yahya(john) is buried..where the People of Adam spread out from..
The "zaitoon(olive)" refers to the temple mount and its surroundings where there was an olive garden nearby.. where the prophets Abraham, Isaac , Joseph and Moses are buried.. and where Bibi marium(mary) gave birth to Issa(Jesus)..
God is swearing by these events.. not by foodstuff..
Yet all these mosques.. all these green,white and black turbaned people who scream khilfat.. keep prasing the olive and the fig for its qualities as foodstuff.. then why should I even wish for such people with petty understanding to lead any movement of Khilafat??

I have done this experiment with dozens of other Khilafat wannabes... and they all praised the olive and fig for its healing qualities and benifits etc.
Instead of understanding the depth to which the Quran teaches.. and the open understanding it demands.. these people regularly follow their mufti's..
Back in the days of Muslim Cordoba.. a Mufti was the lowest grade you earned.
A mufti is one who cannot interpret the Quran.. who is not allowed to . All he does is to look at multiple interpretations done by scholars , find appropriate solutions from those books and give the answer.. think of a Mufti as an Oath commissioner in the judicial system.
If mufti so and so has said so then you are happy. Look at what book, what reference he has used.
Read interpretations of the Quran.. then decide.

I am in no way against Khilafat.. I am against implementing it without understanding.. and definitely one that is implemented by people like those heading the JUI.. or Ji.. or the manny members here promoting ummah blindly like worms.
The Islamic Khilafat and system of governance is perfect.. and the best system.. but when implemented by men of wisdom and learning.. not by (pardon my bluntness).. goats.. in thier hands.. its implementation can be twisted, barbaric..and horrible.
Political implementation? who.. PPP, MMA?, PML-N.. ?.. Taliban?.. Army.. ?.. A mufti who takes 4 hours to find a simple cresent??
NO one in Pakistan's public leadership.. or even those with websites online have I found fit to lead me into such.. My heart cannot follow such people.. and till then I wait for a leader that does so.
and till then I oppose any attempts to establish a Khilafat by these elements.

And MBQ.. I am not pir.. I consider myself a bad Muslim.. But I take solace that I dont follow my religion blindly.. I do it willingly.. knowing the effects and consequences of each action i take.. whether its missing fajr prayers sometimes. Or saying "ya rasul-allah" when I see these bigoted turbaned freaks in the street...

Santro I do not disagree with you... my problem is that educated and thinking young men like you are so often standing on the side and not joining in this mess with a view of taking an assertive leadership role... why leave the deen to these morons?? huh?? Dont you think that instead of being dishearted by the nonsense that is said in the name of Islam, Muslims who have some sanity left in them should start addressing these issues from an Islamic perspective and ensure that the coming Caliphate as promised by Rasool Allah is actually on the method of the Prophet instead of being on the method of Osama Bin Laden or the parrots that wear only green clothes thinking they are doing some service to the cause of islam or for that matter a CIA backed Caliphate??

That is my only problem with you... The hell... stop experimenting with these people man... You ll become only more angry with the things you find them say... believe me I stopped going to the mosque for a full year at one point because of the nonsense that I used to listen to... but there was one thing that I did not stop doing was to keep looking for clearing up my own concepts...

Leadership wont come down from Asmaan... It has to be from amongst ourselves... now either we tow the secular line because we do not find capable people amongst those who talk about Islam OR we stop playing with an obvious disaster (i.e Secularism) and spare no effort to firstly understand the basics of how the system should work in Islam... really that is not hard to do... the genuine scholars have done quite a bit of work in this field and some good translations of important work are available... Lets start talking about solving our economic problems and let the parrots keep saying Madina Madina a hundred times... no one is interested in giving them leadership... not you not me and not even people from amongst themselves... secondly to spread those ideas to build public opinion and thirdly strive politically with like minded people to effectively bring that change... thats all there is to it my dear... no need to look at PML, PPP, Taliban... Army has its worms like Musharaf too but that is not where the support for a good thing (leave alone Islam) can come from... there are good people in the Army though... its their job to defend this land... not just in the material battlefield but also in the battlefield of ideas, concepts, ideology... the more enlightened our soldier is... the stronger we become as people... ultimately delivering an enlightened leadership too... believe me man there are good people around... they are obviously not mainstream... but they are around... go and look for them...

and yaar... who told you pir has to be an angel... you are dear to me as long as you dont become like Qadafi... now that is someone I actually hate as such people are beyond all good and mercy and correction...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

We shall be giving out a call to the Indian Airforce pilots with conscience and their hearts in the right place... Defect with your planes to Pakistan.

..

And you are waiting for that to happen?? Amigo, you have a long wait ahead of you; don't forget to write it down in your will.

but for all that, we have to show the world and particularly India that the new Pakistan is about Justice and social welfare and not Zardaris and Musharafs... This is surely our burden but we are not going to fail anyone... that is a promise I can make to you...

What is the time frame for this momentous event to take place. Its been in the making for well nigh over 63 long years now- a long chequered history. Some other Era perhaps......