No military funds for Pakistan without specific actions

[Viper0011.]

So you do tacitly agree that US is also equally to be blamed

Either your eye sight is weak, or your English is. I clearly stated, you can't blame the US for anything. Specially, not for your own short comings. Its a very common thing in Pakistan to blame the Americans for the lack of all responsibility that lies within Pakistani ranks. The mental illusion is inside Pakistani minds. Never in the US minds. Someone said on this forum a week ago "we've been playing this game with the US for the past 7 years and we'll continue to play it". And my answer was, you aren't reading it. The US doesn't want to play any games. Its divorce time!!! And here is the first news!!

The US is a super power, she'll maintain whatever interests she deems necessary. Pakistan on the other hand, has never had any say in this relationship. The US gave Pakistan the time being relationship due to their needs. You had military leaders who can't understand politics and how democracies work. So the fault lies entirely on the Pakistani side. Your generals don't understand how to work with the US on direct basis, they just know to salute!! They also don't want to build a Civilian team to do this. So if they want to run all centers of power, well, the US won't deal with the generals. I've been saying it for years on here, SUITS, SUITS and SUITS elected by people. No one with military uniform going in front of American leadership!! They HATE it beyond their need.

Also, this brings up another point, the entire political drama has disturbed the Pakistani image of stabilization. It is the people who have to get away from the negative politics and stand firm on the path of progress. So the entire responsibility lies on Pakistan's end from ALL angles!!

 

[salarsikander]

They HATE it beyond their need.

Hi,

Clearly what you say is otherwise. If that were the case US would have never supported the regime of Zia Ul haq, would it then ?
Secondy, US will only support those who are deemed vital to their interests. Such as last time it was the most respected General Pervaiz Musharaf. Though slyly he double crossed them.

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,

Clearly what you say is otherwise. If that were the case US would have never supported the regime of Zia Ul haq, would it then ?
Secondy, US will only support those who are deemed vital to their interests. Such as last time it was the most respected General Pervaiz Musharaf. Though slyly he double crossed them.

Its useless to debate with you if you'll ignore critical details and will post one liners. Most respected "Gen. Mushy"?? HUH? That guy who can't even come back to his home country? That guy who the US openly said was playing the by pass game? That guy who STOLE $ 300 + million worth of US aid for the Pakistnis and sent it to the UK, Turkey and US for investments and personal benefit . Life is VERY twisted in your head vs. the Reality!!

The US will ask for anything when and how it perceives important for her goal. She's a super power and that's what a country with that much power does. The pay back was in billions. You should hold Mushy accountable for what he stole from the money sent to Pakistan for Pakistanis and Pak Army

Next, Gen. Zia, the US didn't "help him". He came to the US in 78 and US declined to intervene or assist. Then, in 81-81, he brought the Saudi's and Egyptians with him (with some back channel diplomacy with Israel already in pipes), and China was also supportive. That is WHY the US supported ALL these countries. Gen. Zia didn't have magic to beat the Russians. . If you don't know the reality than the fake pride they teach you, you should try to investigate first to gain some first hand knowledge yourself!!

@MastanKhan : Read up this dudes posts. And tell him your version of this situation (which is like mine). Its pretty clear that he knows it but wants to play dumb.

 

[happycanuck]

i pray that we never get aid from US.. We dont need more enemy for few millions in aids.. ask your new girlfriend india for your dirty jobs.

So by your own admission Pakistan was USA girlfriend and got abused by them. FYI India is not in the same league as your country. Time will prove me right.

 

[salarsikander]

That guy who STOLE $ 300 + million worth of US aid for the Pakistnis and sent it to the UK, Turkey and US for investments and personal benefit . Life is VERY twisted in your head vs. the Reality!!

Lol personal vendetta against him ? very typical of you Aurangzeb

Provide sources of your allegations and for crying out loud stop calling for assistance, is it so hard to hold on your own ?

Gen. Zia didn't have magic to beat the Russians. . If you don't know the reality than the fake pride they teach you, you should try to investigate first to gain some first hand knowledge yourself!!

Oh i get it so It wasnt US who was supplying us with weapons and the famous stingers, it was Egypt and Saudia Arabia

CIA had full info Pakistan Nuke program but had kept quite as soviet war on Afghanistan was ongoing, as soon as the war wrapped up, US immediately suspended all aid, hardware and went on with pressler amendment

 

[Viper0011.]

Lol personal vendetta against him ? very typical of you Aurangzeb

Provide sources of your allegations and for crying out loud stop calling for assistance, is it so hard to hold on your own ?

Oh i get it so It wasnt US who was supplying us with weapons and the famous stingers, it was Egypt and Saudia Arabia

CIA had full info Pakistan Nuke program but had kept quite as soviet war on Afghanistan was ongoing, as soon as the war wrapped up, US immediately suspended all aid, hardware and went on with pressler amendment

You are welcome to show your frustration on all these things. From your silly comments, its pretty visible you are at the bottom of the food chain. If you ever can get to someone who knows Mushy closely, find out reality yourself. I can't be engaged in a brainless, none-sense debate where the other side if either 18 or has a much lower access level to really understand the real picture. Its amazing how stuff looks from where we stand on the ladder

 

[salarsikander]

You are welcome to show your frustration on all these things. From your silly comments, its pretty visible you are at the bottom of the food chain. If you ever can get to someone who knows Mushy closely, find out reality yourself. I can't be engaged in a brainless, none-sense debate where the other side if either 18 or has a much lower access level to really understand the real picture. Its amazing how stuff looks from where we stand on the ladder

And the guys who has not even spent a week in Pakistan has not only access to picture but a whole movie lol

Perhaps you have been watching Matheira item song all this time

So no Sources to your unjustified allegations hehn, wasn't expecting anything better from you anyway

Just a typical cheap shot from orangzaib

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan : Here you go. The news you and I were waiting on. Who to blame? The military uniforms in Pakistan. How do we put this in their head "Salesmen, salesmen and salesmen in SUITS, no military uniform whatsoever when you deal with the US????

Viper,

To tell you the truth---I have spoken my mind so openly to them directly---that I often wonder---did i say that to them---WTF---am I insane or what--.

You can look at this board---andf it tells you how difficult the pakistanis are. Without any experience---they would want to argue with you about issues they have no comprehension of.

I can say for myself---that as a pakistani---I did not fight hard enough---knowing what I knew to confront them.

 

[Valkyrie]

Because Pakistan is not a rational actor. It carries a chip on its shoulder which almost forces Pakistan to behave in a defined and now predictable manner.

Each time the US gives these economic bonanza's in both forms - economic support as well as military aid, in any substantial amount, Pakistan uses this to declare war against India and change even the little stability that South Asia has. Its military planners always devise some way in which in their minds Pakistan's strategic disadvantage(in your words) gets neutralized and Pakistan comes out on top.

In 1965, bolstered by treaties of SEATO and CENTO, US aid in massive quantities and US supplied military weapons, Pakistan military started a war to capture Kashmir.
In 1999, once against Pakistan launches a war.

It is not me, but your Military establishment who you must question, over why they continue to do so.

Ergo, from empirical evidence, it is clear that arming or aiding Pakistan will lead to no other outcome than instability in South Asia.

The instances you have quoted have a common feature, if you've noticed. Episodes of 65 and 98 were initiated by Pakistan in response to the Indian unwillingness to consider very reasonable and legitimate demands of holding plebiscite in Kashmir and settling it in accordance with UN resolutions. So, if you were were to take a holistic view of these wars, you'd clearly see dispute of Kashmir and by extension the reprehensible Indian stubbornness to afford Kashmiri people their right of self-determination is at the root of violence between India and Pakistan.

Moreover, since you've so conveniently accused Pakistan of "adventurism" and casually overlooked the indulgences of Indian state, let me refresh your memory here. State of India annexed Junagadh, Hyderabad by force at its birth, supported and armed terrorists of Mukhti Bani in former East Pakistan, blatantly prying in the affairs of a sovereign country and steamrolling international norms of non-intervention. Later, India propped LTTE in Sirilanka resulting in the deaths of hundreds of civilian lives and destruction of domestic infrastructure. India's RAW has been actively involved in propping Shiekh Hasina's subservient Awami League and with her help, suppressing and eliminating the dissidents, turning Bangladesh into a virtual Indian vassal state. Nepal is also not unfamiliar with Indian exploits where the national govt recently threatened to break off all diplomatic ties to India on account of conspiracy to over throw an elected government. And please don't even get me started on the campaign of subversion and bloodshed India has waged in Balochistan, KPK, and Karachi through her proxies based in Afghanistan and Iran. And all of this is just the tip of the iceburg, the complete picture is far more abhorrent.

So you see, if anything, Word community in general and US in particular should stop arming India at once as further supplementing her is likely to embolden her into carrying out it's hegemonic designs in South-Asia with increased fervor and confidence, jeopardizing the stability of whole region.

 

[mikkix]

Pakistan cant fuk off USA. Pakistan defence establishment has their own interest in west like commission.
AND truly and rightly Pakistan dont have any other options to buy from other source. The position we are in is totally responsible by pakistan army and think tanks. Brainless tards cornered Pakistan and now making nuise and blaiming others.

 

[tsinga]

The instances you have quoted have a common feature, if you've noticed. Episodes of 65 and 98 were initiated by Pakistan in response to the Indian unwillingness to consider very reasonable and legitimate demands of holding plebiscite in Kashmir and settling it in accordance with UN resolutions. So, if you were were to take a holistic view of these wars, you'd clearly see dispute of Kashmir and by extension the reprehensible Indian stubbornness to afford Kashmiri people their right of self-determination is at the root of violence between India and Pakistan.

Moreover, since you've so conveniently accused Pakistan of "adventurism" and casually overlooked the indulgences of Indian state, let me refresh your memory here. State of India annexed Junagadh, Hyderabad by force at its birth, supported and armed terrorists of Mukhti Bani in former East Pakistan, blatantly prying in the affairs of a sovereign country and steamrolling international norms of non-intervention. Later, India propped LTTE in Sirilanka resulting in the deaths of hundreds of civilian lives and destruction of domestic infrastructure. India's RAW has been actively involved in propping Shiekh Hasina's subservient Awami League and with her help, suppressing and eliminating the dissidents, turning Bangladesh into a virtual Indian vassal state. Nepal is also not unfamiliar with Indian exploits where the national govt recently threatened to break off all diplomatic ties to India on account of conspiracy to over throw an elected government. And please don't even get me started on the campaign of subversion and bloodshed India has waged in Balochistan, KPK, and Karachi through her proxies based in Afghanistan and Iran. And all of this is just the tip of the iceburg, the complete picture is far more abhorrent.

So you see, if anything, Word community in general and US in particular should stop arming India at once as further supplementing her is likely to embolden her into carrying out it's hegemonic designs in South-Asia with increased fervor and confidence, jeopardizing the stability of whole region.

The problem with your narrative as it is with all Pakistani narrative is that you tend to invoke tangential issues.

I deliberately left out Pakistan's attack on Kashmir and then subsequently India (after Kashmir signing the Instrument of Accession) because at the time both India and Pakistan were in a scramble for territory.
However after initial period both countries settled down with whatever they were able to take.

Now after this, after this period Pakistan again initiated a war for more territory. The question is not whether you consider Pakistan's stance or war righteous or justified. Because I consider India's stance as righteous and justified.

The question is : What emboldened Pakistan to think it could wage war on India and win it? Win it in the sense of being able to take territory from India? While India, being a larger power did not wage war on Pakistan to take what it thought was righteously its land (kashmir)

The answer is clear: Massive Economic assistance by West, massive military aid by West and signing of security guarentees of SEATO and CENTO.

This is what led to Pakistan being able to wage war on India.

It is much the same. Every time Pakistan is given any substantial economic or military aid, it has used that to wage war and create instability in South Asia.

Now, we know from empirical evidence what Pakistan's behaviour will be if given the above mentioned items. Therefore, if the US wants stability and peace in South Asia, it must not give economic aid or military aid to Pakistan.

Let Pakistan buy what it wants to, out of its own funds. Its war making should not be subsidized by US tax payers.