No ‘martyrs’ in Army: Government

[KapitaanAli]

Shaheed is not a word it is a description of an act for a certain cause. It is necessary to be a Shaheed you have to be fighting a Munafiq, Kafir or an oppressor. It would be very hard to add this whole act in Indian Gov texts, If they some how manage to add this there would not be any one claiming the title on correct definition.

You can add any philosophy you want to it, but in the end, it's just a word that like any word takes different facets to it as time and language progress through geography.

There's no effort to add any word. Someone filed an enquiry. They got the reply.
The end.

 

[MagicMarker]

"Witness" seems to be a common theme.
Martyr and Shaheed both mean Witness.
My mothertongue uses the term "rakthasakshi" which literally translates to "Blood Witness".

But formal Sanskrit uses "hutatma" which means "sacrificed soul".

All these should be limited to public use and government documents shouldn't be corrupted with emotional terms.

(Veeramrityu is of course another term, but used a little differently.)

There is no such word called "Hutatma" in Sanskrit.

Hutatma was invented by Veer Savarkar in the early 20th century.

Huta means an offering made into the Yajna.

Hutatma means to offer one's soul (atma) into the Yajna i.e for a worthy/holy cause.


Hinduism does not have the concept of a "martyr" or a "Shaheed". So such a world does not exist in the Hindu lexicograph.

 

[KapitaanAli]

There is no such word called "Hutatma" in Sanskrit.

Hutatma was invented by Veer Savarkar in the early 20th century.

Huta means an offering made into the Yajna.

Hutatma means to offer one's soul (atma) into the Yajna i.e for a worthy/holy cause.


Hinduism does not have the concept of a "martyr" or a "Shaheed". So such a world does not exist in the Hindu lexicograph.

Not entirely true. Hutatma maybe a reinvented term, but Aatmahuti isn't.

It can be understood in various ways. I understand that you're not taking the sacrifice literally.
But aatma doesn't need to be the unseen soul. Thus the term aatmahatya.
Similarly, aatmahuti is sacrificing yourself.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Shaheed meaning 'to witness'. If someone is Shaheed, than he/she remained witness and faithful till last breath. So, any body may be Shaheed, in relative context. A Shaheed of Islam or Shaheed of any human law, as we commonly say in Pakistan: Siasi Shaheed.
We muslims don't have any monopoly on this word, btw.

 

[Hindustani78]

हतो वा प्राप्स्यसि स्वर्गं जित्वा वा भोक्ष्यसे महीम् |
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चय: || 37||


hato vā prāpsyasi swargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣhyase mahīm
tasmād uttiṣhṭha kaunteya yuddhāya kṛita-niśhchayaḥ


BG 2.37: If you fight, you will either be slain on the battlefield and go to the celestial abodes, or you will gain victory and enjoy the kingdom on earth. Therefore arise with determination, O son of Kunti, and be prepared to fight.

************

सुखदु:खे समे कृत्वा लाभालाभौ जयाजयौ |
ततो युद्धाय युज्यस्व नैवं पापमवाप्स्यसि || 38||

sukha-duḥkhe same kṛitvā lābhālābhau jayājayau
tato yuddhāya yujyasva naivaṁ pāpam avāpsyasi

BG 2.38: Fight for the sake of duty, treating alike happiness and distress, loss and gain, victory and defeat. Fulfilling your responsibility in this way, you will never incur sin.

***********

Allah states that even though the martyrs were killed in this life, their souls are alive and receiving provisions in the Dwelling of Everlasting Life. In his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Masruq said, "We asked `Abdullah about this Ayah,

﴿وَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَمْوَتاً بَلْ أَحْيَاءٌ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ ﴾

(Think not of those as dead who are killed in the way of Allah. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision.)


Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said,



«مَا مِنْ نَفْسٍ تَمُوتُ، لَهَا عِنْدَ اللهِ خَيْرٌ، يَسُرُّهَا أَنْ تَرْجِعَ إِلَى الدُّنْيَا، إِلَّا الشَّهِيدُ، فَإِنَّهُ يَسُرُّهُ أَنْ يَرْجِعَ إِلَى الدُّنْيَا فَيُقْتَلَ مَرَّةً أُخْرَى، لِمَا يَرَى مِنْ فَضْلِ الشَهَادَة»

(No soul that has a good standing with Allah and dies would wish to go back to the life of this world, except for the martyr. He would like to be returned to this life so that he could be martyred again, for he tastes the honor achieved from martyrdom.) Muslim collected this Hadith

 

[MagicMarker]

Not entirely true. Hutatma maybe a reinvented term, but Aatmahuti isn't.

What rubbish, there is no word called Aatmahuti in Sanskrit

It can be understood in various ways. I understand that you're not taking the sacrifice literally.
But aatma doesn't need to be the unseen soul. Thus the term aatmahatya.
Similarly, aatmahuti is sacrificing yourself.

Huti means an offering. Not a "sacrifice".

So AatmaHuti is an offer of the soul or 'offer of the self'

hatya is killing, so AatmaHatya is killing of the Self.

 

[KapitaanAli]

What rubbish, there is no word called Aatmahuti in Sanskrit



Huti means an offering. Not a "sacrifice".

So AatmaHuti is an offer of the soul or 'offer of the self'

hatya is killing, so AatmaHatya is killing of the Self.

When you offer your own self, it becomes a sacrifice.
Now you will say that it shouldn't be taken literally, and we'll reach an impasse.

So I'll let it be.

 

[MagicMarker]

When you offer your own self, it becomes a sacrifice.
Now you will say that it shouldn't be taken literally, and we'll reach an impasse.

So I'll let it be.

An offering is NOT a sacrifice.

Sacrifice signifies giving up something.

Offering signifies gaining something.

Offering oneself means to become part of a larger whole.

Which is why when an offering is made into the Yajna fire, its called a "Ahuti". or "not huti". Not Huti.


Its like saying, to love somebody is to hate somebody else. It does not work that way.

 

[KapitaanAli]

An offering is NOT a sacrifice.

Sacrifice signifies giving up something.

Offering signifies gaining something.

Offering oneself means to become part of a larger whole.

Which is why when an offering is made into the Yajna fire, its called a "Ahuti". or "not huti". Not Huti.


Its like saying, to love somebody is to hate somebody else. It does not work that way.

So are you okay with using the term Aatmahuti in war, to become part of the Brahma?

 

[MagicMarker]

So are you okay with using the term Aatmahuti in war, to become part of the Brahma?

There is no war that will make one part of Brahma in Hinduism.

so your question itself is moot and is based on an total ignorance of Hinduism.

 

[KapitaanAli]

There is no war that will make one part of Brahma in Hinduism.

so your question itself is moot and is based on an total ignorance of Hinduism.

Hinduism goes to the extent of saying you yourself and I myself are Brahma. (Or Brahman).
Aham Brahmasmi, Tatvamasi.

But sure, if you say that one can't imagine leaving physical form completely and be a part of it as spirit... Whatever.

I wonder then what you even mean by "being part of something big" in a yajna.

 

[Gurjot.S]

Indians don't have the concept of Shaheed they believe in Punar Janam. I am waiting that when will be Hanuman born again he has been dead for so long.

Rawan got his punar janam

today, he became Tantrik

 

[KapitaanAli]

Fire is suppose to purify the offering and the energy released is the pure form of that offering.

In a literal Aatmahuti, isn't the energy released nothing but the soul.
It purified your soul and your soul is released.

Similar to a aatmahuti on battlefield.

 

[undercover JIX]

One cannot offer one's soul since you are not in charge of it. One can only offer one's body which is different from the aatma.

That is why there is no word called Aatmahuti in sanskrit.

Repeating a lie 100 times will not make it the truth.

Hinduism treats the body and soul as different and separate entities.


SO death on the battlefield can be called "Virgata" or "Veer Gathi" as its known in Hindi. It would mean "gone bravely" or "brave gone"

as far as i know, in Islam also Soul and body are two different things. Death is for physical body and not for soul. death occurs when soul leaves the body.

Shaheed, If we do not go into too much religious details, Giving respect and honor to dead soldiers who died defending and fighting for country is a good concept. helps to boost the moral. benefits to family members as well. If there is no concept of honoring your soldiers after death, even with a special title" Shaheed" and just calling then causalities and deaths is not good. All Soldiers and warriors and fight and die for a cause, their death is different then any other causality and death of ordinary person.

I hope I made sense, I tried to be as simple as possible and avoided bringing religion in it.

Thanks.

 

[graphican]

Hinduism doesn't have any close concept to "shaheed", infect no word exists to describe that. How unfortunate that they had to borrow a word from their enemies of war to glorify their own dead soldiers.

That's the difference between man made rules vs God.