What's new

No, Islam Isn’t Inherently Violent, And The Math Proves It!

Do you have a breakdown of how many of these deaths were caused by US air strikes or US soldiers? Or are you planning on blaming us for you people killing each other too?


Sir,

Any killings that happened during the U S occupation are deaths during american watch. As the U S takes credit of the victory---so the deaths are credited to its account as well.
 
.
Not so inherently violent islamists have banned you :P .................. I guess that proves they are not violent :D

The verses he's talking about all have contexts and historical facts attached to them which are ignored by terrorists and islamaphobes alike.

And banning someone for sprouting rubbish means you are a terrorist? How did you come to that conclusion?
 
.
The verses he's talking about all have contexts and historical facts attached to them which are ignored by terrorists and islamaphobes alike.

And banning someone for sprouting rubbish means you are a terrorist? How did you come to that conclusion?

His post contained the reply to your query....

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.
 
.
Despite recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen, Westerners face very little risk from Islamist terrorists.

There is a widely held belief in the United States today that Islam is a religion that goads its followers to violence. And indeed, global terrorism today is disproportionately an Islamist phenomenon, as I show in my recent book. The headlines in the past months have been full of Islamist-fueled violence, such asISIS killing its hostages, the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, and yesterday’s attack on a Copenhagen café.

And a cursory look at the data shows that from 1994-2008, I found that 204 high-casualty terrorist bombings occurred worldwide and that Islamists were responsible for 125, or 61 percent, of these incidents, accounting for 70 percent of all deaths.

I exclude from the data all terrorist incidents that occurred in Iraq after the American invasion, and I consider attacks on occupying military forces anywhere to be guerilla resistance, not terrorism. I also use a restrictive definition of “Islamist” and classify attacks by Chechen separatists as ethnonational rather than Islamist terrorism. In other words, even when we define both “terrorism” and “Islamist” restrictively, thereby limiting the number of incidents and casualties that can be blamed on Islamists, Islamists come out as the prime culprits.

So, all that would seem to suggest Islam is more violent, right?

Not so. Rewind fifty or a hundred years and it was communists, anarchists, fascists, and others who thought than any means justified their glorious ends. Even now, Islamists are by no means the sole perpetrators. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka and Colombia’s “narcoterrorists” blow up civilians and have nothing to do with Islam. In the United States, law enforcement considers the “sovereign citizens movement” to be a greater threat than Islamist terrorists. However, Islamists do commit most of the terrorism globally these days.

Look more closely, though, and you’ll see they don’t attack in the West very often. Of the 125 attacks committed by Islamists that I studied, 77—62 percent—of them were committed in predominantly Muslim countries, and their victims were overwhelmingly other Muslims. Another 40 attacks took place in just three countries—Israel, India, and the Philippines. Only four of the 125 attacks happened in the Western Hemisphere or Europe. They were ghastly and dramatic, just as they were intended to be. But they were, and still are, rare.

That means the risk of an American being killed by any act of terrorism in a given year is roughly one in 3.5 million, and the chances are that the act of terrorism won’t be committed by an Islamist. These facts are all the more remarkable given how easy it is to be a terrorist. The attacks on Charlie Hebdo were well-planned, but any cretin acting alone can throw a homemade bomb into a crowded café—or walk into a classroom and open fire. Three million Muslims live in the United States, and odds of an American being crushed to death by their own furniture or television exceed those of being killed by an Islamist.

The guys in Muslim skullcaps and the women in hijabs I might run into tonight at the Arab-run convenience store down the street will be last folks I’ll fear.
Things get even more interesting when we look at other ways that people kill each other besides terrorism. In one of the most influential works of social science penned in the late 20th century, Samuel Huntington claimed that Muslim societies are “bloody.” He asserted that they experience more major intrastate political violence, meaning civil wars, rebellions, interethnic clashes, and sustained government repression. These types of violence claim far more lives than do terrorist acts, which take the form of one-off events.

Huntington provided no support for his claim, and I tested it. The world experienced 235 episodes of intrastate violence that claimed over one thousand lives between 1946 and 2007. A total of just over 21 million people lost their lives in these conflicts.

Huntington’s thesis about Muslim bloodiness fares badly when we look at the evidence. In predominantly Muslim countries, on average, 0.65 percent of the population perished in major episodes of intrastate violence. In non-Muslim countries, 0.72 percent died in such episodes on average. In the postwar period, Muslim countries suffered slightly less severely from loss of life in major episodes of political violence than non-Muslim countries.

Analyzing the data is tricky. In order to have confidence in the results, it’s necessary to crunch the numbers in a multitude of ways. But any way you slice the data Huntington’s thesis falls flat. Muslim societies are not more prone to mass political violence than others.

What about violent crime? Here Muslims are way behind the rest of us—and in a good way. Homicide rates in Muslim-majority countries average about two murders per annum per 100,000 people. In non-Muslim countries, the average rate is about 8 per 100,000. Murder rates fluctuate from year to year, but they are consistently low in Muslim societies. The homicide rate in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, is 1 per 100,000—one-fifth the rate of the world’s largest Christian country, the United States. Christian countries live with murder rates that are unknown in the Muslim world. Brazilians and Mexicans are used to murder rates in the 15-25 range; the rate in Venezuela tops 50. Turks, Egyptians, Iranians, and Malaysians live with rates in the 2-4 range. In a good year, Christian South Africa lives with a murder rate of around 30. In a bad year, the rate in Muslim Senegal is one-tenth of that. Anyone who is skeptical of these numbers is invited to walk through minaret-dotted Dakar and steeple-studded Johannesburg at night and compare their experiences in the two cities. For that matter, have a stroll after dark in the low-income areas of Istanbul or Ankara. Then do so in Philadelphia or Oakland.

Differences this big call for an explanation. We can rule out several possibilities. One is that Muslims live under more authoritarian political regimes where the bad guys have more to fear from the authorities. In fact, the data show that authoritarian regimes do no better at controlling violent crime than democracies do. Even if Muslims generally live under harsher political regimes, they are not less prone to crime for that reason.

Sacred texts don’t explain anything either. The Quran staunchly prohibits murder. But the Bible and the foundational texts of every other major religion do as well.

But one possible explanation arises from the data: Greater socioeconomic inequality is correlated with higher homicide rates, and Muslim societies have comparatively low levels of inequality. The regions with the most murder, Latin America and southern Africa, also have the highest values on the so-called Gini score, the statistic that economists and political scientists use to measure class inequality. High economic inequalities (which is what a high Gini score indicates) and high murder rates go together. Statistical analysis shows that countries with proportionately larger Muslim populations have lower Gini scores and lower murder rates.

We don’t yet know why Muslims have lower murder rates and lower economic inequalities, but we do know that they enjoy both. We also suspect that lower inequalities make for less social tension and less homicide.

Are Muslims violent? These days, global terrorism is mainly Islamist. Even though the vast majority of Muslims oppose terrorism, it’s true their religion has a terrorism problem. Nothing is gained by denying it. But Islamists rarely strike targets in the West, and when it comes to mass political violence, Muslims do better, but only a tiny bit better, than others. They do far better at avoiding murder.

As I get out of my car near home in Oakland tonight, I will miss the relative safety of the teeming slum I once lived near in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city. And while there are quite a few Muslims in my neighborhood in Oakland, I can’t say I’ll be on edge worrying about a terrorist attack. In fact, the guys in Muslim skullcaps and the women in hijabs I might run into tonight at the Arab-run convenience store down the street will be last folks I’ll fear.
No, Islam Isn’t Inherently Violent, And The Math Proves It - The Daily Beast

@TimeTraveller @syedali73 @jamahir @LoveIcon @Pakistani shaheens @JonAsad @halupridol @Jf Thunder @utraash @graphican @BDforever @Maira La @yesboss @Star Wars @Lord Zen @khawaja07 @Mujahid Memon @jbgt90 @Razia Sultana @pkuser2k12 @faisal6309 @Akheilos @Mike_Brando @rockstar08 @Dr. Stranglove @haviZsultan @war khan @Jazzbot @DJ Crudept @Fawad Mahsud @naveen mishra @Spy Master @TankMan @MastanKhan @Ind4Ever @dexter @raptor22 @Gunsnroses @Muhammad Omar @Jay12345 @mr42O @venu309 @Fracker @Pakistani Exile @Patriots @Slav Defence @Aether @RescueRanger


Maths is the closest one can come to the words of God,it never lies
-Taken from a movie
On topic
If the maths says it,then it's right :enjoy::enjoy:
 
.
Not so inherently violent islamists have banned you :P .................. I guess that proves they are not violent :D
Maybe using ur brain is not part of ur habits but please keep our forum out of ur brainless shit! Spreading lies + being delusional + preaching hatred repeatedly should deserve a ban!

His post contained the reply to your query....
So just coz he being an Indian with no knowledge of Islam said something it is automatically right? I do see why *** kissing is common for you lot!


the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The Arabic language is not a dead language it is the same language in which Quran was revelaed one can easily go back to it to confirm what each word means and where it applies...Many Christians still fight if Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek or Latin so going back to nothing cant be equated....

There are many verses of the Quran which were stories of the past (Prophets Adam to Jesus all existed before Muhammad and their stories are in the Quran as a reminder....restrained to the past as already happened and cant be changed)...so how are they NOT RESTRAINED by historical context? So before blindly following a bashing peer baba of Indian descend try using ur rusty brain it might do wonders! :enjoy:
 
Last edited:
.
Maybe using ur brain is not part of ur habits but please keep our forum out of ur brainless shit! Spreading lies + being delusional + preaching hatred repeatedly should deserve a ban!
So just coz he being an Indian with no knowledge of Islam said something it is automatically right? I do see why *** kissing is common for you lot!
The Arabic language is not a dead language it is the same language in which Quran was revelaed one can easily go back to it to confirm what each word means and where it applies...Many Christians still fight if Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek or Latin so going back to nothing cant be equated....

There are many verses of the Quran which were stories of the past (Prophets Adam to Jesus all existed before Muhammad and their stories are in the Quran as a reminder....restrained to the past as already happened and cant be changed)...so how are they NOT RESTRAINED by historical context? So before blindly following a bashing peer baba of Indian descend try using ur rusty brain it might to wonders! :enjoy:

LOL. I HAVE read the parts where it says precisely what the posters had stated. It was pretty explicit about the chopping of heads and limbs. If I quote it here I will be banned :lol:
 
.
His post contained the reply to your query....
the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

That part is a lie. As I have described in my posts, there is very clear and VERY, VERY RESTRICTING CONTEXT for all the Quranic verses. There is also restricting context for the terms 'Kafir' and 'Jihad'. Their literary context is restricting it to one specific time and one specific place and so is the historical one.
1- Very, very, very, restricted to one specific context and to only be done by the Prophet himself. It is limited to one year, 'the final year' and to one place, the Masjid ul haram i.e Makkah. The verse exactly before the quoted verse says:
''..let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year..'' [9:28].
Surat At-Tawbah - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

From a link I provided:
This is quotation taken completely out of context. If you read the chapter(Surah At-Taubah) from the beginning the first verse talks about the treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (Pagans) of Mecca who used to persecute the muslims who as of yet had not retaliated.
Refuting lies about Islam: Allegation that the Quran tells Muslims to 'kill disbelievers wherever you find them'

The chapter itself is also littered with rules and restrictions, for example this:
''If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Quran, 9:6]

By peddling the exact same narrative the terrorists use, despite having it debunked dozens of times, you are literally helping the terrorists.
 
.
LOL. I HAVE read the parts where it says precisely what the posters had stated. It was pretty explicit about the chopping of heads and limbs. If I quote it here I will be banned :lol:
Sorry I dont speak ignorance...i know you live off it...because on this very thread @TankMan has addressed each of the lies you soo much belief and if you cant be bothered to correct your misinformation, I cant be bothered to try to understand your question!

Enjoy living in your denial and ignorance! :tup:
 
.
LOL. I HAVE read the parts where it says precisely what the posters had stated. It was pretty explicit about the chopping of heads and limbs. If I quote it here I will be banned :lol:
Chopping off heads and limbs is explicit and clear, and so are the restrictions and circumstances under which it is to be done. If you quote one part but hide the other, you are in no way interested in actual debate and just want to bad-mouth Islam.
I'll quote the verses for you. :
''(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."
[8:12].

Who over here is literally an angel? Nobody. So it does not apply to us. There is also restrictive context, that says it only applies to a battlefield.
''O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battle-field, never turn your backs to them. [8:15]
''They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) about the spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for Allah and the Messenger." So fear Allah and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), if you are believers.'' [8:1]
It is also clear that this chapter is addressed only to the Prophet.
The chapter itself is titled: ''The Spoils of War''.
 
.
That part is a lie. As I have described in my posts, there is very clear and VERY, VERY RESTRICTING CONTEXT for all the Quranic verses. There is also restricting context for the terms 'Kafir' and 'Jihad'. Their literary context is restricting it to one specific time and one specific place and so is the historical one.

You are free to believe god gave him a day to day instructions. :coffee: Others see it differently.

From a link I provided:

Refuting lies about Islam: Allegation that the Quran tells Muslims to 'kill disbelievers wherever you find them'

The chapter itself is also littered with rules and restrictions, for example this:
''If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Quran, 9:6]

By peddling the exact same narrative the terrorists use, despite having it debunked dozens of times, you are literally helping the terrorists.

Wow. The Pagans are so lucky that they first get attacked and killed and then get asylum when they beg for it :P ........... living the dream..... I guess their wives becomes slaves ?
 
.
Chopping off heads and limbs is explicit and clear, and so are the restrictions and circumstances under which it is to be done. If you quote one part but hide the other, you are in no way interested in actual debate and just want to bad-mouth Islam.
I'll quote the verses for you. :
''(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."
[8:12].

Who over here is literally an angel? Nobody. So it does not apply to us. There is also restrictive context, that says it only applies to a battlefield.
''O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battle-field, never turn your backs to them. [8:15]
''They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) about the spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for Allah and the Messenger." So fear Allah and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), if you are believers.'' [8:1]
It is also clear that this chapter is addressed only to the Prophet.
The chapter itself is titled: ''The Spoils of War''.
I think it should be made clear and public when an Indian says :

LOL. I HAVE read the parts where it says precisely
and then contradicts what the verse says we should automatically assume he has never read it...and basically has been browsing anti Islamic sites or even worse just agreeing based on the flags of the poster!
 
.
Sorry I dont speak ignorance...i know you live off it...because on this very thread @TankMan has addressed each of the lies you soo much belief and if you cant be bothered to correct your misinformation, I cant be bothered to try to understand your question!

Enjoy living in your denial and ignorance! :tup:
Relevant:
''damnant quodnon intelligunt'' (latin proverb)
They condemn what they do not understand
 
.
Sorry I dont speak ignorance...i know you live off it...because on this very thread @TankMan has addressed each of the lies you soo much belief and if you cant be bothered to correct your misinformation, I cant be bothered to try to understand your question!

Enjoy living in your denial and ignorance! :tup:

Thank you for letting me live in ignorance. I guess I don't have to seek asylum. :tup:
 
.
Despite recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen, Westerners face very little risk from Islamist terrorists.

There is a widely held belief in the United States today that Islam is a religion that goads its followers to violence. And indeed, global terrorism today is disproportionately an Islamist phenomenon, as I show in my recent book. The headlines in the past months have been full of Islamist-fueled violence, such asISIS killing its hostages, the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, and yesterday’s attack on a Copenhagen café.

And a cursory look at the data shows that from 1994-2008, I found that 204 high-casualty terrorist bombings occurred worldwide and that Islamists were responsible for 125, or 61 percent, of these incidents, accounting for 70 percent of all deaths.

I exclude from the data all terrorist incidents that occurred in Iraq after the American invasion, and I consider attacks on occupying military forces anywhere to be guerilla resistance, not terrorism. I also use a restrictive definition of “Islamist” and classify attacks by Chechen separatists as ethnonational rather than Islamist terrorism. In other words, even when we define both “terrorism” and “Islamist” restrictively, thereby limiting the number of incidents and casualties that can be blamed on Islamists, Islamists come out as the prime culprits.

So, all that would seem to suggest Islam is more violent, right?

Not so. Rewind fifty or a hundred years and it was communists, anarchists, fascists, and others who thought than any means justified their glorious ends. Even now, Islamists are by no means the sole perpetrators. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka and Colombia’s “narcoterrorists” blow up civilians and have nothing to do with Islam. In the United States, law enforcement considers the “sovereign citizens movement” to be a greater threat than Islamist terrorists. However, Islamists do commit most of the terrorism globally these days.

Look more closely, though, and you’ll see they don’t attack in the West very often. Of the 125 attacks committed by Islamists that I studied, 77—62 percent—of them were committed in predominantly Muslim countries, and their victims were overwhelmingly other Muslims. Another 40 attacks took place in just three countries—Israel, India, and the Philippines. Only four of the 125 attacks happened in the Western Hemisphere or Europe. They were ghastly and dramatic, just as they were intended to be. But they were, and still are, rare.

That means the risk of an American being killed by any act of terrorism in a given year is roughly one in 3.5 million, and the chances are that the act of terrorism won’t be committed by an Islamist. These facts are all the more remarkable given how easy it is to be a terrorist. The attacks on Charlie Hebdo were well-planned, but any cretin acting alone can throw a homemade bomb into a crowded café—or walk into a classroom and open fire. Three million Muslims live in the United States, and odds of an American being crushed to death by their own furniture or television exceed those of being killed by an Islamist.

The guys in Muslim skullcaps and the women in hijabs I might run into tonight at the Arab-run convenience store down the street will be last folks I’ll fear.
Things get even more interesting when we look at other ways that people kill each other besides terrorism. In one of the most influential works of social science penned in the late 20th century, Samuel Huntington claimed that Muslim societies are “bloody.” He asserted that they experience more major intrastate political violence, meaning civil wars, rebellions, interethnic clashes, and sustained government repression. These types of violence claim far more lives than do terrorist acts, which take the form of one-off events.

Huntington provided no support for his claim, and I tested it. The world experienced 235 episodes of intrastate violence that claimed over one thousand lives between 1946 and 2007. A total of just over 21 million people lost their lives in these conflicts.

Huntington’s thesis about Muslim bloodiness fares badly when we look at the evidence. In predominantly Muslim countries, on average, 0.65 percent of the population perished in major episodes of intrastate violence. In non-Muslim countries, 0.72 percent died in such episodes on average. In the postwar period, Muslim countries suffered slightly less severely from loss of life in major episodes of political violence than non-Muslim countries.

Analyzing the data is tricky. In order to have confidence in the results, it’s necessary to crunch the numbers in a multitude of ways. But any way you slice the data Huntington’s thesis falls flat. Muslim societies are not more prone to mass political violence than others.

What about violent crime? Here Muslims are way behind the rest of us—and in a good way. Homicide rates in Muslim-majority countries average about two murders per annum per 100,000 people. In non-Muslim countries, the average rate is about 8 per 100,000. Murder rates fluctuate from year to year, but they are consistently low in Muslim societies. The homicide rate in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, is 1 per 100,000—one-fifth the rate of the world’s largest Christian country, the United States. Christian countries live with murder rates that are unknown in the Muslim world. Brazilians and Mexicans are used to murder rates in the 15-25 range; the rate in Venezuela tops 50. Turks, Egyptians, Iranians, and Malaysians live with rates in the 2-4 range. In a good year, Christian South Africa lives with a murder rate of around 30. In a bad year, the rate in Muslim Senegal is one-tenth of that. Anyone who is skeptical of these numbers is invited to walk through minaret-dotted Dakar and steeple-studded Johannesburg at night and compare their experiences in the two cities. For that matter, have a stroll after dark in the low-income areas of Istanbul or Ankara. Then do so in Philadelphia or Oakland.

Differences this big call for an explanation. We can rule out several possibilities. One is that Muslims live under more authoritarian political regimes where the bad guys have more to fear from the authorities. In fact, the data show that authoritarian regimes do no better at controlling violent crime than democracies do. Even if Muslims generally live under harsher political regimes, they are not less prone to crime for that reason.

Sacred texts don’t explain anything either. The Quran staunchly prohibits murder. But the Bible and the foundational texts of every other major religion do as well.

But one possible explanation arises from the data: Greater socioeconomic inequality is correlated with higher homicide rates, and Muslim societies have comparatively low levels of inequality. The regions with the most murder, Latin America and southern Africa, also have the highest values on the so-called Gini score, the statistic that economists and political scientists use to measure class inequality. High economic inequalities (which is what a high Gini score indicates) and high murder rates go together. Statistical analysis shows that countries with proportionately larger Muslim populations have lower Gini scores and lower murder rates.

We don’t yet know why Muslims have lower murder rates and lower economic inequalities, but we do know that they enjoy both. We also suspect that lower inequalities make for less social tension and less homicide.

Are Muslims violent? These days, global terrorism is mainly Islamist. Even though the vast majority of Muslims oppose terrorism, it’s true their religion has a terrorism problem. Nothing is gained by denying it. But Islamists rarely strike targets in the West, and when it comes to mass political violence, Muslims do better, but only a tiny bit better, than others. They do far better at avoiding murder.

As I get out of my car near home in Oakland tonight, I will miss the relative safety of the teeming slum I once lived near in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city. And while there are quite a few Muslims in my neighborhood in Oakland, I can’t say I’ll be on edge worrying about a terrorist attack. In fact, the guys in Muslim skullcaps and the women in hijabs I might run into tonight at the Arab-run convenience store down the street will be last folks I’ll fear.
No, Islam Isn’t Inherently Violent, And The Math Proves It - The Daily Beast

@TimeTraveller @syedali73 @jamahir @LoveIcon @Pakistani shaheens @JonAsad @halupridol @Jf Thunder @utraash @graphican @BDforever @Maira La @yesboss @Star Wars @Lord Zen @khawaja07 @Mujahid Memon @jbgt90 @Razia Sultana @pkuser2k12 @faisal6309 @Akheilos @Mike_Brando @rockstar08 @Dr. Stranglove @haviZsultan @war khan @Jazzbot @DJ Crudept @Fawad Mahsud @naveen mishra @Spy Master @TankMan @MastanKhan @Ind4Ever @dexter @raptor22 @Gunsnroses @Muhammad Omar @Jay12345 @mr42O @venu309 @Fracker @Pakistani Exile @Patriots @Slav Defence @Aether @RescueRanger
Thanks for tagging Sir.....:cheers:....
 
.
You are free to belie god gave him a day to day instructions. :coffee: Others see it differently.
At least none of us are ridiculing what you believe in = ignorance...But infact i even told you to dwell in it with a :tup:

Thank you for letting me live in ignorance. I guess I don't have to seek asylum. :tup:
Why would you need to seek asylum? Are you at war with Muslims? Or is your govt throwing you out of your lands? You see those are the conditions described in the very verse you claim to have read!

Relevant:
''damnant quodnon intelligunt'' (latin proverb)
They condemn what they do not understand
Very much so! ;)
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom