New wave of well-off Pakistani women drawn to conservative Islam

[Moorkh]

Wouldn't it be even more convenient to take off the bikini as well? Hey if convenience is all that we take into account, why not turn all beaches into legal nude beaches?

The purpose of clothing is not just to hide the skin but also to hide the shape, dynamics & curves of a females body as they are designed to instigate the opposite sex. A beautiful woman in a bikini will force all kinds of impure thoughts in the minds of men who gaze upon her but the same women would draw only respect if dressed gracefully and respectfully.

the purpose of clothing was initially just to help humans adapt to their surroundings, so they wore furs to keep themselves warm and leather armor to protect themselves in battle. eventually clothing also took on the role of beautifying a person. making the person look more presentable and bring out the person's beauty.

clothing was never meant to completely hide the physical aspect of the person.

if seeing a woman in a bikini forces 'impure' thoughts on a man, then the fault lies with the man. and even when the thoughts appear, the onus is on the man to keep himself in check. a person who blames a woman for his impure thughts is just being dishonest.

for they men who get impure thoughts because of bikinis, no clothing will actually work. they will imagine hte woman in a bikini anyways. dont try to blame the women for the faults of perverted men.

 

[Zarvan]

All this is something that seems to have evolved down the centuries as Islam has started to look inward instead of forward.

The "minimum requirements set out by the Holy Quran (word of Allah)" are very clear per the written word from what I see.

Extend your head cover over your bossom. - The odhni, dupatta, is regularly worn over the bossom by both Hindu and Muslim women. So is the pallu of the sari btw.

Transparency is the choice of the woman. If she is wearing something transparent, then what does that tell you about "free choice" regarding having to cover that up?

Or turning ones gaze for example. Does the burqa equally then not allow the woman to look outward where she pleases but not the vice versa?

Cover/protect ones ornaments. Sage advice. I would do the same if I were to pay through my backside in buying those!

Draw ones outergarments around you. As long as you are not walking around in your under garments, your outer garments are around you. No issue there.

Everything else is subjective interpretation.

Sir Surah Al Ahza says Jilbab which used to cover head and face and in Islam don't know show your beauty face and hair also come in beauty of women Sir and also for your information with Quran we also have sunnah and hadees study that to

the purpose of clothing was initially just to help humans adapt to their surroundings, so they wore furs to keep themselves warm and leather armor to protect themselves in battle. eventually clothing also took on the role of beautifying a person. making the person look more presentable and bring out the person's beauty.

clothing was never meant to completely hide the physical aspect of the person.

if seeing a woman in a bikini forces 'impure' thoughts on a man, then the fault lies with the man. and even when the thoughts appear, the onus is on the man to keep himself in check. a person who blames a woman for his impure thughts is just being dishonest.

for they men who get impure thoughts because of bikinis, no clothing will actually work. they will imagine hte woman in a bikini anyways. dont try to blame the women for the faults of perverted men.

Women body attracts men that is natural so fault is not men in this case GOD has ordered women to cover up than expose if she is not covering herself up it is her fault

 

[vsdoc]

Sir first read what Jilbab means than talk Jilbab is a cloth which is put on face to cover it Sir first at least learn arabic

Sir the written word does not mention jilbab. The author interprets outergarments as such. Outergarments of Arabian dress incidentally.

So either you submit that the Quran and Arabic interpretation is what drives Islam.

Or you agree that Islam is a world religion with standard universal laws for all.

Coming back to the jilbab, in the desert, the head cover is by norm pulled over the face to protect from the heat and dryness and sand.

Are we then putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5?

Sir Surah Al Ahza says Jilbab which used to cover head and face and in Islam don't know show your beauty face and hair also come in beauty of women Sir and also for your information with Quran we also have sunnah and hadees study that to

Sir there are many versions of 59 I have gone through. Also posted one here which is simple and says nothing of the sort. I have already replied to you on the jilbab. And as far as I have read here, it is not "beauty" but "ornaments" that is the literal translation. "Beauty" seems to have an agenda harking to the subjective interpretation I have spoken about. Ditto for the inclusion of the face and the hair.

 

[Zarvan]

Sir the written word does not mention jilbab. The author interprets outergarments as such. Outergarments of Arabian dress incidentally.

So either you submit that the Quran and Arabic interpretation is what drives Islam.

Or you agree that Islam is a world religion with standard universal laws for all.

Coming back to the jilbab, in the desert, the head cover is by norm pulled over the face to protect from the heat and dryness and sand.

Are we then putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5?

Sir not from heat but to protect women because that is order of ALLAH she has to do it it is in the Quran read Quran first before talking about Islam Jilbab is arabic word in Surah Al Ahzab which is the cloth used to cover head and face and that is order of ALLAH from past 1400 years and also order in Sunnah of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and those women who do not cover themselves will face worst punishment in Hell according to Islam

 

[Moorkh]

Would you still not care if the choice of your sister/wife is not to wear anything at all? Or would you be compelled to draw a line somewhere? Even society draws certain lines but there are no objections against those lines.......why must objections be raised on lines imposed by a religion? It's not as if we are burning the wife by tying her to her husband's pyre!

we clearly consider sati wrong. people back then believed otherwise. but they questioned it and got rid of it. so using the very example you brought up, i see no problem in questioning the social/cultural/religious practices.

if my sister, mother, wife or daughter decides to walk around naked, i would let them. their choice to do as they wish. unless ofcourse we are visiting some excessively cold place

society draws several lines and it draws them arbitrarily. there are also lines that made sense several years ago but dont make any sense anymore.

the example of sati you brought up is one instance where the society was wrong. there are more. like the system we had in some parts of india that the only time a woman stepped out of her house was when she travelled to her husbands home from her father's home. or one may look at the limits that were present about women not being allowed to work. or women not being allowed to inherit property

we have several examples of lines drawn by societies that didnt make sense and were eventually discarded. who is to say that there are no more such lines that need to be discarded?

 

[Zarvan]

we clearly consider sati wrong. people back then believed otherwise. but they questioned it and got rid of it. so using the very example you brought up, i see no problem in questioning the social/cultural/religious practices.

if my sister, mother, wife or daughter decides to walk around naked, i would let them. their choice to do as they wish. unless ofcourse we are visiting some excessively cold place

society draws several lines and it draws them arbitrarily. there are also lines that made sense several years ago but dont make any sense anymore.

the example of sati you brought up is one instance where the society was wrong. there are more. like the system we had in some parts of india that the only time a woman stepped out of her house was when she travelled to her husbands home from her father's home. or one may look at the limits that were present about women not being allowed to work. or women not being allowed to inherit property

we have several examples of lines drawn by societies that didnt make sense and were eventually discarded. who is to say that there are no more such lines that need to be discarded?

Sir the clear orders of Quran and Sunnah can't discarded at all

 

[Moorkh]

Rape & Incest are non existent in true Islamic states. That's the whole idea of proper cover (Hijaab & other body covering clothing) for women, to attract respect instead of lust.

yes and poverty and exploitation is not present in a true socialist/communist society. alas neither a true communist society exists nor does a true islamic one

Women body attracts men that is natural so fault is not men in this case GOD has ordered women to cover up than expose if she is not covering herself up it is her fault

let me put it this way. women attract men and men attract women. it is but natural (and in a way necessary for a species to survive). does mere attraction do any harm?

harm comes when idiots dont control themselves. they do evil deeds and then blame the women for 'acting provocatively' or dressing inappropriately. a man is responsible for his actions. his hands were not forced by anyone but himself and is wholly to blame for what he does.

dont blame women for the faults in the men.

 

[Mav3rick]

Interesting then as to why there isnt any ground in religion at all..
After all, with people running around defining grounds on the excuse of Shirk,Bidah and Kufr.. and drawing circles to throw the rest out.. that we still dream the foolish idea of an Ummah.

Religious modesty is also open to interpretation..
there is the shuttlecock and there is the simple scarf.... both meet the standard.. only the level of cultural input and ignorance is different.

Well, lets start off with the basics....the bare minimum. Quran and Sunnah, which sunnah....those Sunnah that are accepted by all those who were tasked with their compilation.

 

[Mav3rick]

All this is something that seems to have evolved down the centuries as Islam has started to look inward instead of forward.

The "minimum requirements set out by the Holy Quran (word of Allah)" are very clear per the written word from what I see.

Extend your head cover over your bossom. - The odhni, dupatta, is regularly worn over the bossom by both Hindu and Muslim women. So is the pallu of the sari btw.

Transparency is the choice of the woman. If she is wearing something transparent, then what does that tell you about "free choice" regarding having to cover that up?

Or turning ones gaze for example. Does the burqa equally then not allow the woman to look outward where she pleases but not the vice versa?

Cover/protect ones ornaments. Sage advice. I would do the same if I were to pay through my backside in buying those!

Draw ones outergarments around you. As long as you are not walking around in your under garments, your outer garments are around you. No issue there.

Everything else is subjective interpretation.

Dupatta if worn properly (to cover hair and chest) along with loose clothes that do not complement the curves/figure of a woman would satisfy the rules set out by Islam but only as long as they are not transparent. What's the purpose of wearing clothes if they are transparent?

the purpose of clothing was initially just to help humans adapt to their surroundings, so they wore furs to keep themselves warm and leather armor to protect themselves in battle. eventually clothing also took on the role of beautifying a person. making the person look more presentable and bring out the person's beauty.

clothing was never meant to completely hide the physical aspect of the person.

if seeing a woman in a bikini forces 'impure' thoughts on a man, then the fault lies with the man. and even when the thoughts appear, the onus is on the man to keep himself in check. a person who blames a woman for his impure thughts is just being dishonest.

for they men who get impure thoughts because of bikinis, no clothing will actually work. they will imagine hte woman in a bikini anyways. dont try to blame the women for the faults of perverted men.

You mean to say:

1) That our clothing is only meant to serve as a weather resistance covering.
2) Sexual thoughts awakened in a man because of improper dress of a woman means something wrong with the man.

Well, to point 1 my answer is "Dude......you are so lost" and to the second point my answer is "Fault actually lies in any man who does not get ideas when he looks at a woman in bikini or other revealing clothes as this is our most primal, most basic instinct or animal instinct that any 'normal' man is born with"

we clearly consider sati wrong. people back then believed otherwise. but they questioned it and got rid of it. so using the very example you brought up, i see no problem in questioning the social/cultural/religious practices.

if my sister, mother, wife or daughter decides to walk around naked, i would let them. their choice to do as they wish. unless ofcourse we are visiting some excessively cold place

society draws several lines and it draws them arbitrarily. there are also lines that made sense several years ago but dont make any sense anymore.

the example of sati you brought up is one instance where the society was wrong. there are more. like the system we had in some parts of india that the only time a woman stepped out of her house was when she travelled to her husbands home from her father's home. or one may look at the limits that were present about women not being allowed to work. or women not being allowed to inherit property

we have several examples of lines drawn by societies that didnt make sense and were eventually discarded. who is to say that there are no more such lines that need to be discarded?

The message you have posted in regards to dress code and freedom of choice is pur BS, it's impractical and unacceptable as a response. If this is the path of your discussion then I cannot continue.

yes and poverty and exploitation is not present in a true socialist/communist society. alas neither a true communist society exists nor does a true islamic one

Correct, but this is why we argue, because we want a true Islamic Society.

let me put it this way. women attract men and men attract women. it is but natural (and in a way necessary for a species to survive). does mere attraction do any harm?

harm comes when idiots dont control themselves. they do evil deeds and then blame the women for 'acting provocatively' or dressing inappropriately. a man is responsible for his actions. his hands were not forced by anyone but himself and is wholly to blame for what he does.

dont blame women for the faults in the men.

What exactly do you mean by 'evil' here?

 

[vsdoc]

Dupatta if worn properly (to cover hair and chest) along with loose clothes that do not complement the curves/figure of a woman would satisfy the rules set out by Islam but only as long as they are not transparent. What's the purpose of wearing clothes if they are transparent?

But there is nothing in the Quran on offer here that mentions anything about the hair. I keep asking, where is the specific reference to hair as the written word? Nobody seems to have that answer.

The purpose of wearing transparent clothes is obvious. Or it could well also be to do with the weather and the material needed. Practical reasons. And again when you come to the religious, there does not seem to be anything in the Quran about the material and thickness to be used if you go by the written word.

Either way if a woman should decide to wear transparent clothes, its her free choice, and she's doing it for a reason. Asking her to then cover up, is pressure. Be it moral or religious. If she wanted to wear the burqa in the first place, she wuld not be donning transparent garments either. Because per the Quran, even amongst the males allowed to look at her without one, its not just the husband. Get my point?

 

[Mav3rick]

But there is nothing in the Quran on offer here that mentions anything about the hair. I keep asking, where is the specific reference to hair as the written word? Nobody seems to have that answer.

The purpose of wearing transparent clothes is obvious. Or it could well also be to do with the weather and the material needed. Practical reasons. And again when you come to the religious, there does not seem to be anything in the Quran about the material and thickness to be used if you go by the written word.

Either way if a woman should decide to wear transparent clothes, its her free choice, and she's doing it for a reason. Asking her to then cover up, is pressure. Be it moral or religious. If she wanted to wear the burqa in the first place, she wuld not be donning transparent garments either. Because per the Quran, even amongst the males allowed to look at her without one, its not just the husband. Get my point?

Do you know what Quran is? Do you know how much information there is in that book? Do you expect me to go and look for that information just to please you when you should be doing the act instead of asking me. But you are not sincere in your search, you would rather challenge everything then look for it.

As for your comment on the choice being free in your ideal world for women to wear transparent clothes if they so wished.....well I wish the same for many many women out there but that is the immoral me. If we start removing restrictions then why have any restrictions at all? Why have any restriction on anything? But if that is your opinion then it is so because of your lack of faith in a supreme diety, a God.

You may be relieved of all sins and acts of sins if the belief on God is non existent. But if you had any belief, you would obey without question.

 

[VCheng]

.......... But if you had any belief, you would obey without question.

That Sir, is a very dangerous proposition for believers and non-believers alike.

 

[Last Hope]

Stop this discussion. It is one of the topics banned on PDF. And it is prone to punishments.

But if it were the other way around, I would have surely participated on why Hijab is compulsory on all women in Islam.
There are many points, many Hadiths/Sunnah/Quranic verses to emphasize on it.

 

[vsdoc]

Do you know what Quran is? Do you know how much information there is in that book? Do you expect me to go and look for that information just to please you when you should be doing the act instead of asking me. But you are not sincere in your search, you would rather challenge everything then look for it.

As for your comment on the choice being free in your ideal world for women to wear transparent clothes if they so wished.....well I wish the same for many many women out there but that is the immoral me. If we start removing restrictions then why have any restrictions at all? Why have any restriction on anything? But if that is your opinion then it is so because of your lack of faith in a supreme diety, a God.

You may be relieved of all sins and acts of sins if the belief on God is non existent. But if you had any belief, you would obey without question.

My knowledge of the Quran is from random Google searches between office work man. I am not Muslim. You are. Do you know what the Quran says? If so, tell me. If you do not wish to, or feel that I am not sincere in my discourse, do not engage. Either way is fine by me.

All I can see is a text with the written word, with a thousand different views and interpretations depending on one's agenda and point of view.

Or of extending from the Quran to the Sunnah and then the Hadith and then something else as it suits. I guess a lot of the strife in Islam is also linked to interpretations of the same from within Islam and the global Muslim community - is it not?

Taken in its purest form, any person with knowledge of Arabic should be able to translate and have a debate. Why not? What is there to hide? As I do not, I have to depend on you guys who do, or trawl the net.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Al Huda has brain washed almost every single female in my family & the only thing they know about is praying & hadith.Its like they have forgotten their social life and are out to recite a verse for freaking thing they do.From eating down to washroom, they have a verse for everything

plus there is a book by Sadaf Ahmad, Transforming Faith: The Story of Al-Huda and Islamic Revivalism Among Urban Pakistani Women. Its a good read for anyone interested