New trick of the old monk

[Flintlock]

Well, we are just undertaking mass population reduction as the "permanent solution", no go crying before USA and EU. Maybe one day we will do the same thing in New Delhi or just nuke the **** out of it, but there's nothing you can do about it, get it?

Go China!!

 

[ejaz007]

Talks with China on Tibet unrest to resume, Dalai Lama says

The Dalai Lama said Thursday that talks with China's government on resolving unrest in Tibet might resume next month, and he urged his supporters not to cause trouble when the Olympic torch is in the Himalayan territory.

The exiled Tibetan leader said he supports China's stated desire for a stable and harmonious society, but he also renewed his call for Beijing to grant Tibet meaningful autonomy.

"Stability, unity must come from the heart, not a gun," the Dalai Lama told a news conference in Sydney. "And harmonious society must come from ... trust. Give Tibetans meaningful autonomy; that will satisfy Tibetans."

Representatives of the Tibetan government-in-exile met with Chinese officials in early May for informal talks on how to move beyond the unrest in the region, which flared in March into violence that killed at least 22 people.

The clashes fueled anger at China's rule in Tibet, and the Olympic torch relay became a focus of Tibetan pro-independence protests in Paris, London and other cities that threatened to cast a shadow over the Beijing games in August.

The Chinese government blames the Dalai Lama for the unrest, saying it was part of a campaign to split Tibet from the rest of China. The Dalai Lama has denied those charges, saying he wants meaningful autonomy for the Tibetan people under China's rule, not independence.

He said plans for a formal round of talks between his envoys and Beijing's had been postponed because of China's disastrous May 12 earthquake, which killed almost 70,000 people.

"This (is) not a pullout, simply this is a postponement," the Dalai Lama said. He said the meeting would take place "maybe next month."

The Dalai Lama also reiterated his call for his supporters not to target the Beijing Olympics or the torch.

"We have fully supported the Olympic Games right from the beginning. The torch is part of that," he said. "Over 1 billion Chinese brothers and sisters feel really proud of that. We must respect that. Therefore, we should not disturb that."

He said he did not think there will be "any trouble" when the torch relay is in Tibet.

The torch, currently threading its way through China, will be used to officially launch the Olympics in Beijing on Aug. 8. The relay is due in Tibet on June 19-21.

China says it has ruled Tibet for centuries, although many Tibetans say their homeland was essentially an independent state for most of that time. Chinese Communist troops occupied Tibet in 1951.

The March unrest was the most widespread and sustained action against Beijing's rule in decades, focusing attention on accusations that Chinese policies in the region are eroding its traditional Buddhist culture and mainly benefit Chinese who moved there since the occupation.

China says 22 people died in the March violence in Tibet's capital of Lhasa, while overseas Tibet supporters say many times that number have been killed in protests and the ensuing security crackdown across Tibetan regions of western China.

The Dalai Lama is in Sydney to deliver a series of meditation lectures.

Talks with China on Tibet unrest to resume, Dalai Lama says - Pravda.Ru

Found this article on the net.
Interesting thing is that Dalai Lama wishes to talk with Chinese government while you people wish to nuke out each other for Tibet.
By the way Stealth Assasin does India have second strike ability against China.

 

[vish]

Well, we are just undertaking mass population reduction as the "permanent solution", no go crying before USA and EU. Maybe one day we will do the same thing in New Delhi or just nuke the **** out of it, but there's nothing you can do about it, get it?

I just wish everybody was like you.

 

[Jliu]

Talks with China on Tibet unrest to resume, Dalai Lama says

The Dalai Lama said Thursday that talks with China's government on resolving unrest in Tibet might resume next month, and he urged his supporters not to cause trouble when the Olympic torch is in the Himalayan territory.

The exiled Tibetan leader said he supports China's stated desire for a stable and harmonious society, but he also renewed his call for Beijing to grant Tibet meaningful autonomy.

"Stability, unity must come from the heart, not a gun," the Dalai Lama told a news conference in Sydney. "And harmonious society must come from ... trust. Give Tibetans meaningful autonomy; that will satisfy Tibetans."

Representatives of the Tibetan government-in-exile met with Chinese officials in early May for informal talks on how to move beyond the unrest in the region, which flared in March into violence that killed at least 22 people.

The clashes fueled anger at China's rule in Tibet, and the Olympic torch relay became a focus of Tibetan pro-independence protests in Paris, London and other cities that threatened to cast a shadow over the Beijing games in August.

The Chinese government blames the Dalai Lama for the unrest, saying it was part of a campaign to split Tibet from the rest of China. The Dalai Lama has denied those charges, saying he wants meaningful autonomy for the Tibetan people under China's rule, not independence.

He said plans for a formal round of talks between his envoys and Beijing's had been postponed because of China's disastrous May 12 earthquake, which killed almost 70,000 people.

"This (is) not a pullout, simply this is a postponement," the Dalai Lama said. He said the meeting would take place "maybe next month."

The Dalai Lama also reiterated his call for his supporters not to target the Beijing Olympics or the torch.

"We have fully supported the Olympic Games right from the beginning. The torch is part of that," he said. "Over 1 billion Chinese brothers and sisters feel really proud of that. We must respect that. Therefore, we should not disturb that."

He said he did not think there will be "any trouble" when the torch relay is in Tibet.

The torch, currently threading its way through China, will be used to officially launch the Olympics in Beijing on Aug. 8. The relay is due in Tibet on June 19-21.

China says it has ruled Tibet for centuries, although many Tibetans say their homeland was essentially an independent state for most of that time. Chinese Communist troops occupied Tibet in 1951.

The March unrest was the most widespread and sustained action against Beijing's rule in decades, focusing attention on accusations that Chinese policies in the region are eroding its traditional Buddhist culture and mainly benefit Chinese who moved there since the occupation.

China says 22 people died in the March violence in Tibet's capital of Lhasa, while overseas Tibet supporters say many times that number have been killed in protests and the ensuing security crackdown across Tibetan regions of western China.

The Dalai Lama is in Sydney to deliver a series of meditation lectures.

Talks with China on Tibet unrest to resume, Dalai Lama says - Pravda.Ru

Found this article on the net.
Interesting thing is that Dalai Lama wishes to talk with Chinese government while you people wish to nuke out each other for Tibet.
By the way Stealth Assasin does India have second strike ability against China.

This is an exercise in futility and I do wonder if the Dalai Lama realises the Chinese are merely playing him with their vacuous "negotiations" and "peace talks" until he passes from the scene. The PRC will never allow Tibet to have any form of autonomy that the CCP Central Commission in Beijing cannot control and manipulate.

The China of today is merely a continuation of 2000 years of the dynastic cycle with a 'communist' veneer with the God-Emperors being replaced by the Politburo or what we China watchers call a "democracy of twelve". In order to predict their behaviour one may simply look at 2000 years of Chinese history and in turn observe the fate of those who dared to stand up to Chinese expansionism. The Chinese national psyche seeks only gain (whether at the expense of others or not) and respects only only one common universal theme-strength. In their eyes the Dalai Lama poses a percieved threat to their absolute control and is 'weak' due to his emphasis on solely non-violent means, "abject surrender" as Xinhua defines it.

At present this is correct as while non violence Gandhi-style tactics struck a mortal blow to British rule in India it will not work for China simply because the British (and the West) maintain an ingrained respect for the individual while China and most of Asia only emphasise the group and de-emphasise the individual and their rights. As one Chinese Legalist philosopher put it, "the people are only straw dogs" [at the every whim of the Emperor]. Inevitably, most resistance movements in the East will only succeed through an effective equilbrium of resistance, political astuteness and 'soft power' among the people. Witness the only two powers in Asia that have broken free of Chinese hegemony, Korea (pre-1951) and Vietnam. Both had epic conflicts with the occupying power-buying time for an effective cultural base to develop and 'break free' of China-avoiding the fate of the Mongolians of Inner Mongolia and the Manchurians (who were foolish enough to invade China without developing a strong cultural base and being assimilated themselves).

If the Dalai Lama truly wishes to prevent the complete assimilation of his homeland he had better start taking a closer look at Hizballah-the most successful example of an integrated 'resistance' movement.

 

[gpit]

21st Century Buddhist Dictator
The Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama, right now you are removing the Tibetan Shugden worshippers
from the Buddhist community saying that Shugden worshippers are not Buddhist
because they worship an evil spirit—Shugden, and at the same time you are
preparing to remove the Western Shugden worshippers from the Buddhist community
for the same reasons. Through your religious discrimination and extreme
view, you have already expelled thousands of Tibetan Shugden practitioners from
the Tibetan society. Not satisfied with this, you are now collecting signatures from
people in the West and the East in which they state that they abandon Shugden
worship and that they will not support materially or spiritually anyone who does
practice Shugden worship.

We understand that your aim in collecting these signatures is simply to protect
your reputation—you want to blame the people for your breaking the law. Dalai
Lama, you are a very professional liar. Your actions of Deity discrimination are
directly against the constitution of the Indian Government, which means you are
breaking Indian law. This is your fault alone; not the people’s fault. You should
not blame others for your breaking the law. Many people are giving their signatures
stating they abandon Shugden worship ONLY because they are afraid of
your punishment if they do not. There are clear reports in the newspapers about
these punishments. Others sign because they are your friends who are trying to
protect your reputation.

In our report on 29th February 2008, we asked you to show your evidence
to prove that Shugden is an evil spirit: ‘If you are not telling lies and you have
valid evidence to support your actions you should show such evidence publicly,
and you should do this yourself not through your people who until now you have
hidden behind, having them perform your dirty work’. You received a copy of our
previous report and have not replied. Your silence proves that you have no valid
evidence and that you have lied.

Since 1996, you have continually said publicly that Shugden practice is harming
your life and Tibetan independence. Many people who have blind faith in
you believe what you say without investigating the actual truth. Consequently,
they are extremely angry with Shugden practitioners and try to remove them from
their society by many different means such as humiliation, provocation, intimidation,
threatening, ostracism, removing jobs and positions, denying services,
spreading false rumours, lies, manipulation, not allowing others to have material
or spiritual relationship with them, not giving the monks food in their monasteries,
not allowing the monks to attend classes and services at their monasteries, and
forcing them to sign a promise that they will abandon the worship of the Deity
Shugden.

Through your actions of this lie, all Tibetans throughout the world are divided
into two groups: 1) those who believe what you say concerning Dorje Shugden
and who are consequently angry with Dorje Shugden practitioners, and 2) those
who do not believe what you say concerning Dorje Shugden and are experiencing
ostracism and great suffering and sorrow. This situation pervades everywhere in
the East and in the West.

The entire Tibetan community have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and
are experiencing a very dangerous situation. The source of all these problems is
you. Through your negative policies, the Kagyupas are divided into two groups,
and they have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and their common spiritual
activities. Gelugpas are also divided into two groups 1) those who follow your view
believing that Shugden is an evil spirit, and 2) those who believe that Shugden is a
Wisdom Buddha, and have subsequently lost their trust, peace and harmony, and
their common spiritual activities and live in a dangerous situation. The source of
all these problems is you.

Until now you have repeatedly said that you are not seeking Tibetan independence
and that you have not done anything to promote Tibetan independence, yet
now you organise demonstrations against China! You are enjoying life in your luxurious
palace while the poor Tibetan people are experiencing great suffering and
danger. Your actions have caused all the Tibetans who live in Tibet to have a very
difficult life because you have destroyed their internal trust, peace and harmony.

As soon as you arrived to India as a refugee you made a plan to transform the
four traditions of Tibetan Buddhism—Nyngma, Sakya, Kagyu and Gelug—into
one single tradition called Rigme (Non Lineage) tradition. This was your method
to destroy the pure lineages of the Nyngma, Sakya, Kagyu and Gelug and make
you alone the head of all of them by establishing a new tradition. In this way you
now have complete power and control of everything at a spiritual, political and
material level.

At that time, the Tso Kha Chusum (“Thirteen Groups of Tibetans”) were
against your plan and because of this for many years the Tibetan community lost
their harmony and peace. Finally, the leader of the Tso Kha Chusum, Gungthang
Tsultrim, was murdered by a shotgun. Tibetan people believe that Gungthang
Tsultrim was killed by people working for you. Later, some other important
members of the Tso Kha Chusum suddenly died, and people believed your organizations
created the conditions for their death. It is said that you have a secret
organization in New Delhi, led by your brother whose function is to destroy or
kill anyone who opposes your plan.

According to some sources, you were born in a Muslim family. When you
were a child who did not know anything, some ignorant Tibetans acting as representatives
of the Tibetan Government chose that boy as the reincarnation of the
Tibetan Dalai Lama. Since that time, that boy wore saffron robes, and the local
people jokingly nicknamed you as ´The Saffron Robed Muslim´. In this way, you
received the position of the Tibetan Dalai Lama. Because of this, many people
now keep your photograph on their shrines and worship you.

You have received a higher education in Buddhism from your kind teacher
Trijang Rinpoche. However, the sad situation is that after you arrived to India
your behaviour changed. You were continually against the intention of your Root
Guru, Trijang Rinpoche, who is the lineage holder of Je Tsonghapa´s doctrine.
You strived strongly to destroy Trijang Rinpoche´s spiritual tradition, which is the
pure tradition of Je Tsongkhapa´s doctrine.

Since 1996, you have regarded Trijang Rinpoche´s followers as your enemies
and you are now giving orders to the ordinary people and monasteries to expel
them from their society. Following your views and your orders, many people
believe that Trijang Rinpoche´s followers who practise Dorje Shugden are their
enemies.

In both India and Tibet, many Shugden temples, shrines, statues, paintings
and texts have been unlawfully destroyed, and many monks have been expelled
from their monasteries. Following your orders, the authorities of the monasteries
are continually making efforts to expel the monks who have devotion for Trijang
Rinpoche and who practise Dorje Shugden. In this way, you have caused millions
of people great suffering and sorrow.

All these horrible situations have developed through the power of your evil
actions. This is our valid evidence to prove that you are not Buddhist. Because of
this, we also believe that you are the saffron robed Muslim.

Throughout your life you have pretended to be a Buddhist holy being giving
Buddhist teachings that you have stolen from Trijang Rinpoche. By doing this,
you have cheated people throughout the world. In summary, it is clear that your
real nature is cruel and very evil.

http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/files/tibetan_situation.pdf

 

[gpit]

Letter to the Dalai Lama of Tibet
12th April 2008

To the Dalai Lama of Tibet,

We the Western Shugden Society ask you to accomplish four things:

1. To give freedom to practice Dorje Shugden to whoever wishes to rely
upon this Deity.
2. To stop completely the discrimination between Shugden people and
non-Shugden practitioners.
3. To allow all Shugden monks and nuns who have been expelled from
their monasteries and nunneries to return to their monasteries and nunneries
where they should receive the same material and spiritual rights
as the non-Shugden practitioners.
4. That you tell in writing to the Tibetan community throughout the
world that they should practically apply the above three points.

Do you accept these four points? We require your answer by the 22 April 2008,
signed and delivered by registered post to:

Western Shugden Society
c/o Dorje Shugden Devotees Society,
House No 105, Old Tibetan Camp, Majnu Ka Tilla, Delhi-54

With a copy of your letter sent to the following email address:
western_shugden_society@live.com

If we do not receive your answer by 22 April 2008, we will regard that you have
not accepted.

The Western Shugden Society

cc Kashag Secretary, Parliamentary Secretary (Tibetan Parliament-in-exile),
Dept. of Religion & Culture (Central Tibetan Administration), Assistant Commissioner
(Representative for Tibetans)

http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/files/tibetan_situation.pdf

 

[vish]

gpit:

I must inform you that the "Western Shugden Society" has quiet a reputation.

Thanks for posting the above two posts.

Regards;
Vishal Bhatia

 

[gpit]

"Democratic" Dalai Lama is a dictator himself.

Dorje Shugden controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...

According to the Western Shugden Society and Dorje Shugden Devotees Charitable Trust in India[4], on the orders of the Dalai Lama the ban was and continues to be enforced by the Tibetan Government in Exile and all other Tibetan Exile associations such as the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Tibetan Women’s Association:[5] Specifically:

• Monks and nuns are forbidden to do the practice and are unconstitutionally expelled from their monasteries and nunneries if they do not comply

• Thousands of Shugden practitioners among the Tibetan lay people are being forced to abandon the practice or lose the support of their government and face orchestrated public humiliation and intimidation

• People who refuse to renounce the practice are losing their jobs, their children are being expelled from schools, and their travel papers, which require prior authorization from the Tibetan Government in Exile, are not being endorsed

• Statues have been smashed, temples destroyed, books burned, practitioner’s houses attacked, and even death threats issued

In a recent article (June 2008), Michael Backman says:[6] "Shugden supporters claim that the Dalai Lama took advantage of the worldwide groundswell of support that accompanied the Olympic torch protests earlier this year to move against them. They claim that on his orders hundreds of pro-Shugden monks were expelled from Tibetan Buddhist monasteries, mostly in India, leaving them without financial support and shelter. They now argue it is the Dalai Lama who is breaching human rights when it comes to freedom of worship."

...

 

[vish]

"Democratic" Dalai Lama is a dictator himself.

Dorje Shugden controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...

According to the Western Shugden Society and Dorje Shugden Devotees Charitable Trust in India[4], on the orders of the Dalai Lama the ban was and continues to be enforced by the Tibetan Government in Exile and all other Tibetan Exile associations such as the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Tibetan Women’s Association:[5] Specifically:

• Monks and nuns are forbidden to do the practice and are unconstitutionally expelled from their monasteries and nunneries if they do not comply

• Thousands of Shugden practitioners among the Tibetan lay people are being forced to abandon the practice or lose the support of their government and face orchestrated public humiliation and intimidation

• People who refuse to renounce the practice are losing their jobs, their children are being expelled from schools, and their travel papers, which require prior authorization from the Tibetan Government in Exile, are not being endorsed

• Statues have been smashed, temples destroyed, books burned, practitioner’s houses attacked, and even death threats issued

In a recent article (June 2008), Michael Backman says:[6] "Shugden supporters claim that the Dalai Lama took advantage of the worldwide groundswell of support that accompanied the Olympic torch protests earlier this year to move against them. They claim that on his orders hundreds of pro-Shugden monks were expelled from Tibetan Buddhist monasteries, mostly in India, leaving them without financial support and shelter. They now argue it is the Dalai Lama who is breaching human rights when it comes to freedom of worship."

...

Care to explain what is your intent with the above post?

 

[Flintlock]

Dalai Lama disapproves of a sect in Buddhism, which has led to them being ostracized from the mainstream Buddhist community.

What gpit is trying to do is present this as religious cleansing and show the Dalai Lama as some sort of fundamentalist.

 

[vish]

Dalai Lama disapproves of a sect in Buddhism, which has led to them being ostracized from the mainstream Buddhist community.

What gpit is trying to do is present this as religious cleansing and show the Dalai Lama as some sort of fundamentalist.

I'm aware of that and (correct me if I'm wrong) the Dalai Lama has given adequate reasoning as to why he disaproves of that sect.

He simply stated his opinion.

 

[Flintlock]

I'm aware of that and (correct me if I'm wrong) the Dalai Lama has given adequate reasoning as to why he disaproves of that sect.

He simply stated his opinion.

Whatever the reasons are, religious or political, it doesn't make him a fundamentalist.

His goal has been to unite all the Buddhists under one platform to give them a greater voice, which means that he has been encouraging common practices and discouraging certain offshoots - a feeble attempt at playing politics which is getting him nowhere.

The fact is that Gandhian tactics don't work on a Communist dictatorship with no conscience and no concept of individual rights.

 

[vish]

Whatever the reasons are, religious or political, it doesn't make him a fundamentalist.

This I thoroughly agree with; the Dalai Lama is not a fundamentalist.

His goal has been to unite all the Buddhists under one platform to give them a greater voice, which means that he has been encouraging common practices and discouraging certain offshoots - a feeble attempt at playing politics which is getting him nowhere.

It is yet to be seen whether this politics is a result of his noble intentions or something else is at play here.

But one canot deny, by and large, the Dalai Lama is rightly respected.

The fact is that Gandhian tactics don't work on a Communist dictatorship with no conscience and no concept of individual rights.

To a certain extent, yes this is true. But besides negotiating, what other option does he have? He has long stated that an independent Tibet is not possible; he is simply seeking cultural and religious freedom and a certain degree of autonomy.

Infact, his Gandhian (which I think are very powerful) ways have ensured the CCP is globally seen as a tyrant.

 

[Flintlock]

This I thoroughly agree with; the Dalai Lama is not a fundamentalist.

It is yet to be seen whether this politics is a result of his noble intentions or something else is at play here.

As I said, its part of his attempt to unite buddhists under one voice.

Some people may call it his selfish quest for power.

IT depends on whose side you are on.

Personally, I think his ambitions are far from personal.

To a certain extent, yes this is true. But besides negotiating, what other option does he have? He has long stated that an independent Tibet is not possible; he is simply seeking cultural and religious freedom and a certain degree of autonomy.

Considering his power over Tibetan mnds, he could have easily organized a mass revolt against the Chinese regime with AK47s et all.

It would not have won him much respect, but it would have been more effective than trying to persuade a regime which doesn't believe in persuasion.

Infact, his Gandhian (which I think are very powerful) ways have ensured the CCP is globally seen as a tyrant.

It might be bad for the PR of the PRC, but it does zilch to change the ground realities.

 

[gpit]

Vish,

You can keep your own opinion about Western Shugden Society.

But, Dalai Lama has no rights to oppress the believers.

The bottom line is, Dalai Lama is no saint. If he is in power, he’ll probably be worse than CPC, as judged by his words and deeds!

BTW, I’d like to highly suggest you resolutely banish your selective blindness, for the link(s) are clearly in my posts.