New trick of the old monk

[kvLin]

Tawang is part of India: Dalai Lama -India-The Times of India

NEW DELHI: For the first-time, Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama has said that Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh, a territory that's still claimed by China, is part of India.

Acknowledging the validity of the MacMohan Line as per the 1914 Simla Agreement in an interview to Navbharat Times , he said that Arunchal Pradesh was a part of India under the agreement signed by Tibetan and British representatives.

In 2003, while touring Tawang, the Dalai Lama had been asked to comment on the issue, but had refused to give a direct answer, saying that Arunachal was actually part of Tibet. China doesn't recognize the MacMohan Line and claims that Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh are part of its territory.

The statement is bound to impact the India-China dialogue, as Beijing has already stated that if Tawang is handed to it, it will rescind claim on the rest of Arunachal Pradesh. The Chinese proposal is strategically unacceptable to India, as Tawang is close not just to the northeastern states but also to Bhutan. Tawang is also a key Buddhist pilgrimage site as it was the birthplace of the sixth Dalai Lama.

Commenting on the largescale resettlement of Hans in Tibet, the Tibetan leader said two-third of Lhasa's population is now Han, but Tibetans are still a majority in the region. He also expressed astonishment at the fact that the Chinese government disputes his claims on his country, adding, "The entire world knows we do not want separation from China. We only want to retain our cutural and spiritual identity. Tibet must be recognized as a special territory, that is all we ask."

I guess the Dalai Lama must be lonesome over recent nights coz all China involved news coverage has concentrated in positive way onto the Wenchuan earthquake and relieving efforts by the Chinese people,the government and the whole international community, which seems to make the Free Tibet activities a series of frustration.

Few days ago, Indian police arrested a protesting group of exiled Tibetans including 6 heads of five Free Tibet groups who had organized 300 people to hoof it northward to the Sino-indu border, in call of a "Walking back to Tibet" movement as shown below.


The Dalai Lama, though has for several times drawn the line between himself and the violent Free Tibet roiters, is apparently eager to maintain the breathing space for the latter.

Hereby we need to give our sincere thanks to India coz those people are really trouble makers to both China and the discreetly developing Sino-Indu relationship. the Arunachal Pradesh was established in 1987 by India's massive immigrations of Hindus, which is never recognized by China from the north side. and for over 50 years the Tawang issue has posed a chief obstacle of the Sino-Indu relationship. only wits and time count in the whole complex history and status quo.

Generally, Indians,along with their government, are quite confient about their sovereignty in Arunachal Pradesh, which makes the Dalai Lama's support more like a spone of spare salt adding to the well pickled bacon. although he's fully aware that the Arunachal Pradesh used to be an unquestionable Tibetan area dominated by Kaggu,one of the oldest sects of Tibetan Buddhism as well as a chief rival of his Gulug,and Tawang is even the birth place of the sixth Dalai Lama, he may have to make up to the Indian government by risking acute conflicts from inside the Tibetan Buddhism.

By giving his comments on Tawang, The Dalai Lama is neigher on behalf of China, nor of the international community. to say the least, he's even NOT really a spiritual leader of all Tibetans, instead he is merely a leader of yellow hat people who has adopted Gulug, the former regnal religionary sect which has been suppressing other sects (e.g. Kaggu and Saga) for hundreds of years. Two weeks ago nearly one hundred Tibetans (of a small sect) protested against the Dalai Lama in Brandenburg, Germany for being cast away from freedom of religion. I believe this episode would have added quite a few to the complex circumstance of Tibetan Buddhism, rather than simply supprised those simplehearted western people.

 

[Always Neutral]

I guess the Dalai Lama must be lonesome over recent nights coz all China involved news coverage has concentrated in positive way onto the Wenchuan earthquake and relieving efforts by the Chinese people,their government and the whole international community, which seems to make the Free Tibet activities a series of frustration.

Few days ago, Indian police arrested a protesting group of exiled Tibetans including 6 heads of five Free Tibet groups who had organized 300 people to hoof it northward to the Sino-indu border, in call of a "Walking back to Tibet" movement as shown below.


The Dalai Lama, though has for several times drawn the line between himself and the violent Free Tibet roiters, is apparently eager to maintain the breathing space for the latter.

Hereby we need to give our sincere thanks to India coz those people are really trouble makers to both China and the discreetly developing Sino-Indu relationship. the Arunachal Pradesh was established in 1987 by India's massive immigrations of Hindus, which is never recognized by China from the north side. and for over 50 years the Tawang issue has posed a chief obstacle of the Sino-Indu relationship. only wits and time count in the whole complex history and status quo.

Generally, Indians,along with their government, are quite confient about their sovereignty in Arunachal Pradesh, which makes the Dalai Lama's support more like a spone of spare salt adding to the well pickled bacon. although he's fully aware that the Arunachal Pradesh used to be an unquestionable Tibetan area dominated by Kaggu,one of the oldest sect of Tibetan Buddhism as well as a chief rival of his Gulug,and Tawang is even the birth place of the sixth Dalai Lama, he may have to make up to the Indian government risking acute conflicts from inside the Tibetan Buddhism.

by give his supporting comments on Tawang, The Dalai Lama is neigher on behalf of China, nor of the international community. to say the least, he's even NOT really a spiritual leader of all Tibetans, instead he is merely a leader of yellow hat people who has adopted Gulug, the former regnal religionary sect which has been suppressing other sects (e.g. Kaggu and Saga) for hundreds of years. Two weeks ago nearly one hundred Tibetans (of a small sect) protested against the Dalai Lama in Brandenburg, Germany for being cast away from freedom of religion. I believe this episode would have added quite a few to the complex circumstance of Tibetan Buddhism, rather than simply supprised those simplehearted western people.

Dear Kv,

You maybe right or wrong but why not allow the international media unlimited access to Tibet and let the real story come out.

Its hard to believe that even in a imperfect democracy like India mass resetellement of only HINDOO population can be done. I would however believe such things are more likely to happen in China or Russia.

I assure you not one citizen of HK given the chance would have joined China when it got independence.

Regards

 

[vish]

I guess the Dalai Lama must be lonesome over recent nights coz all China involved news coverage has concentrated in positive way onto the Wenchuan earthquake and relieving efforts by the Chinese people,the government and the whole international community, which seems to make the Free Tibet activities a series of frustration.

I disagree with you; the Dalai Lama has made it perfectly clear that he does not seek an independent Tibet. All he asks for is more autonomy (cultural and religious).

Few days ago, Indian police arrested a protesting group of exiled Tibetans including 6 heads of five Free Tibet groups who had organized 300 people to hoof it northward to the Sino-indu border, in call of a "Walking back to Tibet" movement as shown below.

These protesters were arrested because they broke Indian laws; they were not arrested because they were protesting or they were Tibetan.

The Dalai Lama, though has for several times drawn the line between himself and the violent Free Tibet roiters, is apparently eager to maintain the breathing space for the latter.

It is the PRC's lack of transparency and rigidity of approach that has ensured that there are plenty of young Tibetans who are desperate, stupid, and frustrated enough to violent means. The riots in Tibet were not a part of the Free Tibet movement; these were local riots that were a result of PRC's, now universally recognized as failed, Tibet policies.

Hereby we need to give our sincere thanks to India coz those people are really trouble makers to both China and the discreetly developing Sino-Indu relationship.

In my country, which I'm proud to say is a democracy, the Tibetans can protest as much as they want as long as they abide by the rules of my country.

the Arunachal Pradesh was established in 1987 by India's massive immigrations of Hindus, which is never recognized by China from the north side. and for over 50 years the Tawang issue has posed a chief obstacle of the Sino-Indu relationship. only wits and time count in the whole complex history and status quo.

Finally, the cat is out of the bag. Tawang is not the only issue between India and China. Why forget Aksai Chin? PRC's "desire" over Sikkim is also omni-present. Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh are a part of India; get used to it. "Immigration by Hindus..."; just a question: do you think only Hindus live in India?

Generally, Indians,along with their government, are quite confient about their sovereignty in Arunachal Pradesh, which makes the Dalai Lama's support more like a spone of spare salt adding to the well pickled bacon. although he's fully aware that the Arunachal Pradesh used to be an unquestionable Tibetan area dominated by Kaggu,one of the oldest sects of Tibetan Buddhism as well as a chief rival of his Gulug,and Tawang is even the birth place of the sixth Dalai Lama, he may have to make up to the Indian government by risking acute conflicts from inside the Tibetan Buddhism.

The Dalai Lama is way more realpolitik than most. He has made it clear that he does not seek independence, all he seeks is more freedom. Wonder why does the CCP fear this word "freedom"?

We are not giving an inch of our land in Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh. Plus, who gave the PRC rights over Tibet and areas of Tibetan influence? The PRC invaded Tibet; how conveniently is that forgotten.

By giving his comments on Tawang, The Dalai Lama is neigher on behalf of China, nor of the international community. to say the least, he's even NOT really a spiritual leader of all Tibetans, instead he is merely a leader of yellow hat people who has adopted Gulug, the former regnal religionary sect which has been suppressing other sects (e.g. Kaggu and Saga) for hundreds of years. Two weeks ago nearly one hundred Tibetans (of a small sect) protested against the Dalai Lama in Brandenburg, Germany for being cast away from freedom of religion. I believe this episode would have added quite a few to the complex circumstance of Tibetan Buddhism, rather than simply supprised those simplehearted western people.

I do not know whether the Dalai Lama is the representative of all the Tibetans in the world; I do know that all Tibetans that I have come across do respect him a lot, whether they agree with his ideas and methods is a different story.

I do not know much about the history of Tibetan Buddhism; what I do know is that Tibet was invaded by the PRC and that Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh are and will be parts of India.

If indeed what you are saying is correct than please back it up by links. The fact that this "suppression" that you are talking about is so less known (at least that is what I think) does convince me to doubt your words.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Dear Kv,

You maybe right or wrong but why not allow the international media unlimited access to Tibet and let the real story come out.

Its hard to believe that even in a imperfect democracy like India mass resetellement of only HINDOO population can be done. I would however believe such things are more likely to happen in China or Russia.

I assure you not one citizen of HK given the chance would have joined China when it got independence.

Regards

Do you seriously think that their is not going to be any propaganda and bias reporting from Western media with regarding of Tibet issue?

 

[Always Neutral]

Do you seriously think that their is not going to be any propaganda and bias reporting from Western media with regarding of Tibet issue?

Why ? The papers are not controlled by the Govt. as in China. Some may be biased but most will use their brains and paint the right picture. When I say media I dont mean only western media it could be Al jazeera, Islamabad Times andbody under the sun.

Regards

 

[Awesome]

Dear Kv,

You maybe right or wrong but why not allow the international media unlimited access to Tibet and let the real story come out.

Its hard to believe that even in a imperfect democracy like India mass resetellement of only HINDOO population can be done. I would however believe such things are more likely to happen in China or Russia.

I assure you not one citizen of HK given the chance would have joined China when it got independence.

Regards

Dude, all of the western media is out to get China.

They're extremely yellow when it comes to China (no pun intended). International media can also be Pakistani, Arab, African right? Why not make a non-western media demand?

It's like saying "Enemy can you come here and say a few words on what sort of a person I am?" Enemy is going to lie.

 

[Always Neutral]

Dude, all of the western media is out to get China.

They're extremely yellow when it comes to China (no pun intended). International media can also be Pakistani, Arab, African right? Why not make a non-western media demand?

Please read my next post again. I said all media including Pakistani, Arabic and media from Timbaktu.

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

Yes we know the drill. The Chinese media is the only truthful media.

The rest of the world is composed of jealous china hating hacks.

 

[Awesome]

Please read my next post again. I said all media including Pakistani, Arabic and media from Timbaktu.

Regards

And when Pakistanis will report something in favor of China that would be declared BS... Even though we all know the massive uncontrollable nature of the Pakistani media.

C'mon India doesn't allow free access to Pakistani reporters in Kashmir. The others don't have it all rosy either. Every other journalist is "accompanied for their own safety". I don't see anyone bending over backwards for that cause?

I think strategically its good for the defending nation to not allow the media in conflict areas. Of course everyone in the outside can huff and puff all they want and with good cause but nothing good can come for the defending nation.

 

[gpit]

Dear Kv,

You maybe right or wrong but why not allow the international media unlimited access to Tibet and let the real story come out.

Its hard to believe that even in a imperfect democracy like India mass resetellement of only HINDOO population can be done. I would however believe such things are more likely to happen in China or Russia.

I assure you not one citizen of HK given the chance would have joined China when it got independence.

Regards

What to do with the accessibility of international media when disputing whether Tawang is part of China or India?

In addition, recent events fully demonstrate that most Western Media are biased against China.

Hey, even China is democratic, Westerns will say: your democracy sucks, boo...

 

[kvLin]

Dear Kv,

You maybe right or wrong but why not allow the international media unlimited access to Tibet and let the real story come out.

Its hard to believe that even in a imperfect democracy like India mass resetellement of only HINDOO population can be done. I would however believe such things are more likely to happen in China or Russia.

I assure you not one citizen of HK given the chance would have joined China when it got independence.

Regards

well I myself dislike the way our officals banishing international media in Tibetan areas during 314 and its aftereffect. but it doesn't alter my thoughts in above post.

as for hindus, hereby I didn't accurately refer to hindus, let it be indians and I expect your detailed account of the mass immigration around 1987.

regards,

 

[maniac]

I support the Chinese government. The Treaty of Westphalia has made it clear that sovereignty is a state's internal issue. Hence the government has the right to be selective about foreign media. Anyway, the government needs only to be responsible towards its citizens, that's all. Foreign media coverage in Tibet is none of Chinese' business and there is nothing wrong to ban it. The government has the right to reject any foreign media from reporting in China, just like you have the right to reject any visitor who wants to enter your house.

For those oversea Chinese who left the mainland for a long time, most of them agree that while Chinese state media is highly selective about domestic issues, it is rather neutral in international news though.

 

[kvLin]

Hi Vish, thanks for replying.

before answering your questions,let's make it clear that my post is not setup to solve any territorial dispute between India and China, nor does it argue in favor of China's media cover-ups. it's an analysis on the Dalai Lama comments.

I disagree with you; the Dalai Lama has made it perfectly clear that he does not seek an independent Tibet. All he asks for is more autonomy (cultural and religious).

In my view he is just one of those hypocrites who are pacifists in word but not in deed. in 1989, backed up by the US governmet, he's awarded the Nobel peace prize for what he says, not for any actual practical efforts instead.

you don't wanna check out what he did and does.
what if someone preaches more autonomy in Kashmir?

These protesters were arrested because they broke Indian laws; they were not arrested because they were protesting or they were Tibetan.

That's good,vish. I hope the Indian police keep doing good jobs.

It is the PRC's lack of transparency and rigidity of approach that has ensured that there are plenty of young Tibetans who are desperate, stupid, and frustrated enough to violent means. The riots in Tibet were not a part of the Free Tibet movement; these were local riots that were a result of PRC's, now universally recognized as failed, Tibet policies.

The riots in Tibet can be easily connected to Free-Tibet movements coz the rioters were holding flags which is used by the Tibetan government in exile, also because hundreds of guns were found in Drepung, the main Gulug temple by some of the Gulug monks. dont mention that protests suddenly broke out in many countries in the same time.

the riots were obviously well planned and organized but not carrying out as good as schedule.

as for the lack of transparency, yes it harms. but also one fact might account dramatically for something: at the begining of the riot in Lahsa on March 14, international media were not banished at all, it was during the Chinese force intervention into the chaos that foreign reports were asked to leave. same thing happened in Aba, later than that of Lahsa.

mind you, once the rioters got wind that international media were block out, they immediately dropped their guns, rocks and delivered themselves to the police. is this fighting for freedom or rather funny performance?

In my country, which I'm proud to say is a democracy, the Tibetans can protest as much as they want as long as they abide by the rules of my country.

yeah that's good, vish, also the rioters should've acted real peaceful protest in Tibet. but if you dont mind, I guess the indian police charged them for infracting public sanitation and health.

Finally, the cat is out of the bag. Tawang is not the only issue between India and China. Why forget Aksai Chin? PRC's "desire" over Sikkim is also omni-present. Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh are a part of India; get used to it. "Immigration by Hindus..."; just a question: do you think only Hindus live in India?

simple, the Dalai Lama didn't mention about Aksai Chin.

No I dont think there're only Hindus in India. Like China, India is a multinational country with many more minority groups as well as religions, but I bet that India is facing to much sharper ethnic minority issues than China does.

The Dalai Lama is way more realpolitik than most. He has made it clear that he does not seek independence, all he seeks is more freedom. Wonder why does the CCP fear this word "freedom"?

We are not giving an inch of our land in Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh. Plus, who gave the PRC rights over Tibet and areas of Tibetan influence? The PRC invaded Tibet; how conveniently is that forgotten.

the past of Dalai Lama is comparable with the darkness of medieval Europe.

well, were I a Kaggu, I would ask the Dalai Lama why he doesn't seek independence in Arunachal Pradesh, especially in Tawang where gave birth to the sixth Dalai Lama. do you know that according to the tradition of the Tibetan Buddhism throughout its history,they've never found a reincarnated soul boy outside Tibetan area?

I'm not here to claim for Arunachal Pradesh, but everybody sees the dispute on it. if you want a discussion on this matter as well as the so called Chinese invasion of Tibet, I'll be with you in another thread.

I do not know whether the Dalai Lama is the representative of all the Tibetans in the world; I do know that all Tibetans that I have come across do respect him a lot, whether they agree with his ideas and methods is a different story.

that's reasonable for different people telling different stories. only one thing
I suggest you taking into account: next time when you ran across tibetans in india, don't forget to ask about their religionary sect.

it is obvious that The Dalai Lama keeps desalting the differences and factional conflicts inside Tibetan Buddhism in order to act on behalf of the entire Tibetan ethnic group.

I do not know much about the history of Tibetan Buddhism; what I do know is that Tibet was invaded by the PRC and that Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh are and will be parts of India.

If indeed what you are saying is correct than please back it up by links. The fact that this "suppression" that you are talking about is so less known (at least that is what I think) does convince me to doubt your words.

I'm not complaining here at all on your claim of those disputed areas,especially on Sikkim which I think the Chinese government already recognized informally. but it's always good for you to know how Inida got them.

I won't be escaping if you open a new thread on Tawang.

and oh, the Dalai Lama suppresion, I can simply tell you that the Gulug suppression of other sects is throughout the Tibetan Buddhism history since the Gulug debut in power. and also tell you that the Dalai Lama suppression of Panchen Lama,another main leader of Gulug who was finally cast away from core Tibetan area, is throughout the Gulug history since the brotherhood broken up in mid 17th century.

 

[vish]

Hi Vish, thanks for replying.

before answering your questions,let's make it clear that my post is not setup to solve any territorial dispute between India and China, nor does it argue in favor of China's media cover-ups. it's an analysis on the Dalai Lama comments.

Fair enough.

In my view he is just one of those hypocrites who are pacifists in word but not in deed. in 1989, backed up by the US governmet, he's awarded the Nobel peace prize for what he says, not for any actual practical efforts instead.

That is your view and you are free to keep it. The world's view on the Dalai Lama is remarkably different.

you don't wanna check out what he did and does.

I have read a decent amount of information about the current Dalai Lama; my information is in stark contrast to yours.

what if someone preaches more autonomy in Kashmir?

Mind you, this may take the thread off-topic.

Jammu & Kashmir enjoys far more "autonomy" and "freedom" than Tibet; I wonder what is your argument.

When I said that the Dalai Lama is demanding greater autonomy and freedom for Tibet, I meant it in a religious and cultural context and not political.

That's good,vish. I hope the Indian police keep doing good jobs.

Fair enough.

The riots in Tibet can be easily connected to Free-Tibet movements coz the rioters were holding flags which is used by the Tibetan government in exile, also because hundreds of guns were found in Drepung, the main Gulug temple by some of the Gulug monks. dont mention that protests suddenly broke out in many countries in the same time.

The Tibetan government-in-exile has made it clear that it is not seeking a Free Tibet. There are many Free Tibet groups and these do have many sympathizers and active/passigve supporters. Some of these groups and some of their supporters are violent in their approach but I doubt if they are so to the extent that you make them out to be. I would like it if you provide me with a link certifying your claim. The protests broke out after news of the crackdown and the scale of the original protests broke out.

the riots were obviously well planned and organized but not carrying out as good as schedule.

Link please.

as for the lack of transparency, yes it harms. but also one fact might account dramatically for something: at the begining of the riot in Lahsa on March 14, international media were not banished at all, it was during the Chinese force intervention into the chaos that foreign reports were asked to leave. same thing happened in Aba, later than that of Lahsa.

And why was this done? Why was a stage-tour arranged? Why not provide freedom to the media?

mind you, once the rioters got wind that international media were block out, they immediately dropped their guns, rocks and delivered themselves to the police. is this fighting for freedom or rather funny performance?

Link please.

yeah that's good, vish, also the rioters should've acted real peaceful protest in Tibet. but if you dont mind, I guess the indian police charged them for infracting public sanitation and health.

They broke Indian laws and were appropriately dealt with in accordance with the law.

Bad joke.

simple, the Dalai Lama didn't mention about Aksai Chin.

That is his personal perrogative; if you want hios views on this issue, you can try reaching him. I'm certain he won't not answer you.

No I dont think there're only Hindus in India. Like China, India is a multinational country with many more minority groups as well as religions, but I bet that India is facing to much sharper ethnic minority issues than China does.

I must say this is your misconception.

the past of Dalai Lama is comparable with the darkness of medieval Europe.

Can you provide me a link in this regard.

well, were I a Kaggu, I would ask the Dalai Lama why he doesn't seek independence in Arunachal Pradesh, especially in Tawang where gave birth to the sixth Dalai Lama. do you know that according to the tradition of the Tibetan Buddhism throughout its history,they've never found a reincarnated soul boy outside Tibetan area?

The Dalai Lama is more realpolitik than you'll ever be. He has made it clear that a Free Tibet is just an dream and will remain so. He recognizes China's soveriegnity over Tibet. That is the reason why he's suggesting that Tawang is a part of India.

I'm not here to claim for Arunachal Pradesh, but everybody sees the dispute on it. if you want a discussion on this matter as well as the so called Chinese invasion of Tibet, I'll be with you in another thread.

Only the PRC/CCP makes Arunachal Pradesh an issue. I'll repeat myself again, "PLA invaded Tibet."

that's reasonable for different people telling different stories. only one thing
I suggest you taking into account: next time when you ran across tibetans in india, don't forget to ask about their religionary sect.

I'll do that and let you know what their response is.

it is obvious that The Dalai Lama keeps desalting the differences and factional conflicts inside Tibetan Buddhism in order to act on behalf of the entire Tibetan ethnic group.

That is a bseless accusation you have made.

I'm not complaining here at all on your claim of those disputed areas,especially on Sikkim which I think the Chinese government already recognized informally. but it's always good for you to know how Inida got them.

Your government doesn't agree with you. I'm aware of the Sikkim fiasco.

I'll repeat again, "Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh are a part of India; we are not going to give it away."

Please tell that to the CCP.

I won't be escaping if you open a new thread on Tawang.

I don't expect you to either.

PS: Stop using smilies; it is a dead give away that you do not have much to argue.

and oh, the Dalai Lama suppresion, I can simply tell you that the Gulug suppression of other sects is throughout the Tibetan Buddhism history since the Gulug debut in power. and also tell you that the Dalai Lama suppression of Panchen Lama,another main leader of Gulug who was finally cast away from core Tibetan area, is throughout the Gulug history since the brotherhood broken up in mid 17th century.

Link please.

Just one question; you make it sound as if things are very much alright in Tibet; if this is indeed so than why does the CCP blankets the region so much?

 

[mxiong]

Just one question; you make it sound as if things are very much alright in Tibet; if this is indeed so than why does the CCP blankets the region so much?

Well, we are just undertaking mass population reduction as the "permanent solution", no go crying before USA and EU. Maybe one day we will do the same thing in New Delhi or just nuke the **** out of it, but there's nothing you can do about it, get it?