What's new

New Navy subs potentially with electric propulsion

IMO I'm unconvinced about the high price-tag. We got the $4-5 billion figure from an analyst who gave his estimation to the Financial Times, it isn't official. KSEW had also shown mock-ups of the Hangor at IDEAS and it's basically the S26.

The Thai S26T order sits at $1.02 bn for 3 submarines (the first being $383 m but the latter two cheaper as the first will absorb support costs). So the average is $333 m per submarine. IMO we are probably looking at customized S26Ps (with LACM-integration and possibly subsystem changes), which would put the tag at a reasonable $3 bn.

Moreover, the induction cycle is relatively quick, i.e. on average of 1.5 years between each submarine. I can't see how they'll produce, test and validate new technology within that time-frame.

That said, I do think the PN will keep an eye on these new technologies, but with the aim of eventually replacing the Agosta 90Bs post-2040. In that sense, they'll need to place orders for a new ship sometime in the late 2020s, and at that time a lot of the new Chinese technology will be in full-scale production - and mature.

This price tag triggers my mind also and makes me think that this deal also include frigates. Do you remember when we received the last f-22p there was news of 4 more f-22??
 
.
This price tag triggers my mind also and makes me think that this deal also include frigates. Do you remember when we received the last f-22p there was news of 4 more f-22??
Yea, but this price hasn't been confirmed officially, it's effectively just speculation. It could be lower.
 
.
Yea, but this price hasn't been confirmed officially, it's effectively just speculation. It could be lower.

but the time frame of 10-12 years. Do it sounds okay to you that Karachi Shipyard will start work simultaneously but will complete 4 subs till 2028?
 
.
I think now the army is also moving to the same route as the tanks and t129 deal are for tot ... even for next generation assault rifle we are looking for complete tot ...



I think this is not the issue of armed forces the issue is of lack of r&d in commercial and private sector .. we closed our only high capability steel mill others are just value addition mills ... now at the core of every defence manufacturing there is metallurgy, material sciences, electronics and communication techonology ...

We are importing all of the above even for commercial purposes ... so basic issue is the missing base ... we have to setup the commercial production ehich can help the local manufacturing of defence industry ...

Hey Mate,

I said both military and civilian leaderships are involved and when I say the "leadership", it is not limited to politicians and military command, it also covers bureaucrats and even private sector to a lesser extent. However, as military has stayed directly in power for the good part (~half) of the country's life so it cannot be exempted at all and also since military is much more independent financially than rest of the institutions, it can take initiatives on its own too.

Just remember each deal to buy a foreign system harms the cause of indigenisation and self reliance in addition to hurting economy and our political autonomy. Also almost every deal involves kickbacks and commissions by both military and political leadership. This also speaks for the hypocrisy of the West that normally pretends to be very fair and honest but when it comes to dealing with the foreign clients the ethics, morality and even laws are easily ignored.

As you said, we are not making even very basic electronics and materials and that's because most of the policies in our country are anti-indigenisation. Our govts have kept the Pakistani auto market captive to only the Japanese manufacturers and namely three brands Suzuki, Toyota and Honda even till date none of them have completed their deletion programs and none is producing 100% locally. Some mindless idiot will come and tell us that "oh we are producing 80-90% of that car model" and I say shove that 90% up his rear. By this time, Pakistan's auto industry should have not only been able to produce 100% of the parts for each model locally but also be able to design new car models locally and export the surplus.

Furthermore, we don't even have our own brand...not a single one.
One guy (Feroz Khan) tried with Adam Revo but it failed because of non-favourable policies. Because the Japanese bribe all of our corrupt politicians and bureaucrats and the people of Pakistan have to pay the price but I'm not sad for them because it is their own fault. They elect corrupt people.
 
Last edited:
.
There is defense and diplomacy episode where admiral one of the guest spoke building one f22p locally was meant to bring /transfer technology and know how and then follow on order to sustain the build, which now everyone knows never happened in case of jf as the numbers as well as Sustainment is going to be over three or so decades ( manufacturing plus support ) so the benefits are far more the 8 subs where 4 locally made may benefit more than f22p and AGosta 90b which ended with one local build and no participation in design/development

 
Last edited:
.
Hey Mate,

I said both military and civilian leaderships are involved and when I say the "leadership", it is not limited to politicians and military command, it also covers bureaucrats and even private sector to a lesser extent. However, as military has stayed directly in power for the good part (~half) of the country's life so it cannot be exempted at all and also since military is much more independent financially than rest of the institutions, it can take initiatives on its own too.

Just remember each deal to buy a foreign system harms the cause of indigenisation and self reliance in addition to hurting economy and our political autonomy. Also almost every deal involves kickbacks and commissions by both military and political leadership. This also speaks for the hypocrisy of the West that normally pretends to be very fair and honest but when it comes to dealing with the foreign clients the ethics, morality and even laws are easily ignored.

As you said, we are not making even very basic electronics and materials and that's because most of the policies in our country are anti-indigenisation. Our govts have kept the Pakistani auto market captive to only the Japanese manufacturers and namely three brands Suzuki, Toyota and Honda even till date none of them have completed their deletion programs and none is producing 100% locally. Some mindless idiot will come and tell us that "oh we are producing 80-90% of that car model" and I say shove that 90% up his rear. By this time, Pakistan's auto industry should have not only been able to produce 100% of the parts for each model locally but also be able to design new car models locally and export the surplus.

Furthermore, we don't even have our own brand...not a single one.
One guy (Feroz Khan) tried with Adam Revo but it failed because of non-favourable policies. Because the Japanese bribe all of our corrupt politicians and bureaucrats and the people of Pakistan have to pay the price but I'm not sad for them because it is their own fault. They elect corrupt people.
I agree ... its a collective failure ...
 
.
IMG_1044.JPG
 
. .
New Navy Subs

According to what I have heard the new subs could potentially employ some new technologies. The Chinese have gotten extremely sophisticated. The "electric" propulsion and other tech is why the contract could be so big.

If not on the first vessels but subsequent units - also a VLS for ASM and also LACM.

You donot need vls for land attack cruise Missile mostly intercontinental ballistic Missile require/use vls
LACM can be launched from torpedo tubes infect yl18 or what ever it’s called c10 can be launched from tubes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-18
 
Last edited:
. .
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...una-submarine-launched-anti-ship-missile.html


Longer range b version now

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/china-unveils-new-submarine-launched-anti-ship-cruise-missile/

If the new ASCM’s range proves accurate, it would put Chinese submarines at a safe distance from most anti-submarine warfare systems.

This report does mention vls ??

Song– and Yuan-class attack submarines will also purportedly be fitted with the YJ-18 vertically-launched, long-range, supersonic anti-ship missile, although an exact induction date for the new weapon is not known.

Yj-18 290 nautical miles range or 333 miles or 537 km

https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/China’s New YJ-18 Antiship Cruise Missile.pdf
 
Last edited:
. . .

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom