New Navy subs potentially with electric propulsion

[war&peace]

They did (in regards to the infrastructure). It'll take time to construct it, but it's in the process:

http://www.ttsgroup.com/Pressroom/P...-contract-for-Syncrolift-and-transfer-system/

TTS Group signs historical contract for Syncrolift® and transfer system 22.06.2017​

Norwegian headquartered TTS Group has today signed a new contract for a 9.000 tonne Syncrolift® (ship lift) and a transfer system with Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works Limited (KSEW) in Pakistan. The total order value is approx. 250 MNOK.

- This is a historical contract. Without comparison, this is the largest Syncrolift® contract we have ever signed. Also compared to Norwegian exports to Pakistan the contract amount is significant. According to available statistics it is 2.5 times the size of the average, annual Norwegian exports to Pakistan, says CEO of TTS Group ASA, Toril Eidesvik.

The equipment deliveries for KSEW will take place in first half of 2019. Design and development will be carried out in Norway, while manufacturing is done in Europe and China.

Significant interest in Syncrolift® technology

Eidesvik appreciates that TTS Syncrolift, a subsidiary of TTS Group, once again proves to be a leading ship lift supplier. Over the years, the subsidiary has gained a 70% market share along with stable and positive earnings.

- We see a high interest for our products all over the world. Within a few years, our company has delivered Syncrolift® to countries as varied as South Korea, Morocco, Kuwait, Turkmenistan, Vietnam, Brazil and Peru. In addition, we see good opportunities in front of us, says Rolf-Atle Tomassen, General Manager of TTS Syncrolift.

Tomassen explains that TTS Syncrolift's strategy is to follow the customer’s strategy, i.e. to minimize docking time, or rather maximize sailing time for ships. Already Syncrolift® and transfer system does this to a certain extent, but the new business area FastDocking™ products will further complement this strategy to support customers in reducing their delivery time.

Replacing traditional ship docking methods

Syncrolift® is the TTS brand name for a ship lift. The Syncrolift® is essentially a large elevator for lifting ships from sea level to land level. The ship is then moved off the elevator and into a dedicated workstation, by using advanced hydraulic transfer trollies.

A Syncrolift®, as opposed to traditional dry docking using graving or floating drydocks, can easily handle 10 ships for repair on dry land. A drydock typically handles one ship at a time. Weight is in not really a limitation for our Syncrolift® technology. In a recent project, TTS handled weights up to 25.000 tonne.

- This gives our customers a volume and efficiency advantage compared to other shipyards using drydocks, Tomassen says. - In a period where the shipyards are consolidating and looking for cost effectiveness through volume, our technology complements this strategy. Our own estimate is that ship lift's is the preferred investment choice in more than 60% of all new investments made in docking/launching facilities.

One of top three largest

TTS Group is an international corporation, with subsidiaries in 14 countries, providing handling solutions and access systems for the marine and offshore industries.

TTS has built a strong market position, based on a diversified product portfolio, in its core shipping markets. The Group is one of the top three largest suppliers worldwide in its specialized market segments.

With a worldwide workforce of around 1000, TTS has more than 50 years of experience in the maritime industry. The Company, with headquarters in Bergen, Norway is listed on Oslo Stock Exchange.​

Actually you know I'm more happy with this kind of development because if the defence industry get commercialised, it is far more sustainable.
Right now there is a big disconnect between our MIC and civil/commercial industries. Though our defence exports are increasing but still those are far far below the potential. Pakistan can and should export 100 times more to the friendly nations.

 

[Yaseen1]

Pakisan should first develop long range slbm otherwise submarine have no value.nuclear submarine should be developed because they can carry more missiles with high payload

 

[Zarvan]

New Navy Subs

According to what I have heard the new subs could potentially employ some new technologies. The Chinese have gotten extremely sophisticated. The "electric" propulsion and other tech is why the contract could be so big.

If not on the first vessels but subsequent units - also a VLS for ASM and also LACM.

It has to be only than the the time line of Submarines delivery makes sense

 

[ziaulislam]

i feel much more is needed than what we are doing, its true that after 90s sanctions for the first time we thought about indigenization but still its incomplete approach. I believe we need to join hands with turkey, Ukraine, China and south Africa

the best example is the JF-17 a highly advance peiece of technology made possible via JV, this is much more advance than manufacturing militery vechiles, SAMs, tanks or tank engines but we never really though about it in the past

 

[mingle]

New Navy Subs

According to what I have heard the new subs could potentially employ some new technologies. The Chinese have gotten extremely sophisticated. The "electric" propulsion and other tech is why the contract could be so big.

If not on the first vessels but subsequent units - also a VLS for ASM and also LACM.

Rafi sb no news on Airforce front ?any new plane we looking ?

 

[Rafi]

Rafi sb no news on Airforce front ?any new plane we looking ?

Stealth fighter and stealth drone/bomber

 

[Hassan Guy]

Why not just build all 8 submarines in Pakistan?

 

[Blue Marlin]

I think the ToT this time around is deeper than the Agosta 90B, which basically involved assembling kits from France and doing integration work (which is now proving useful in terms of mid-life upgrading them). It's possible that KSEW will manufacture the Hangors more independently, but things such as high-grade steel, propulsion, etc, will still come from China. It's just that KSEW might get enough ToT to understand how materials and subsystems are manufactured into submarines, which will be useful in the future should it take on more ambitious projects.


I was referring to this ... IIRC it was at KSEW's stand.

thats the type 39c sub, the curve on the bottom of the sail gives it away

it is possible that the chinese offered a domestic variant instead of a export variant, but that model means nothing as theres no mention or indication of being based on the type 39 series.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

thats the type 39c sub, the curve on the bottom of the sail gives it away

it is possible that the chinese offered a domestic variant instead of a export variant, but that model means nothing as theres no mention or indication of being based on the type 39 series.

Hi
how good Chinese subs will be compared to Indian Scorpene?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Hi
how good Chinese subs will be compared to Indian Scorpene?

no idea indian sub have some of their own stuff in it so it depends on how good they are.
its worth mentioning indian scorpenes dont have aip propulsion.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

its worth mentioning indian scorpenes dont have aip propulsion.

this is good news

 

[Hassan Guy]

Hi
how good Chinese subs will be compared to Indian Scorpene?

Scorpene subs are French. They don't serve in the French navy because they are for coastal defence, not for blue water navy's.

Yes, but the end result is that we have some infrastructure, skilled manpower and, hence, a starting point. There are, IMHO, following paths to follow to achieve a high degree of self reliance:

1. Original research in applied and fundamental sciences & technology (West, Russia, Japan and South Korea)
2. Reverse engineering and copying (Chinese model)
3. Joint ventures and co-developments (Pakistan, India, developing countries)
4. Total technology transfer (developing countries)

A development policy will have a mix of all four. You cannot achieve full freedom and reach the top echelons of technologically advanced nations if you lack (1). However to catch up with the world and also to save money (2, 3 & 4) are equally important and have demonstrated their usefulness.

BTW, all of the developed nations (including West, USA, Russia) have followed these paths (2, 3, 4) to varying degrees at some point.

Pakistan should start with paths (3, 4) while developing path (1) in parallel with path (2) wherever necessary.

Yeah, they should had gone for JV for submarine development instead.

 

[The Accountant]

I think now the army is also moving to the same route as the tanks and t129 deal are for tot ... even for next generation assault rifle we are looking for complete tot ...

none of armed forces branches have ever focused on indigenous production, a famous quote from Ayub was"we will buy nukes what's the worry"
the only exception to some extent is the air force recently who have focused on indigenous solutions
otherwise, you would have seen JV/indigenous efforts in departments like tanks, rifles, and helios

Well, of course the picture is not all hunky-dory but still there has been quite a lot of indigenous development in nuclear program, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, UAVs and UCAVs etc.

But what is totally missing is the vision, policy and will for an integrated development that spans all the sectors: academia, R&D orgs and the industry. Furthermore, the monopoly of the state-owned industry on the defence production. And that's because we have been lead by incompetent, selfish, corrupt, inferiority complexed and short-sighted military boots and crooked politicians.

I think this is not the issue of armed forces the issue is of lack of r&d in commercial and private sector .. we closed our only high capability steel mill others are just value addition mills ... now at the core of every defence manufacturing there is metallurgy, material sciences, electronics and communication techonology ...

We are importing all of the above even for commercial purposes ... so basic issue is the missing base ... we have to setup the commercial production ehich can help the local manufacturing of defence industry ...

 

[ziaulislam]

I think now the army is also moving to the same route as the tanks and t129 deal are for tot ... even for next generation assault rifle we are looking for complete tot ...



I think this is not the issue of armed forces the issue is of lack of r&d in commercial and private sector .. we closed our only high capability steel mill others are just value addition mills ... now at the core of every defence manufacturing there is metallurgy, material sciences, electronics and communication techonology ...

We are importing all of the above even for commercial purposes ... so basic issue is the missing base ... we have to setup the commercial production ehich can help the local manufacturing of defence industry ...

tot alone is not enough, joint ventures and building upon that is important which we lack, as army cannot do that, you need dependent organization which is supported by army through buy outs.
apart from air force kamara vision(thanks to vision set up in 1990s) i dont see that, some what navy is following but we all knwo what happend with Agosta and F22p, and dozen previous projects, we never built upon that.


the future is in JOINT VENTURES its a fact that even USA knows as economy of scale is important part of defence production
this comes from mentality from AYub era where everything could be brought mentality

 

[The Accountant]

tot alone is not enough, joint ventures and building upon that is important which we lack, as army cannot do that, you need dependent organization which is supported by army through buy outs.
apart from air force kamara vision(thanks to vision set up in 1990s) i dont see that, some what navy is following but we all knwo what happend with Agosta and F22p, and dozen previous projects, we never built upon that.


the future is in JOINT VENTURES its a fact that even USA knows as economy of scale is important part of defence production
this comes from mentality from AYub era where everything could be brought mentality

Yes i think here gov has to play a role ... if our finance ministry can read this then we need to create finance houses and have to build upon on the concept of venture capital. By using capital we will be setting up 2 type of institutes ... first the finance houses which will have capital and second will be professional enterprenuer and experts in business setups ... finance houses will provide seed money where experts will create new ventures or restablish dead organizations ... within a period of 3 to 4 years organizations will start generating profits and hence can be sold in stock exchnage with 90% to general public and 10% to some strategic investor ...

This is the same model used by israel .. we can build industries using this model but unfortunately we are too busy in looting ...