New Load Out On JF-17 Thunder

[CivilianSupremacy]

Id rather have 2xPL-15s than 4xSD-10s

What if you are facing 4 mig-21s or 4 mig-29s with R-77s instead of a single Rafale?

Block 3 certainly can carry PL-15Es if required. SD-10As will still remain relevant for quite a long period of time. PAF won't be facing Rafales / Meteors every time. Also note, we have very limited number of PL-15Es as of now because of the cost factor.

I vividly remember ACM Sohail Aman wordings during an interview.. "PL-15 is a very expensive weapon". He also added SD-10 is a very good missile. Crux is we cannot field PL-15s in numbers. We will have to rely on medium range SD-10s. Also there is no such urgent need to aquire vast number of PL-15s when bulk of IAF operates R-77 as their main BVR weapon.

IMO, 4 SD-10s configuration is quite lethal as well.

 

[khansaheeb]

A useful add on would be drone attachments where the Thunder can drop/let a drone go to extend the drones range as a radar decoy, radar picket, reconnaissance, and forward anti-tank attacks beyond enemy lines etc.

 

[siegecrossbow]

What if you are facing 4 mig-21s or 4 mig-29s with R-77s instead of a single Rafale?

Block 3 certainly can carry PL-15Es if required. SD-10As will still remain relevant for quite a long period of time. PAF won't be facing Rafales / Meteors every time. Also note, we have very limited number of PL-15Es as of now because of the cost factor.

I vividly remember ACM Sohail Aman wordings during an interview.. "PL-15 is a very expensive weapon". He also added SD-10 is a very good missile. Crux is we cannot field PL-15s in numbers. We will have to rely on medium range SD-10s. Also there is no such urgent need to aquire vast number of PL-15s when bulk of IAF operates R-77 as their main BVR weapon.

IMO, 4 SD-10s configuration is quite lethal as well.

You are correct. As per PLAAF evaluation PL-12 is superior to R-77 in all aspects.

 

[MastanKhan]

What if you are facing 4 mig-21s or 4 mig-29s with R-77s instead of a single Rafale?

Block 3 certainly can carry PL-15Es if required. SD-10As will still remain relevant for quite a long period of time. PAF won't be facing Rafales / Meteors every time. Also note, we have very limited number of PL-15Es as of now because of the cost factor.

I vividly remember ACM Sohail Aman wordings during an interview.. "PL-15 is a very expensive weapon". He also added SD-10 is a very good missile. Crux is we cannot field PL-15s in numbers. We will have to rely on medium range SD-10s. Also there is no such urgent need to aquire vast number of PL-15s when bulk of IAF operates R-77 as their main BVR weapon.

IMO, 4 SD-10s configuration is quite lethal as well.

Hi,

ACM Sohalil was correct in his analysis at that time---but the goal posts have changed in dimension since then---.

PL15 will become the primary go to missile & the SD10---the secondary go to missile for BVR combat as well as wvr combat---.

 

[Ali_Baba]

What if you are facing 4 mig-21s or 4 mig-29s with R-77s instead of a single Rafale?

Block 3 certainly can carry PL-15Es if required. SD-10As will still remain relevant for quite a long period of time. PAF won't be facing Rafales / Meteors every time. Also note, we have very limited number of PL-15Es as of now because of the cost factor.

I vividly remember ACM Sohail Aman wordings during an interview.. "PL-15 is a very expensive weapon". He also added SD-10 is a very good missile. Crux is we cannot field PL-15s in numbers. We will have to rely on medium range SD-10s. Also there is no such urgent need to aquire vast number of PL-15s when bulk of IAF operates R-77 as their main BVR weapon.

IMO, 4 SD-10s configuration is quite lethal as well.

How about a SD10 and a Pl15 on the same dual rack? Solves both problems?

 

[m52k85]

What if you are facing 4 mig-21s or 4 mig-29s with R-77s instead of a single Rafale?

Block 3 certainly can carry PL-15Es if required. SD-10As will still remain relevant for quite a long period of time. PAF won't be facing Rafales / Meteors every time. Also note, we have very limited number of PL-15Es as of now because of the cost factor.

I vividly remember ACM Sohail Aman wordings during an interview.. "PL-15 is a very expensive weapon". He also added SD-10 is a very good missile. Crux is we cannot field PL-15s in numbers. We will have to rely on medium range SD-10s. Also there is no such urgent need to aquire vast number of PL-15s when bulk of IAF operates R-77 as their main BVR weapon.

IMO, 4 SD-10s configuration is quite lethal as well.

As @MastanKhan alludes to, PL-15 was a privilege in 2018, it will be the standard in 2028, the Blk-3 is being designed for the next 30 yrs. If what you say that Blk-3 is able to carry 2 Pl-15s then thats good, but we have not seen any pictures.

Regarding your scenario, if it is an interception or combat air patrol mission, 2 out of 4 migs falling when they are two times the engagement range of their weapons will have the other 2 turn back. You just dont fire 1 Pl-12 at each mig when they are close to their own engagement parameters and expect all 4 to fall out of the sky. Im no expert but watching DCS has taught me that.

 

[GriffinsRule]

As @MastanKhan alludes to, PL-15 was a privilege in 2018, it will be the standard in 2028, the Blk-3 is being designed for the next 30 yrs. If what you say that Blk-3 is able to carry 2 Pl-15s then thats good, but we have not seen any pictures.

Regarding your scenario, if it is an interception or combat air patrol mission, 2 out of 4 migs falling when they are two times the engagement range of their weapons will have the other 2 turn back. You just dont fire 1 Pl-12 at each mig when they are close to their own engagement parameters and expect all 4 to fall out of the sky. Im no expert but watching DCS has taught me that.

The last bit of this post ... was just reading an article on missile to aircraft ratio for Taiwan vs China scenario ... where Taiwan is likely to run out of its missiles in the first 2-3 days of war and will be forced to use older AIM-7s in that case. (their ratio was 4 AMRAAMs per F-16)

Since we don't have the quantity of PL-15s or SD-10, we cant say for sure but in terms of F-16s, have at most 496 AIM-120s (prolly a bit fewer). That's 8 missiles per F-16 (63/75 that can shoot AIM-120s). The likely hood is high that you will shoot at least 2 missiles per target, and if you have multiple engagements in the same sortie, all 4 AMRAAMs will come off the rail. Many AIM-120s will miss, many F-16s will get shot down while carrying their missiles as well. So within the first few days, we will be all out of AIM-120s as well and those aircraft will then have to rely on AIM-9s.
PAF should also focus on upgrading the 13 ADF versions with at least some BVR option, even if they don't get an MLU type upgrade due to age. Cooperative targeting will at least enable them to carry BVR missile and shoot them.

This is where JF-17s gives us cushion perhaps (we don't know how many SD-10s we have bought over the years) but at least getting replenishments will be easier for expended stock after the war.