New Karakol's for the Army

[LegionnairE]

@cb4 that reminded me of German U-boat bases in WWII anyway karakols are mainly built to provide shelter to soldiers and mountain commandos and such.Thus help control over terror-infested areas. They are expected to withstand all kinds of RPG and mortar attacks.

@cabatli_53 what about NBC protection?

 

[Cem_]

Just waste of money, time and energy nothing more..

We need to dismantle all of those sitting duck targets.

 

[Targon]

Of course army should be offensive and mobile but these solid shelters&observation centers are necessary too.

 

[Cem_]

Army should not involve in any of those anti-ter ops. Its job for secret service supported by special forces.

 

[Cracker]

great pics thanks

 

[Killuminati]

@Killuminati

True but we also need stationary outposts like this to maintain our presence in an area and fly our holy flag. By the way i can't believe that this place has trenches around wtf?

I know but we already have these outposts. Make new outposts with a little bit higher security level doesnt change the facts that they can attack you easly. Its better to make other plans than just building things and let newbies stay there you know what i mean..

But this never will change in Turkey. We saw what happend in the 90's. Especialy in 91 to 93. I dont see any general left that can take the same action as they did. Unfortunally the remaining persons (generals) of the ''Bitlis group'' are now in jail by a huge lie.. the ergenekon.

Anyway we still have Osman Pamukoglu and Erdal Sarizeybek that warns the people from this treatment. I hope our people will open their eyes soon and take AKP to the ground.

 

[LegionnairE]

I think the main problem is, government not wanting to see terror as a military problem but a political one. That's why they refuse to take military measures in hand. We had a good momentum in 2008. We must do similiar operations every year to break the PKK's will to fight. That's the only thing that can possibly be done. Because we are suffering much lesser damage when attacking then defending.

But as i said; before the political authority change mentality about military operations and start using them as a tool to destryo terror threat rather than a tool to raise public morale, we are dead in water.

 

[BronzePlaque]

I think the main problem is, government not wanting to see terror as a military problem but a political one. That's why they refuse to take military measures in hand. We had a good momentum in 2008. We must do similiar operations every year to break the PKK's will to fight. That's the only thing that can possibly be done. Because we are suffering much lesser damage when attacking then defending.

But as i said; before the political authority change mentality about military operations and start using them as a tool to destryo terror threat rather than a tool to raise public morale, we are dead in water.

Bro for the last 30 years, previous governments saw terror as only military problem..Now i think its time to change the approach..But that discussion will derail the topic

 

[Killuminati]

I think the main problem is, government not wanting to see terror as a military problem but a political one. That's why they refuse to take military measures in hand. We had a good momentum in 2008. We must do similiar operations every year to break the PKK's will to fight. That's the only thing that can possibly be done. Because we are suffering much lesser damage when attacking then defending.

But as i said; before the political authority change mentality about military operations and start using them as a tool to destryo terror threat rather than a tool to raise public morale, we are dead in water.

Even that millitary operations like in 2008 doesnt give results because its not only a matter of terrorists in the mountains. When a huge group taken out, soon will get new people from ground to the mountains. The real solution to defeat PKK is by taking out the structure of PKK. You have countries that support this terrorism by economy and political. If you cant take this out, the terrorism will never end. So even the millitary operations doesnt give any solution. AKP just do this to take the fire down in the hearts of the Turkish people and after 3 months everybody has forgot the shaheeds we gave but only the mothers remember.

I hate this dirty politics.

Bro for the last 30 years, previous governments saw terror as only military problem..Now i think its time to change the approach..But that discussion will derail the topic

Thats not true. Since Ottoman Empire there was already kurdish headmans that worked with France, Brittain etc. to rebel agains the Ottoman government and later on a civil war. A kurdish state is be needed to devide Turkey and later on the jews will anyway take over that kurdish state.

We lived more then 1000 years with kurdish people and never had a problem with them. Why should we have now a ethnic problem? Ethnic problem is nothing else but a world propaganda to fully support kurdish people for a kurdish indepented state. AKP has brought more then 33 ethnic groups now and everyday they talking about Turks and kurds. Man this is a psygological warfare. New born kurdish kids will grow up with these two terms ''Turkish and kurdish'' so there will be no no question of association. Thats how they want to break the Turks but keeping these two out of eachother. We must be alert man. Always ask first how these AKP started by who. Whos follower it is.

And yes these groups are nothing else but the folowers of the rebel saidi kurdi that wanted a kurdish state.

 

[LegionnairE]

Bro for the last 30 years, previous governments saw terror as only military problem..Now i think its time to change the approach..But that discussion will derail the topic

So what changed in last 30 years that changed the problem from military to politic? We have a much better equipped and better trained military why shouldn't we use it? if we pull the pressure back it'll mean nothing but recognizing PKK.

Even that millitary operations like in 2008 doesnt give results because its not only a matter of terrorists in the mountains. When a huge group taken out, soon will get new people from ground to the mountains.

No, if there is a way of stopping PKK from recruiting our subject to their ranks it is stopping them from operating at all. We must constantly bomb their encampments in northern Iraq to break their supply routes and night operations on colser targets to neutralize them. And from time to time we must do deeper operations like we did in the past. It's the only way the mothers will not weep.

And even if it's going to take another thirty years to destroy PKK, so be it. We'd rather die trying with honor. You see, this is our vatan, there is nowhere else to live for us, so it's our duty to protect it every moment of our existence.

 

[BronzePlaque]

So what changed in last 30 years that changed the problem from military to politic? We have a much better equipped and better trained military why shouldn't we use it? if we pull the pressure back it'll mean nothing but recognizing PKK.



No, if there is a way of stopping PKK from recruiting our subject to their ranks it is stopping them from operating at all. We must constantly bomb their encampments in northern Iraq to break their supply routes and night operations on colser targets to neutralize them. And from time to time we must do deeper operations like we did in the past. It's the only way the mothers will not weep.

And even if it's going to take another thirty years to destroy PKK, so be it. We'd rather die trying with honor. You see, this is our vatan, there is nowhere else to live for us, so it's our duty to protect it every moment of our existence.

I am sorry..I have to disagree here..Dont get me wrong, i am not against military operations but we cant end terror with only military operations no matter how much sophisticated, well trained army we have..We can only reduce it to some level..There are several causes of terrorism we face and we need to find the root causes so that we can take proper measures..Imho; poverty, unemployment, injustice, corruption and lack of education are the main causes of terrorism in Turkey..So basically; reducing poverty in the region, creating employment opportunities, reducing the gap between the rich and poor, creating opportunities for people in the region so that they could educate their children or encouraging them to educate their children, and finally getting rid of corrupt leaders can have a huge impact on reducing the level of terrorism..In conclusion; not only we must use military measures but also we must try to eliminate those causes..Otherwise, even if we manage to kill every each of terrorists, if the causes still exist, more will join terrorism..Thats what i meant by different approach

 

[LegionnairE]

I am sorry..I have to disagree here..Dont get me wrong, i am not against military operations but we cant end terror with only military operations no matter how much sophisticated, well trained army we have..We can only reduce it to some level..

I'm not saying other measures shuld not be taken but, killing them is key in demoralising them and demoralising them is key in defeating them. And not just the terrorists and their leaders in mountains but all speratists.

There are several causes of terrorism we face and we need to find the root causes so that we can take proper measures..Imho; poverty, unemployment, injustice, corruption and lack of education are the main causes of terrorism in Turkey..So basically; reducing poverty in the region, creating employment opportunities, reducing the gap between the rich and poor, creating opportunities for people in the region so that they could educate their children or encouraging them to educate their children, and finally getting rid of corrupt leaders can have a huge impact on reducing the level of terrorism..In conclusion; not only we must use military measures but also we must try to eliminate those causes..Otherwise, even if we manage to kill every each of terrorists, if the causes still exist, more will join terrorism..Thats what i meant by different approach

Again you are partially right. But you are wrong in one thing, some people do not join terrorists because they are hungry or poor, some of them join because so badly brainwashed to their ideologies call it kurdish nationalism or racism doesn't matter.These people will join PKK even if you build a factory in every street of SE.

+: PKK and their sympathizers are making it hard if not impossible for any Turkish businessman to work in SE. This shows a bigger problem. This shows we gave them the false image of being weak, especially after habur they see themselves as victors and they see no problem in operating in cities and extorting local businesses

We need to take action gentlemen. There can be NO peace, no peace as long as pkk lives and threatens our society. We have to put pkk's mountain operation out of business and execute their leaders in public before we can think of any political solution. Otherwise will only mean recognizing PKK. We must show the population that taking arms against government is nothing but signing one's own death warrant.

 

[Saithan]

I think both of you are on the same page, and let's face it someone who is economically sound and safe wouldn't support terrorism, someone educated wouldn't support terrorism. Especially if there isn't any discrimination.

 

[Quasar]

 

[asad71]

1.Such post are for border troops, gendarmerie, etc. Military troops may use them as administrative bases when when called into an op. Otherwise these will inculcate a habit of staying in the comforts of indoors leaving the countryside free for the insurgents, etc. That will be particularly true at night. Growing of a Maginot Line mentality is dangerous for COIN.

2. Often influential military contractors are able to sell ideas to reap profit. Just after the 1965 War PA surprisingly embarked on such a scheme building concrete bunkers/ pill boxes all over the front line. These proved useless when war actually did start. In fact intelligent commanders avoided them fearing the enemy would have these marked and registered as targets on their artillery observers' maps.

3. I wonder why these are called Karakol - which is a common headgear in central/western Asia?