New J-10B shows comprehensive rather than partial improvements

[longlong]

this video depicts rafale did manage to make a kill against f22 in a dog fight only .How can someone post a video about bvr warfare ,use your commonsense

Bvr warfare has been proven against planes whose pilots barely knew how to do evasive manuveurs,
planes having no proper functioning RWR & electronic warfare suite .

So dont think BVR warfare would only be fought by 5th gen fighters only , with future stealth fighters coming the future aerial warfare would be fought more in WVR warfare than bvr warfare as Kill probabilty would decrease even further at bvr range warfare.

SO dog fight would still live.


CHEERS

In a dogfight, a 5 years old kid can gunshot a fully armed special force warrior.

In a BVR fight, who find the enemy first, who will fire first. Whatever a maneuverer you are, you can not be better than a rocket engined missile.

When a (or two?) BVR missile coming, it's too late.

Rafale is a not so bad 4th gen aircraft only before the age of AESA. It's small physical size radar disk is handicapped leg, permantently. And there has no way to change it, it is fixed.

Rafale poor radar size make it no chance to get close to J-10B, F-22.

 

[Beast]

J-10B has reduced RCS features but claiming it has better RCS than rafale is no no.

 

[longlong]

J-10B has reduced RCS features but claiming it has better RCS than rafale is no no.

Why no no? A 1970s VS 2000s? Aircraft evolved, and old European had no 5th gen aircraft making experience.

 

[SR-91]

Why no no? A 1970s VS 2000s? Aircraft evolved, and old European had no 5th gen aircraft making experience.

just like your nuclear submarines…..makes more noise than the submarines from the 70's era

 

[longlong]

just like your nuclear submarines…..makes more noise than the submarines from the 70's era

Do you have?LOL

 

[Akasa]

just like your nuclear submarines…..makes more noise than the submarines from the 70's era

The judgement of capabilities for PLAN submarines should be left to naval analysts.

And how does that pertain to this topic?

 

[Akasa]

This was quoted by an American Navy analyst.

we dnt make crap!!!!!

AND YES!!

Riight, as if China is so willing to leak out the actual decibel levels of their submarines.

Once more, how does that pertain to this topic?

 

[Zarvan]

I would love to see them as part of Pakistan Air Force in really large numbers and if this is improved version and doing great than this is equally good news for Pakistan as it is for China

 

[帅的一匹]

How many J10B PLAAF gonna induct? I think we need at least 500 of this beast to reinforce the China's ADIZ.

 

[razgriz19]

The premise of your post is retarded.

You trying to show how great a Rafale is versus an F22.

A 1970's F-16 A/B can rip F22 apart in a Dogfight.

Does that make the F16 superior to F22 ?

F22 wasn't designed for Dogfights my friend.

you are wrong mate.
F-22 was designed as an air superiority fighter from day one. It is one of the best, if not the best, dog fighter out there.

 

[帅的一匹]

Rafale might lock on F22 1 out of every 10 times, but a F22 will have 90% probability to lock on Rafale when both engage.

Rafale is sitting ducks when it engages with F22 in BVR combat.

Rafale is sitting duck when it engages with J20 as well.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Is the pilot in the video has a heart prblem because he was breathing hard.

Uh...yeah. That video doesn't prove anything though.

Rafale poor radar size make it no chance to get close to J-10B, F-22.

Size doesn't matter. The level of technology does.

 

[Oldman1]

Why would China need the Su-35 when it can do the same thing with J-15, J-16, and J-10B?



Mock dogfights, in which both teams limit their modus operandi and aircraft capabilities, are nothing representative of modern day combat. PAF F-16s managed to defeat Typhoons as well but that does not mean PAF F-16s will experience the same kind of odds in real warfare.

And please look in a mirror when accusing someone of daydreaming.

Not to mention in a real combat it would unleashed this.

So it doesn't matter if how maneuverable it is. Still get killed.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Mock dogfights, in which both teams limit their modus operandi and aircraft capabilities, are nothing representative of modern day combat. PAF F-16s managed to defeat Typhoons as well but that does not mean PAF F-16s will experience the same kind of odds in real warfare.

And please look in a mirror when accusing someone of daydreaming.

It's somewhat true mock dog fights are nothing representive of modern day combat but it 'a real way to determine the effectiveness of plane's manuveurabilty / pilot skills in a comparative mode against other fighters it's one of the way of evaluation also.

Paf- f16s what they did to that Raf typhoon same thing was done By Greek F16 to french rafale;s & the reason was the same - "Inexperienced Pilots from both the losing side " but the both the planes technologically & manuveurabilty purpose were superior to F16 .

But in the F22 vs rafale scenario the situation was not the same like those i mentioned above .Both
the F22 pilots &rafale pilots were experienced pilots . F22 is boast to have TVC's & higher T/W ratio.
but still rafale did manage to make a kill ,.

& before preaching lecture to me about this
"And please look in a mirror when accusing someone of daydreaming."

i want to tell u 1 thing i have seen myself in the mirror thoroughly & infact it's my duty now to show you the mirror that ur indeed day dreaming about J10b comparable to Rafale !!



HOW??


ans - When you want to compare a fighters's effectiveness against other fighters there are various ways to prove a plane's superiority in a comparitve analysis??

I) Aerial war games

II) Comparitive evaluation report in trials of other countries which the planes is about to be sold



I) Aerial war games -

Rafale has done many aerial war games with various fighters available now .It has impresseved everyone with it's remarkable manuveurabilty & agility
here we go
1)RAFALE THRASHING TYPHOON 9-1 in Solenzara, 2009.

Enemy Brothers
Air&Cosmos - June 2010

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.
Rafale News - Page 101

2)Rafale's War Game with F-22 (2009)

Duels over the sands
Air&Cosmos , June 2010

One defeat for five draws.

The U.S. Air Force, however, put strict conditions surrounding the confrontation: the Raptor will not participate in any BVR exercise with foreign aircraft. The American pilots only accept to confront in dogfight, 1 vs 1, against crews that participate in the exercise. Pilots of the 1/7 take their chance ... and the results will be rather promising: on 6 engagements, only one has resulted, according to the French aviators, with a straightforward victory for the F-22A. The other 5 have ended with a 'draw' ,a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: Dual protracted beyond a preset time,crossing of the floor set for the exercice ...
2 main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: the thrust vector and the enormous power conferred by its 2 reactors, which give each twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F22A maintains a formidable manceuvrability that allows it to leave the most delicate BFM situations; even if it loses a lot of energy during maneuvers with the highest angle of attack, this energy can be quickly recovered by its engines.
But the french pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor as invulnerable: "Facing an F-22A, the Rafale can be put in firing position but it must do it very quickly, lest the roles reversed if the battle drags on" summarizes a French aviator.

Rafale News - Page 101

3)RAFALE'S SUPERB PERFORMANCE IN AERIAL EXERCISE WITH MIRAGE 2000 & f16:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...resse/lbg07/defense/rafale/foxThree_nr_10.pdf



II) Comparitive evaluation report in trials of other countries which the planes is about to be sold

Rafale has been fielded against various fighters in the evaluation trials for various countries plane's requirement. One can see those leaked evaluation reports clearly what it states

a)switzerland leaked evaluation report
2008 analysis

2009 analysis

http://kovy.free.fr/temp/rafale/pdf/12332.pdf
Rafale News: Switzerland, Evaluation report quick analysis


b)DUTCH EVALUATION REPORT IN 2001

Avion de chasse: les Pays-Bas ont-ils favorisé le F-35 ? - bruxelles2 Europe de la Défense
Dedefensa.org : To The Point, Context n°50 (March-April 2002) - The Road to Chaos and The Dutch Way

SO one can see clearly how rafale performed in evaluation trials when pitted against other fighters

Why would China need the Su-35 when it can do the same thing with J-15, J-16, and J-10B?

Due to lack of military transparency /technical details from china regarding those fighters one cant specifically use it for any comparitive analysis against other fighters .
Many here are very skeptical & over estimating many things just by seeing the pics only posted here in the chinese forum .Which is highly illogical .

Meanwhile SU -35 even if it is new platform does have it's sources well documented in the net & is equally capable to french rafale in many department & even superior in some grounds also.





CHEERS

 

[DrSomnath999]

The premise of your post is retarded.

You trying to show how great a Rafale is versus an F22.

A 1970's F-16 A/B can rip F22 apart in a Dogfight.

Does that make the F16 superior to F22 ?

F22 wasn't designed for Dogfights my friend.

That utter B.S

F22 is boast to have supermanuveurabilty
thanks to it's
I) higher T/W ratio
ii) 2 axis TVCS

it is just that it's stealthy so it's advantage lies in BVR warfare against 4th gen planes,but when future rival stealth planes comes it would restrict more to closer BVR warfare even if not in WVR warfare range.


CHEERS