New Defining Lines

[Salik]

Experiments can also go wrong, leak out of laboratories and become pandemics so be careful what you wish for. Since it has already happened in Pakistan with multiple experiments playing havoc to the extent no Pakistani is willing to accept the beliefs of another and are more a danger to each other than to any individual outside of Pakistan

There have been multiple experiments but the core basis has remained the same i.e. PPC ( Pakistan Penal Code). It divided us in '71 and it brought us to the brink of default now.

PPC is like allopathic medicine which has high success rate but still in many cases it declares a patient incurable. There are reported cases where an incurable patient is healed and even brought back to life after declared dead, through other methods of treatment.

PPC should have it's fair share but not the whole of Pakistan. There are other successful systems like the one Islamic golden age had. Take a chapter from the past and see how it makes a difference in our country.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Previously posted incomplete that didn't convey the message and obviously was taken down. Trying again, including all the points and hopefully this time it will make a right sense.

The subject matter is that; since the creation of Pakistan there have been demands of implementation of Shariah Law on and off. This has been creating issues regarding law and order and social harmony. There are various schools of thoughts in Pakistan; if ever, entertaining any one group and leaving the others is not a right strategy. There has to be a solution any way.

So the idea is that; just like India made it's states based on linguistics, we in Pakistan can make different regions on the basis of different schools of thought.

For instance: we can give tribal areas and adjacent regions to Deobandi Hanafi school, Hazara and adjacent areas to Shia school, Karachi and adjacent areas to Barelvi school and capital territory with nearby areas to the current system i.e. Pakistan Penal Code, etc.

This proposal will have immediate effect on our judicial system and remove the burden from judiciary where millions of cases are pending. Secondly, it will kill the narrative of extremism and terrorism once and for all.

this will only feul the sectarianism and create further rifts between cities.
the state can never ever satisfy mullahs.

 

[Goritoes]

New Defining lines ? Pakistani's aate ki lines mai lage hue hai aur is ko Defining Lines ki pari hai.

 

[FuturePAF]

Before adding new problems through social engineering, how about just doing the jobs efficiently for which the officials have been employed. There are no quick shortcuts to good governance. Efficient administration and the rule of law that has been established by the current constitution, and accept by the majority of the population via a democratic process, should be upheld. Any changes should be done through parliament. The law by and large should be the same nationwide, with only some local laws differing in accordance with local needs and cultural differences that don’t undermine the constitution or spirit of the federal laws.

if the country can do this and do it well for at least ten years, while shifting to primarily focusing on the economy, then it can comeback to see if any issues have been left unaddressed, but by and large what seem like major cultural issues will find themselves resolved through our democratic process. A strong economy is the best way to keep the decision making process within the country and not at the mercy of foreign influence that can spend money on NGOs that try to socially engineer with influence campaigns. A well educated populace is also one that will have a stronger sense of unity, being law abiding, and able to adapt to economic conditions.

Overly empowering people that have a vested interest in seeing their own influence increase or the status quo continue is a recipe to have more of the same stagnation we have had for decades.

 

[Salik]

Before adding new problems through social engineering, how about just doing the jobs efficiently for which the officials have been employed. There are no quick shortcuts to good governance. Efficient administration and the rule of law that has been established by the current constitution, and accept by the majority of the population via a democratic process, should be upheld. Any changes should be done through parliament. The law by and large should be the same nationwide, with only some local laws differing in accordance with local needs and cultural differences that don’t undermine the constitution or spirit of the federal laws.

if the country can do this and do it well for at least ten years, while shifting to primarily focusing on the economy, then it can comeback to see if any issues have been left unaddressed, but by and large what seem like major cultural issues will find themselves resolved through our democratic process. A strong economy is the best way to keep the decision making process within the country and not at the mercy of foreign influence that can spend money on NGOs that try to socially engineer with influence campaigns. A well educated populace is also one that will have a stronger sense of unity, being law abiding, and able to adapt to economic conditions.

Overly empowering people that have a vested interest in seeing their own influence increase or the status quo continue is a recipe to have more of the same stagnation we have had for decades.

First thing first, how much can one expect from current system. It takes literally twenty years to move a case from lower court to high court. There's no formula to improve it. Proposals in this thread have solution for multiple issues and sould be part of the reforms to be made by the new govt.

this will only feul the sectarianism and create further rifts between cities.
the state can never ever satisfy mullahs.

Get feedback from religious circles on these proposals. They'll welcome it. They'll also give guarantee of no sectarianism and no rift between cities and no civil war in the country.

 

[FuturePAF]

First thing first, how much can one expect from current system. It takes literally twenty years to move a case from lower court to high court. There's no formula to improve it. Proposals in this thread have solution for multiple issues and sould be part of the reforms to be made by the new govt.



Get feedback from religious circles on these proposals. They'll welcome it. They'll also give guarantee of no sectarianism and no rift between cities and no civil war in the country.

And adding a layer of government will speed up the process? I agree, the courts should do their work reasonably quickly, but it opens the possibility that judges can be corrupted to sway one way and justice will be seen as arbitrary. Perhaps there should be things that go into binding arbitration rather than the courts, but without fully thinking out the implications, we will be opening ourselves to new problems. We should study how implementing the kind of chances you advocate have played out in other countries and formulate guidelines for reforms. Then place them in front of the parliament to vote them into law.

 

[TheSolution]

Get feedback from religious circles on these proposals. They'll welcome it. They'll also give guarantee of no sectarianism and no rift between cities and no civil war in the country.

Guarantees don't mean shit, and this is an utterly stupid idea for the reasons stated multiple times already.

Only a fool divides a state based on sectarian lines and feeds into sectarian extremism between such different beliefs.

Horrible idea which shouldn't be entertained.

 

[Salik]

Guarantees don't mean shit, and this is an utterly stupid idea for the reasons stated multiple times already.

Only a fool divides a state based on sectarian lines and feeds into sectarian extremism between such different beliefs.

Horrible idea which shouldn't be entertained.

Going to a quack doctor is as horrible as going to a fake mullah. There should be crackdown on both of them. But there are qualified doctors and well versed religious scholars, both should be allowed to work in society and people should have the option to go to the doctor and scholar of their choice and liking.

As far as the proposal of this thread and sectarianism are concerned; each school of thought or sect is being uplifted simultaneously, so their inter-sectarian calculus will remain the same.

Real question is, are you ready to give the people extra option to go to someone to get their problem solved.

 

[DabbuSardar]

So another Indian clown peddling "bhai bhai, we are the same" Why don't you shove your chanakya tactics up your a*s

Just wait till the new breed of ultra patriotic secular Pakistanis arrive. You better start practicing your urdu

Plenty Pakistanis are secular, the day pakistan as a whole becomes secular you will solve 90 percent of your own problems and half of the problems with us.

So lets pray it happens sooner than later.

 

[DabbuSardar]

Sikhs are finished, this is all just wet dreams.

Your religion will cease to exist in the future and will be drowned out in India.

You fell off son, you only had a very brief period in history, it's finished for good now.

The big players in the game are Muslims and Hindus.

Mughals and others been trying to finish sikhi since inception, they all died trying and their empires died too, we been playing winning this game for a long time now, next.

We wrangled half of punjab back then from the biggies, now we are everywhere in power around the globe. Hindus and muslims combined cannot drown sikhs in say US or Canada can they?

You fell off son, you only had a very brief period in history, it's finished for good now

It was longer than your first khilafat and Ali's khilafat, both of you are surviving no?

 

[epebble]

Does it make sense?

Basic criminal law is similar in most countries. They are generally derived from (English) Common Law which has its origins in Roman Law which has its origins in .... So, there is no great shame in using a framework from 19th Century IPC. Newton's Laws are also from England, it is even older, from 17th Century. All engineers use it even today to design machines and structures.

 

[fitpOsitive]

You are inviting a second wave of religious war inside Pakistan. The first wave is not over yet and has taken the form of TTP, AQ and ISIS.

You have again repeated a western progenda here.
TTP is not fighting a religious war. It appeared after USAs afghan invasion and is non-religious its every aspect.
AQ is fighting against world dominance of western powers. Its operations are still sheddy, and in past, many of her operatives were working with CIA, and who knows they still are working with them.
ISIS came USAs Iraq invasion. Its top management is, again, linked to CIA, and again, who knows, is still working for CIA.

USA has very deep role in it. All these operations were started just for the destruction of institution of Islam. In this war, thousands of Ulama got killed. But who killed them? Religious people?
Definitely not. CIA killed them.

 

[Signalian]

You have again repeated a western progenda here.
TTP is not fighting a religious war. It appeared after USAs afghan invasion and is non-religious its every aspect.
AQ is fighting against world dominance of western powers. Its operations are still sheddy, and in past, many of her operatives were working with CIA, and who knows they still are working with them.
ISIS came USAs Iraq invasion. Its top management is, again, linked to CIA, and again, who knows, is still working for CIA.

USA has very deep role in it. All these operations were started just for the destruction of institution of Islam. In this war, thousands of Ulama got killed. But who killed them? Religious people?
Definitely not. CIA killed them.

Religious extremism.