Nehru and Congress betrayed Netaji

[Bhai Zakir]

1.) What the topic have to do with India defense section?

2.) Its all gas and propaganda of BJP who even betrayed Lord Ram they have said that "Ram lala hum ayenge, mandir wahi banaange" but nothing happened after that. As they know its a case in the court they just milk the emotion of public and got power.

 

[Indischer]

@Indischer Never mind! Be safe where ever you are

You too, Herr Adler!

Nope. failure of monsoons aside, Churchill kept diverting foodstock for the war effort while famine conditions continued. Having said that the core premise of the thread is trash. Gandhi was the undisputed leader of the congress. Netaji's approach did not gel with Gandhijis, so he got Netaji out and kept him out. That is his prerogative as the leader of the movement, his vision is what drives the party, he doesn't have to accommodate anyone else's, especially if it so violently contractor to his own.

Well said . Though, I still say that his actions, highly selfish as they were, weren't genocidal. He put Britaian's interests far above those of Indians, but he still believed that "Indians are fit to be ruled by the white man". Not "Indians ought to be eliminated".

 

[Indischer]

Yes never do that or ISI will come after you
Your location flag shows Germany

Yeah. So I'm one among the 50k Indians presently in Germany. See, how easy it is to find someone from this small group?

 

[Indischer]

Exactly !!! I am constantly amused by the hordes who clamor to proclaim British 'morality'. ....or their sense of fair play.

Your amusement is misplaced. Nobody's saying the British were morally superior than Indians or had a greater sense of fair play than Indians. It's in comparison against the likes of Stalinist-USSR, Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan that they come out better on such indicators.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

See my post above, can you unite the entire country through violence? Hindus are culturally/religiously non-violent. Getting an army to fight is one thing. Asking an entire country to take up arms is another. I prefer the Gandhian way which moved the entire country over the Netaji's which had limited effect. Reason is not that I dislike violence, but that I prefer a way in which entire country could participate.

LOL. In case you haven't realised, Gandhi split the country into 3 parts. (not that I am complaining)

Hindus are just like any other people. They are non violent and can be violent sometimes. We are not magical elves. ....... or super evolved mutants.

Netaji asking the entire nation to take up arms is a strawman. I am sure that is why he raised his own army. The entire nation participates when they support any army. INA or the Indian Army.

This course of action, as you can deduce with common sense, can only work on certain opponents under certain conditions. Against British yeah. Against Pakistan, Nazis or imperial Japanese (not equating the three!)?

I get it. British were a super evolved race with a fine sense of "Morality" and "ethics" which could be moved with Non Violence. ...... not like those barbarians nazi'z and japs eh ?

Did Jesus too recommend non violence against such 'refined' enemies ?

I am sure Netaji didn't bank on the strategic stupidity of Hitler. And Hitler's defeat means Netaji's defeat, cause the allied forces didn't seem to be in any mood to forgive the remnants.

Netaji banked on the reluctance of Indians to fight fellow Indians. He relied on the Indian soldiers in the British army refusing to shoot other patriotic Indians. He relied on wearing down their loyalty to the British crown. Guess what ? It worked.

That is what I meant by throwing him out. Leaving him no other honourable way to stay, with his policies intact. And that is justified. I admire Gandhi for reaching to masses, to make this an struggle of entire country, which wan't possible for any other leader, atleast till then.

I too admire Gandhi for his ability to reach out to the entire country and understand it and then motivate it. He was a great leader, no doubt. However that does not take away the contribution of Netaji in getting Independence to India.

Your amusement is misplaced. Nobody's saying the British were morally superior than Indians or had a greater sense of fair play than Indians. It's in comparison against the likes of Stalinist-USSR, Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan that they come out better on such indicators.

As my above post will show, my mirth is not misplaced. Neither do the Brits emerge better than the Nazi's or the Japs. Brits enslaved, exploited and humiliated half the world. It really has no competition in human history. It was the Brits who started the modern slave trade too......another feather in their bonnet.

Well said . Though, I still say that his actions, highly selfish as they were, weren't genocidal. He put Britaian's interests far above those of Indians, but he still believed that "Indians are fit to be ruled by the white man". Not "Indians ought to be eliminated".

You are referring the same Churchill who raged that it was Indians own fault for "breeding like rabbits" and who, at other times, said the plague was "merrily" culling the population (India's). ???

Clearly he was not genocidal

 

[aakash_2410]

Other freedom fighters such as Netaji, Bhagat Singh, Patel, Lala, Tilak and so on definitely deserve more credit and I am not a fan of over rated Nehru-Gandhi family. Nehru definitely did take some wrong decisions but saying that he betrayed Netaji would not be fair.

They all had the same goal, although their paths were different. I highly doubt that Nehru or Congressian (Not todays Congressis) for that matter would have betrayed any freedom fighter.

 

[Indischer]

When one goes around shouting 'green revolution....green revolution', its a safe bet that its propaganda Its not enough to talk about objectivity, you have to demonstrate it by rational observations and conclusions. Not parrot propaganda as views.

LOL. Your ignorance shines through again. The trials of the INA heroes and the stories of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, as well as the stories of INA's fight during the siege of Imphal were already in the public-eye at the time. It is these stores that inspired the mutiny in the Indian british army, navy and airforce. India navy ratings went around Bombay on 19th and 20th Feb 1946, in lorries, holding aloft tricolor flags and the picture of Subhash Chandra Bose ....... ....and you say Bose had no impact.

The Gurkhas in karachi refused to fire on striking sailors. The strike soon spread to other parts of India. The personals in Calcutta, Madras, Karachi and Vizag also went on strike with the slogans "Strike for Bombay", "Release 11,000 INA prisoners" and "Jai Hind".

This Munity that was a repeat of 1857, except this time the Sikh and the Gurkhas were against the British too. British left India because they had NO choice. They could never rule India without the Indian soldiers obeying their orders ....and thanks to Netaji, the Indian soldiers loyalty had shifted to India and Indians and not to British.

Of the 2.4 million INDIAN soilders who were involved in the World war, only 2.4 lakh died. Which is around 10%. The rest of the 90% of the battle hardened troops had come back to India. Brits did not want them to join the Mutineer. ........guess what would have happened if they had ?

As to Atlee's victory, it had nothing to do with his promise of granting Independence to india ....what a hilarious and absurd assumption.


LOL. This picture was a propaganda piece by one of pappu supporter. I keep it to remind me and others about the power of propaganda and how fragile it can be when faced with an intelligent observer.

1. It's much more stupid if one goes around saying "Green Revolution is a Propaganda" without understanding what exactly happened that prompted it to be called a Revolution.

2. You can do away with accessing me and stick to the topic. Don't let your bad manners shine through.

3. Please provide links to back up your claims that there was a serous mutiny amongst the Indian soldiers. There was widespread protests to pardon the soldiers of the AHF, and it was duly met by the British.

4. And guess what happened when those battle-hardened soldiers returned back to India, they did not join any mutiny! India was well on her way to freedom, due in large part to Ganghiji and parties like INC and ML.

For the last time, I am not suggesting there were no followers of Netaji in India. But while Netaji and Gandhiji had the same goals, their paths differed markedly, and Gandhiji was able to mobilize far many people who embraced his ideology than Netaji. While Netaji was constantly on the run from the British, Gandhiji was constantly In Their Face, urging them to harm him and incur the wrath of the masses.

As my above post will show, my mirth is not misplaced. Neither do the Brits emerge better than the Nazi's or the Japs. Brits enslaved, exploited and humiliated half the world. It really has no competition in human history. It was the Brits who started the modern slave trade too......another feather in their bonnet.



You are referring the same Churchill who raged that it was Indians own fault for "breeding like rabbits" and who, at other times, said the plague was "merrily" culling the population (India's). ???

Clearly he was not genocidal

And who exactly is disputing that that they weren't conquerers?? My question is, in 200 years, they did not indulge in ethnic cleansing on our subcontinent, nor did they indulge in ethnic cleansing in Africa or America. Compare that to a Nazi Germany which killed 6 million jews in 6 years of the War, and the Japanese who took pride in their work in Nanking!

We wanted the British out, but do we need the other two in?? That is the crux, please don't go off tangent in your reply.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

1. It's much more stupid if one goes around saying "Green Revolution is a Propaganda" without understanding what exactly happened that prompted it to be called a Revolution.

Ya. Parliament has acknowledging that a total of 100,000 farmers have committed suicide between 1993-2003.

3. Please provide links to back up your claims that there was a serous mutiny amongst the Indian soldiers. There was widespread protests to pardon the soldiers of the AHF, and it was duly met by the British.

You can start with wikipedia. Royal Indian Navy mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. And guess what happened when those battle-hardened soldiers returned back to India, they did not join any mutiny! India was well on her way to freedom, due in large part to Ganghiji and parties like INC and ML.

No. There was no need. The British were smart enough (and weak enough) to read the writing on the wall. Thanks to Hitler.

For the last time, I am not suggesting there were no followers of Netaji in India. But while Netaji and Gandhiji had the same goals, their paths differed markedly, and Gandhiji was able to mobilize far many people who embraced his ideology than Netaji. While Netaji was constantly on the run from the British, Gandhiji was constantly In Their Face, urging them to harm him and incur the wrath of the masses.

LOL. Gandhi did not have any unique ideology. Morality and Non Violence is as old as mankind itself.

What he did was demonstrate courage to practice it and inspire others to follow it by leading by example. That is exactly what Netaji did too. Lead by example, except it was using morality and armed struggle, which too is as old as mankind.

The reality is that it was the combined effort that got us Independence in 1947.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

And who exactly is disputing that that they weren't conquerers?? My question is, in 200 years, they did not indulge in ethnic cleansing on our subcontinent, nor did they indulge in ethnic cleansing in Africa or America. Compare that to a Nazi Germany which killed 6 million jews in 6 years of the War, and the Japanese who took pride in their work in Nanking!

We wanted the British out, but do we need the other two in?? That is the crux, please don't go off tangent in your reply.

You want to compare Germans killing 6 million jews in 6 years to British killing 5 million Indians in 1 year of bengal famine ? LOL........all the best. Do I get to add the other Indians who died of poverty and starvation in places where there was no famine ?


BTW ...here is a small sample of education that is available on the net about British cleansing.

Not his finest hour: The dark side of Winston Churchill - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

"Hussein Onyango Obama is unusual among Churchill's victims only in one respect: his story has been rescued from the slipstream of history, because his grandson ended up as President of the US. Churchill believed that Kenya's fertile highlands should be the preserve of the white settlers, and approved the clearing out of the local "blackamoors". He saw the local Kikuyu as "brutish children". When they rebelled under Churchill's post-war premiership, some 150,000 of them were forced at gunpoint into detention camps – later dubbed "Britain's gulag" by Pulitzer-prize winning historian, Professor Caroline Elkins. She studied the detention camps for five years for her remarkable book Britain's Gulag: The Brutal End of Empire in Kenya, explains the tactics adopted under Churchill to crush the local drive for independence. "Electric shock was widely used, as well as cigarettes and fire," she writes. "The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects." Hussein Onyango Obama never truly recovered from the torture he endured."

 

[vicky sen]

This is politics not some joke. If you have a ceremonial job but not real strength, it's time for you to leave. (who asked you to reply to my post?)

If u dont like being replied to, plz dont post.

 

[Indischer]

1. Ya. Parliament has acknowledging that a total of 100,000 farmers have committed suicide between 1993-2003.



2. You can start with wikipedia. Royal Indian Navy mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



3. No. There was no need. The British were smart enough (and weak enough) to read the writing on the wall. Thanks to Hitler.



4. LOL. Gandhi did not have any unique ideology. Morality and Non Violence is as old as mankind itself.

What he did was demonstrate courage to practice it and inspire others to follow it by leading by example. That is exactly what Netaji did too. Lead by example, except it was using morality and armed struggle, which too is as old as mankind.

5. The reality is that it was the combined effort that got us Independence in 1947.

1. The growers committing suicide is due to failure of Government to act as a buffer against the vagaries of monsoons, middlemen and market price fluctuations eating away at their profit margins. How many cases of death by starvation have been recorded so far since the 1970s?

2. The RIN mutiny failed because it did not have the political backing of Gandhiji and INC. To me at least, this suggests that Gandhiji's support mattered much more for a rebellion against the British to have popular support.

3. The notion of the superiority of the White Man lay in ruins in along with his cities by the end of WW-2. Many in British had understood that it was also morally wrong to hold on to their colonial possessions and yet fight for their own freedom against a fellow white man. The Labour Party was vocal about it's intention to relieve Britian from her affairs in the subcontinent if they came to power. The mood of Britain can be gauged by the fact that they won the elections. And No, it wasn't Netaji who was known to the average British voter as the beacon of Indian independence struggle, but Gandhiji.

4. So, did Netaji have a unique ideology in making a Faustian deal with the Devil?

5. Good to know that you've scaled back from your previous stance that we got independence only because of Netaji.

 

[vicky sen]

1.) What the topic have to do with India defense section?

2.) Its all gas and propaganda of BJP who even betrayed Lord Ram they have said that "Ram lala hum ayenge, mandir wahi banaange" but nothing happened after that. As they know its a case in the court they just milk the emotion of public and got power.

1) remind me next time 2 post it in Pakistan Defence section.
2) BJP wasnt born in 1940s and neither is it related to the topic.

So keep your emotions to yourself!!

 

[Indischer]

You want to compare Germans killing 6 million jews in 6 years to British killing 5 million Indians in 1 year of bengal famine ? LOL........all the best. Do I get to add the other Indians who died of poverty and starvation in places where there was no famine ?


BTW ...here is a small sample of education that is available on the net about British cleansing.

Not his finest hour: The dark side of Winston Churchill - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

"Hussein Onyango Obama is unusual among Churchill's victims only in one respect: his story has been rescued from the slipstream of history, because his grandson ended up as President of the US. Churchill believed that Kenya's fertile highlands should be the preserve of the white settlers, and approved the clearing out of the local "blackamoors". He saw the local Kikuyu as "brutish children". When they rebelled under Churchill's post-war premiership, some 150,000 of them were forced at gunpoint into detention camps – later dubbed "Britain's gulag" by Pulitzer-prize winning historian, Professor Caroline Elkins. She studied the detention camps for five years for her remarkable book Britain's Gulag: The Brutal End of Empire in Kenya, explains the tactics adopted under Churchill to crush the local drive for independence. "Electric shock was widely used, as well as cigarettes and fire," she writes. "The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects." Hussein Onyango Obama never truly recovered from the torture he endured."

You mean to say apathy towards famine is the same as Genocide? How about deaths due to Wars initiated by the Nazis and Japanese then? What about deaths due to malnutition, freezing etc in countries occupied by the Nazi and Japs? What about deaths due to hideous experiments made on people in the name of science by the Nazis and Japs?

"Britain's gulag" - I wonder why the dastardly action of the Brits is being compared to a Soviet gulag. is it because the Soviet actions, like that of the Nazis, are being seen as more vicious and hideous by many around the World, and that Britain descending to their level is shameful?

 

[vicky sen]

Other freedom fighters such as Netaji, Bhagat Singh, Patel, Lala, Tilak and so on definitely deserve more credit and I am not a fan of over rated Nehru-Gandhi family. Nehru definitely did take some wrong decisions but saying that he betrayed Netaji would not be fair.

They all had the same goal, although their paths were different. I highly doubt that Nehru or Congressian (Not todays Congressis) for that matter would have betrayed any freedom fighter.

read post No.2. Nehru did 'betray' Netaji. I emphasize on the word 'betray'.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

1. The growers committing suicide is due to failure of Government to act as a buffer against the vagaries of monsoons, middlemen and market price fluctuations eating away at their profit margins. How many cases of death by starvation have been recorded so far since the 1970s?

Find out about arsenic poisoning in the ground waters of India. I do not wish to digress from the topic by trashing this particular congress propaganda.

2. The RIN mutiny failed because it did not have the political backing of Gandhiji and INC. To me at least, this suggests that Gandhiji's support mattered much more for a rebellion against the British to have popular support.

LOL. The RIN mutiny forced the Brits to quite real fast. That makes it a success, not a failure. And Gandhi's shameful lack of support to them is not surprising for a man who supported the muslims killing defenseless Hindus during the Mopla rebellion. By that time Gandhi's approval had failed to matter. The Brits knew it too. Jinnah knew it too. Only you do not seem to get it.

3. The notion of the superiority of the White Man lay in ruins in along with his cities by the end of WW-2. Many in British had understood that it was also morally wrong to hold on to their colonial possessions and yet fight for their own freedom against a fellow white man. The Labour Party was vocal about it's intention to relieve Britian from her affairs in the subcontinent if they came to power. The mood of Britain can be gauged by the fact that they won the elections. And No, it wasn't Netaji who was known to the average British voter as the beacon of Indian independence struggle, but Gandhiji.

LOL. EVERYBODY knew that holding colonies and slavery was WRONG. Yet they did it for 200 years. Shit ! a 10 year old boy can figure that out.

The Labour party won on anti incumbency and due to a war weary British public who though Churchill was taking them to another war.

4. So, did Netaji have a unique ideology in making a Faustian deal with the Devil?

That is your strawman.

5. Good to know that you've scaled back from your previous stance that we got independence only because of Netaji.

Disgusting. You are now stooping to making unfounded allegations. I DARE YOU to quote me on the same.

You mean to say apathy towards famine is the same as Genocide? How about deaths due to Wars initiated by the Nazis and Japanese then? What about deaths due to malnutition, freezing etc in countries occupied by the Nazi and Japs? What about deaths due to hideous experiments made on people in the name of science by the Nazis and Japs?

"Britain's gulag" - I wonder why the dastardly action of the Brits is being compared to a Soviet gulag. is it because the Soviet actions, like that of the Nazis, are being seen as more vicious and hideous by many around the World, and that Britain descending to their level is shameful?

It was not 'apathy' but a willful diverting of food to cull the population that reportedly 'bred like rabbits' after creating the famine in the first place.

In any case, I do not care much for "intentions", only results matter to me. I do not care under what 'guise' Indians or jews were killed, only they were killed. And those who were responsible for those killings were evil.

Do you want to talk about the WARS started by the British in India, in Africa ? in the USA ? in rest of the world ? Do you want to talk about the deaths there ? the wiping out of the entire race of "Red Indians" ? The Nazi's do not even come anywhere close.

The cold war subsequent to the WW2 spun out enough propaganda to sustain you for a lifetime. Come back to me when you get smart enough to look beyond those propaganda. USSR evil, US UK good ......LOL.