Need help regarding Child Adoption

[Dubious]

However, I don't get what's the issue with this Mehram stuff? I mean we don't impose strict Islamic rules on our normal lives when it comes to relations with cousins, they daily visit our homes and our female members just treat them as their brothers without any fuss. Same goes with uncles, aunts etc.

Uncle and aunts are mahram

2ndly it is to protect the child from perverts....No perv has it written on his forehead that he is a perv! Have you read any stories of the foster systems in America, what the orphans face? From verbal, sexual and physical abuse to psychological abuses....

Plus the child is considered an amanat and you need to protect their rights...

But like you said in your family it isnt counted...In my family, I even use headscarf with cousins...Not coz any of them would be perv but ONLY because ALLAH told me they are not mahram....I dont need to justify it...Its my choice...My other cousins dont do alot of things so it is our choice ...no one is better than the other except in terms of deeds....

Why imposing strict rules just on adopted kids?

Its to protect their rights ...also to protect "some perverted people" from perverted taught...I dont know about you....There ARE weird idiots who do weird things to their biological children....

One should either follow these Islamic rules on every way of life, or ignore them completely. Why this selective approach?

Well, I ONLY gave you what the book stated I dont know how your "every way of life" is....

Like my wife can meet her cousins, uncles but has to breast feed an adopted child to make him mehram. Similarly, my daughter can study in university alongside Na-Mehram boys and get frank with her cousins, but she has to stay away from his so called brother just because he was adopted.

Well, if your family doesnt follow the "everyday" rules than DEFINITELY you shouldnt treat your adopted any different!

Sorry but I'm not able to digest this. We're living in 21st century.

And sadly in the same century there is the word incest, the psychological, physical, sexual and even emotional abuses to own flesh and blood (biological children) let alone one who has lost both his/ her parents...Bearing such abuses will be amplified....

Again like I said if YOU dont practice it than dont impose it on the adopted child BUT if you do follow it (like me) than the adopted child should be treated no different

Sorry adoption is strictly forbidden by Islam.

Please show me from the quran coz quran doesnt FORBID it...If quran forbade it, it wouldnt say to give them their original name! It would say no it is not allowed so the case of the original dad's name never arises! Do you EVER use your brain?

“Nor has He (Allâh) made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But God tells the truth, and He shows the way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is better in the sight of God”. (33:5)

Allah also said DO NOT ADD into Islam that which is not there! If adoption was "FORBIDDEN" than you wont have to worry about calling them from their dad's name!

Common sense!

The only thing implied in the Quran is the biological lineage!

Islam seeks to safeguard biological lineage and not confuse lineage.

Source: Need help regarding Child Adoption | Page 4

ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW knows best and that is why RASOOL SAW was stopped by ALLAH from calling Hazrat ZAID RA his son.@Akhelios

Yes but did ALLAH say throw Zaid out of the home? Disown him? NO Zaid to date is called the ADOPTED SON of Rasool ALLAH!

@Jazzbot brother, I have done a bit of reading on it...

You see my parents are old and none of my siblings are married...We told them to get adopted children, some orphan will get a home and my parents some happiness...If I dont get married (at the way things are looking might be) I wish to adopt a set of twins a boy and a girl coz I cant make up my mind which one I would want.....and hence why I have managed to read up a bit on this

 

[Zarvan]

Uncle and aunts are mahram

2ndly it is to protect the child from perverts....No perv has it written on his forehead that he is a perv! Have you read any stories of the foster systems in America, what the orphans face? From verbal, sexual and physical abuse to psychological abuses....

Plus the child is considered an amanat and you need to protect their rights...

But like you said in your family it isnt counted...In my family, I even use headscarf with cousins...Not coz any of them would be perv but ONLY because ALLAH told me they are not mahram....I dont need to justify it...Its my choice...My other cousins dont do alot of things so it is our choice ...no one is better than the other except in terms of deeds....


Its to protect their rights ...also to protect "some perverted people" from perverted taught...I dont know about you....There ARE weird idiots who do weird things to their biological children....


Well, I ONLY gave you what the book stated I dont know how your "every way of life" is....


Well, if your family doesnt follow the "everyday" rules than DEFINITELY you shouldnt treat your adopted any different!


And sadly in the same century there is the word incest, the psychological, physical, sexual and even emotional abuses to own flesh and blood (biological children) let alone one who has lost both his/ her parents...Bearing such abuses will be amplified....

Again like I said if YOU dont practice it than dont impose it on the adopted child BUT if you do follow it (like me) than the adopted child should be treated no different


Please show me from the quran coz quran doesnt FORBID it...If quran forbade it, it wouldnt say to give them their original name! It would say no it is not allowed so the case of the original dad's name never arises! Do you EVER use your brain?

“Nor has He (Allâh) made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But God tells the truth, and He shows the way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is better in the sight of God”. (33:5)

Allah also said DO NOT ADD into Islam that which is not there! If adoption was "FORBIDDEN" than you wont have to worry about calling them from their dad's name!

Common sense!

The only thing implied in the Quran is the biological lineage!



Source: Need help regarding Child Adoption | Page 4


Yes but did ALLAH say throw Zaid out of the home? Disown him? NO Zaid to date is called the ADOPTED SON of Rasool ALLAH!

@Jazzbot brother, I have done a bit of reading on it...

You see my parents are old and none of my siblings are married...We told them to get adopted children, some orphan will get a home and my parents some happiness...If I dont get married (at the way things are looking might be) I wish to adopt a set of twins a boy and a girl coz I cant make up my mind which one I would want.....and hence why I have managed to read up a bit on this

He is not adopted son those who call him adopted son of RASOOL SAW are denying what ALLAH said. Taking care of orphans is encouraged providing them with best facilities but you can't give them your name from day one you have to call them from there father's name. Quran has clearly forbidden it go read the orders.

 

[Dubious]

He is not adopted son those who call him adopted son of RASOOL SAW are denying what ALLAH said.

What did ALLAH say? Use his dad's name...Yea we all use it....Does ALLAH say dont call him "adopted" ?

If adoption is FORBIDDEN...than why is ALLAH joking with us telling us that maintain the biological lineage....Why does one need to maintain it if no one will adopt them?

Why is ALLAH telling us this?

d. Taking care of orphans is encouraged providing them with best facilities but you can't give them your name from day one you have to call them from there father's name. Quran has clearly forbidden it go read the orders.

So when am I asking to give the name? I wrote it clearly in my 1st post and you as usual either didnt understand or cant read proper English!

I wrote few points: Cant give the name, pardah and inheritance!

Learn English first before responding I have NO time to teach someone who is stuck at 1 point which has been highlighted 3x already!


If you think by not giving your name it means not to adopt than I seriously think you are a fool!

2ndly, you think ALLAH is cruel to leave a child unloved when he/ she has lost his / her family just coz people like you cant phantom adoption?

 

[Jazzbot]

@Akheilos @Zarvan

I don't if you guys are familiar about it, but this is yet another prime example of adoption. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was son of first caliph Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a), adopted by Ali (r.a) and was raised alongside Hassan & Hussain (r.a). Till date he is known as Muhammad bin Abu Bakr, with name of his real father.

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos @Zarvan

I don't if you guys are familiar about it, but this is yet another prime example of adoption. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was son of first caliph Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a), adopted by Ali (r.a) and was raised alongside Hassan & Hussain (r.a). Till date he is known as Muhammad bin Abu Bakr, with name of his real father.

He seems to be either trolling or not grasping that one can adopt while keeping the biological dad's name...

 

[Zarvan]

He seems to be either trolling or not grasping that one can adopt while keeping the biological dad's name...

There is no issue if you are taking care of orphan and it's you who are not comprehending order of ALLAH. ALLAH has shown great anger on this issue you go and read Quran again

"...Nor has He made your adopted sons your (biological) sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers; that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if you know not their father's (names, call them) your brothers in faith, or your trustees. But there is no blame on you if you make a mistake therein. (What counts is) the intention of your hearts. And Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful."

See Also: Adoption - About.com Main Resource Page

(Qur'an 33:4-5)

 

[Dubious]

has shown great anger

Allah is not a human.... I never said what you are implying go back and read my posts....Prophet also said dont jump to conclusions while ALLAH said dont accuse one of something they never did!

There is no issue if you are taking care of orphan and it's you who are not comprehending order of ALLAH. ALLAH has shown great anger on this issue you go and read Quran again

"...Nor has He made your adopted sons your (biological) sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers; that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if you know not their father's (names, call them) your brothers in faith, or your trustees. But there is no blame on you if you make a mistake therein. (What counts is) the intention of your hearts. And Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful."

See Also: Adoption - About.com Main Resource Page

(Qur'an 33:4-5)

I already posted this ayat! THAT is why I said GO READ!

 

[Zarvan]

• 
  An adopted child retains his or her own biological family name (surname) and does not change his or her name to match that of the adoptive family.

• An adopted child inherits from his or her biological parents, not automatically from the adoptive parents.
• When the child is grown, members of the adoptive family are not considered blood relatives, and are therefore not muhrimto him or her. "Muhrim" refers to a specific legal relationship that regulates marriage and other aspects of life. Essentially, members of the adoptive family would be permissible as possible marriage partners, and rules of modesty exist between the grown child and adoptive family members of the opposite sex.
• If the child is provided with property/wealth from the biological family, adoptive parents are commanded to take care and not intermingle that property/wealth with their own. They serve merely as trustees.

Allah is not a human.... I never said what you are implying go back and read my posts....Prophet also said dont jump to conclusions while ALLAH said dont accuse one of something they never did!


I already posted this ayat! THAT is why I said GO READ!

Go study again I do it daily

 

[Dubious]

Go study again I do it daily

FOR GODFORSAKE SCROLL UP READ WHAT I WROTE AND GET LOST!

 

[PoKeMon]

@Jazzbot

Hats off to you and your family dear.

I would like to suggest that dont go for Edhi foundation. The reason being they are doing well and if they have a child, I can assume the child will have a better life than many other not so lucky kids. Go for those unlucky kids.

Make sure you take care of the kid just like your own.

 

[Zarvan]

FOR GODFORSAKE SCROLL UP READ WHAT I WROTE AND GET LOST!

I have read it and I have read the issue of adoption in detail. You really need to re read the issue.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

@Raja.Pakistani Nobody in Pakistan calls someone as "ibn e falan" or "bint e falan". Child is called by his own name; name of the parents is limited to the identification and school documents and NADRA database of families. And as soon as you marry a new family number is assigned to you with linkage to your father's family. So the question of stealing or hiding child's lineage is redundant here, but the continuous rhetoric that child needs to be reminded from day one that he is adopted, I don't agree with that, there is an age when you talk serious stuff with your children.

• For inheritance it is clearly mentioned in Surah Nisa verse 11 that "Will of the deceased" and debt settling take priority over all other claims and shares, so it is wise to write your will when you are breathing and have your senses working

• Mehram and Na Mehram you really want to discuss this? Come on look around you and then tell me if worrying about this concept is more important today or teaching and grooming that child in a way that he respects and acts like a gentleman is more important. If you are not preparing your children for how to save themselves from the Pakistani society then you are not a good parent. Rest I don't know about others but I have an adopted female in my extended family and none of us males have ever thought less then considering her as our own sister and daughter. For us Sooch ki Pakeezgi aur Nigah ki Haya is more important than thinking that she is not related to us a Non mehram.

I was just explaining Islamic point of views about adoption and how its implications and legal consequences differ with procedure of adoption being practice in western countries. If you want to follow your own reasoning and logic then you are free to do so but Islam is very clear on this matter

1) adopted child carry the family/surname of the adoptive parent in west i.e if he was John Black before adoption then he will become John Smith after adoption if he was adopted by Mr/Mrs Smith and if this adoption took place when he was infant then he will never even know the existence of his real parent if they are alive. Now Islam reject this and say that children must be called by the name of their real fathers irrespective of who adopt them as according to Islam adoption should not end the blood relationship between parent and kids or kids and his real siblings if they are alive. This verse is very clear about it

Nor has He (Allâh) made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But God tells the truth, and He shows the way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is better in the sight of God”. (33:5)

2) When you legally adopt a kid in west then the rules of intestacy will automatically entitle an adopted child to be treated of equal standing to a biological child of a deceased adoptive parent while the right of inheritance is based on uterine relationship in Islam and only relatives with a legitimate blood relationship to the deceased are automatically entitled to inherit. We are talking about cases where a person get sudden death or die without leaving a valid will or other binding declaration but Islamic law give this discretion to adoptive parent to write up to one-third of their assets for their adopted child or for whoever they wish.
“Those related by blood are more entitled to (inherit from) each other in the Book of Allah.” (8:75)

3) We modern people of 21th century can mock this concept of Mahrum or Na Mahrum but its there for certain reasons as it tell you who are those na mharum relatives whom you can marry beside observing this purdah/Hijab. We can even consider our cousins like our sisters but Islam give you this right to marry with them so they are still na mahrum for us even if you treat them like sisters or your dil or damag is saaf /clean and blah blah so even if parent treat adopted kid like their biological son/daughters but child is still a non-Mahram to members of the adoptive family and thats where it differ to western procedure of legal adoption where such marriage between adopted kid with members of adoptive family will not be a valid

 

[Dubious]

I have read it

my post or your ego? Coz if you have read my post why are you going in circles?

 

[Zarvan]

@Raja.Pakistani

• Nobody in Pakistan calls someone as "ibn e falan" or "bint e falan". Child is called by his own name; name of the parents is limited to the identification and school documents and NADRA database of families. And as soon as you marry a new family number is assigned to you with linkage to your father's family. So the question of stealing or hiding child's lineage is redundant here, but the continuous rhetoric that child needs to be reminded from day one that he is adopted, I don't agree with that, there is an age when you talk serious stuff with your children.

• For inheritance it is clearly mentioned in Surah Nisa verse 11 that "Will of the deceased" and debt settling take priority over all other claims and shares, so it is wise to write your will when you are breathing and have your senses working

• Mehram and Na Mehram you really want to discuss this? Come on look around you and then tell me if worrying about this concept is more important today or teaching and grooming that child in a way that he respects and acts like a gentleman is more important. If you are not preparing your children for how to save themselves from the Pakistani society then you are not a good parent. Rest I don't know about others but I have an adopted female in my extended family and none of us males have ever thought less then considering her as our own sister and daughter. For us Sooch ki Pakeezgi aur Nigah ki Haya is more important than thinking that she is not related to us a Non mehram.

Pakistani school age for children these days is two years. Three well no problem, 4 oh he is late.

Even in Pakistan last name stands for parent. You can't give your adopted son your name weather as bin or last name. Sorry you have to call them with their father's name. Sorry Mehram and Na Mehram are still equally important you need to decide on following Islam or not following Islam. Sorry what ever your relation with your cousin ALLAH made the rules and he knows better than you

 

[I.R.A]

Even in Pakistan last name stands for parent. You can't give your adopted son your name weather as bin or last name. Sorry you have to call them with their father's name. Sorry Mehram and Na Mehram are still equally important you need to decide on following Islam or not following Islam. Sorry what ever your relation with your cousin ALLAH made the rules and he knows better than you

I said already the legal documents don't include guardian's name as that child's father name, may be as guardian but not as father.

And for Mehram Na Mehram I won't argue any more because in a Muslim society where Muslim males kidnap a girl and rape her for more than four months and make videos of it does not in any way deserve to pass fatwa whether female adopted by my family is mehram or na mehram, for us it is sufficient that she feels safe with us. I hope you see the bigger picture.