Navy to buy seven submarines

[Tomahawk]

Below is the pictorial representation of U-214, U-212 and U-209 inner space arrangement.

 

[pakistantiger]

nuthing wrong in getting french subs beside kick backs why not Navy go for U boats first then Chinese and then go to french subs
3 u-214
3 merlien
4 yuan class
and 3 agosta 90b and produce more at home
The first way is to go with U-214 bcause merlien is on the drawing not even a proto type sub is floating in the sea it will took at least 10 years to come in pakistani waters go for german and then chinese and then french the better way to increase technology and numbers good luck PN

 

[Comet]

4-6 U-214 and 6-8 Agosta .... just these two would be enough.

 

[pakistantiger]

yes 6-8 u-214 and 8-10 agostas while get some chinese as wel n gett assitance in buliding nuclear subs

 

[Mani2020]

Part may also be negotiation tactics: looming chinese and french sub deal(s) would put pressure on the Germans and vv.

Dun thnk so that germans will b pressurized coz india is there to buy these from germany ....india always try to block each and every single sale to PAK ...For germany it will not cost even a single dollar as the buyers are just changed/replaced rest is same

 

[Mani2020]

Taimikhan
And if we look at the number of submarines being bought, it means PN is compromising on the quality like the U-214s, and going for a larger number of subs to counter growing Indian fleet.

sir u have to have quality as well...only quantity doesnt matter ...wat will u do with quantity if they are not capable...it is as same as if my opponent buys 20 Heavy bikes and to compete with him i will buy 15 Pakhero Honda 70cc rather than buying 10 the of same class....i dun thnk this is the case and if it is thn just can laugh and curse

 

[TaimiKhan]

sir u have to have quality as well...only quantity doesnt matter ...wat will u do with quantity if they are not capable...it is as same as if my opponent buys 20 Heavy bikes and to compete with him i will buy 15 Pakhero Honda 70cc rather than buying 10 the of same class....i dun thnk this is the case and if it is thn just can laugh and curse

First of all, if you look at the reported combo, its a hi-medium combination that PN is going, as time has now come that we increase our sub fleet and keep on doing so with passage of time, as surface vessels are very prone to hits & vulnerable compared to submarines.

3 merlins make the hi end and 4 yuans will make the medium tech.

Personally, i believe by end of next decade, we need atleast 10 active subs ready to go into the waters at a moments notice. 8-10 large surface combatants, and equal number of subs.

And wht the 70cc can do, a heavy bike can't do & vice versa.

 

[Bull]

3 Merlins, 3 Agosta and 4-5 yuans is still a decent deterrant against 2 Akulas, 1 Arihant, 6 Kilo, 4 U-209 and 6 Scorpenes.

But ay more fresh orders by IN would tilt it heavily in favour of India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This reminds me of Jliu who3-4 yrs ago predicted that this might happen.I think personally that to go for a paper sub is sheer lunacy although, again what are we getting in the package, and how ha it been sweetened technologically is something to be seen.
Araz

Jliu's argument was that the Germans would never show interest, which obviously did not turn out to be true, and the deal got as close as '95% finalized'.

We can't really be sure what is behind the delay at this point - finances, Indian pressure through the Eurofighter and its own upcoming sub tenders, GoP preferences, French incentives through systems for the JF-17 and possible nuclear cooperation ... take your pick!

 

[SU-33]

I think Pakistan won't buy U214, because Pakistan already have France submarines, and in future china will help Pakistan to produce chinese submarine by themself(as F-22P mode), so if Pakistan use three country's submarine will lead many problems, because Pakistan need build three different maintenance system for them, this is a very big burden.
by the way, there's an important problem, if happen war between Pakistan and India, Europe and USA will cut all support for Pakistan, at that time, Pakistan's submarine which bought from Europe maybe will lose fighting capacity.
so Pakistan must produce submarine by self in future, and china will help Pakistan(as china help Pakistan to build ship and tank), beacuse Pakistan is chinese friend. if happen war, china will support Pakistan

 

[Donatello]

I think Pakistan won't buy U214, because Pakistan already have France submarines, and in future china will help Pakistan to produce chinese submarine by themself(as F-22P mode), so if Pakistan use three country's submarine will lead many problems, because Pakistan need build three different maintenance system for them, this is a very big burden.
by the way, there's an important problem, if happen war between Pakistan and India, Europe and USA will cut all support for Pakistan, at that time, Pakistan's submarine which bought from Europe maybe will lose fighting capacity.
so Pakistan must produce submarine by self in future, and china will help Pakistan(as china help Pakistan to build ship and tank), beacuse Pakistan is chinese friend. if happen war, china will support Pakistan

I think the reason the navy issued tender for a combined 7 new Subs is the fact to draw in German, French and Chinese offers of lowes price. Maybe the Admiral is waiting on the soon to be collapsing Mr 10% government and then release the tender. Marlin is not a bad boat, but as we discussed its not a tested system and is still on the drawing board. U 214 is definitely a lethal punch and Chinese Song and Yuan class are good. But as long as Zardari is in government we cannot say anything.

 

[a1b2c145]

 

[a1b2c145]

yuan class:




022type:

 

[pakistantiger]

What is this ship

 

[maverick1977]

I am assuming that if the tender is for 7 subs then pakistan will buy 7 ships from same country. It means that 7 subs will be ither chinese, french of germans... from cost perspective if french gave us 3 agostas 90B for 1.2 billion then seven keeping same figure in mind will cost close to 2.8 billion to 3 billion $. while chinese if giving us each yuan for 230 mill will cost us 1.6 to 1.8 billions $. i am not sure about german. Thats a huge difference. it is more than 45% cost savings for a poor country like pakistan.

Now the question is, getting Yuan sub can make pakistan more flexible with what they can ask chinese. I am assuming its a modular design, then may be pakistan can request to add new module for VLS for future babur or ballistic missiles?

Western countries will never allow pakistan VLS modules for their subs ???

Based on these assumptions pakistan should go for chinese subs for third tier nuclear strike capability.