NATO invites Montenegro to join: 'Not a threat to anybody,'

[proka89]

That is what you want to believe rather than admit your own ignorance about your own country and/or admit that you have confirmation bias, if you're ignorant then you should't have said this:

Ignorance about my own country? You really are quite insolent. This all started with you claiming multiple times how Serbia is Russian puppet. I gave you multiple facts, which show how our cooperation with US, NATO and EU is highly developed economically, politically and even in case of military. And you couldn't dispute none of those facts so you called them cherry picking, but on the other hand you do not give one fact whatsoever which supports your claim. That is just pathetic, and all this spinning, you are doing only proves that you don't have arguments. Did Russia ordered Serbia to sign IPAP, to join EU, to participate in 22 NATO military exercises in 2015?

I am doing it? Since when "cherry picking" is not ignoring any facts? That's the opposite of it.

Trough whole this discussion you are ignoring facts, and that is your only tactic, because you have nothing. You can't dispute not a single thing i wrote here, and you failed to bring any arguments to the table. Here i am asking you one more time to provide us your own arguments that are not cherry picked, and which will prove that Serbia is Russian puppet.

Slovenia and Croatia Pushing for Montenegro's NATO Membership
Croatia PM Urges NATO to Admit Montenegro
Kitarović: Hrvatska snažno za CG u NATO-u
Common visit to Montenegro by Romanian Minister of Foreign Affairs Bogdan Aurescu and counterparts from Poland, Croatia and Hungary
Croatia and Poland advocate sending NATO invitation to Montenegro
Croatia claims Montenegro will receive NATO invitation in December

Anyway you keep forcing it, I guess you don't understand that decisions of organization is made in their own headquarters like any goverment and ministry operates.

So supporting membership of another country is now example of Croatia setting a course of action. LOL. NATO is lead by large powerful countries, and its purpose is to protect interests of those countries. Just like EU. And i am sorry that i have to break your illusions, but in organizations like that, countries like Serbia and Croatia, and your interest are insignificant. You may delude yourself that Croatia is equal to US, Germany, France, UK,.. but the truth is that nobody gives a shit about interests of countries like ours. You gave your free will in exchange for protection of superpowers. And same is happening to Serbia on our road to EU, we are not Russian puppets, but we are on road to become puppet state with the same masters like Croatia. Do you maybe think that everyone consulted Croatia before deciding to put Russia under sanctions? Do you believe that Bulgarians were overjoyed to block the South stream project? And not long after that, we hear that North stream will be doubled. Maybe you are not all so equal as you think?

Some of them did, but is my country at fault? No. Is my country responsible that someone got shot and ISIS or Al Nusra took weapons from their corpse or position? No.

Yes and we are all naive like a two year old kids.

Don't oversimplify it, again.

You must know that Croatia has border disputes with pretty much every neighbour except Hungary and with Slovenia about depositors savings and damages to HEP were won this year even though former is a victory with bitter taste sadly.

The main objective of the Croatian foreign policy is positioning within the EU institutions and in the region, cooperation with NATO partners and strengthening multilateral and bilateral cooperation.

That is just a bunch of empty words. I asked you to give me example of something else, and you gave nothing like usual.

Why should I in the first place when Croatia is a part of those organizattions because of common interest which you simply can not understand thus you label a country that follow and agree's with decisions as "puppet state" despite participating and supporting those decisions in the first place.

Croatia is part of EU and NATO, Croatia is in essence the EU and NATO.

Already replied previously in this post. Croatia is just a small pawn on a chess board, just like all other small countries in EU and NATO. And when large countries from those organization decide to do something, nobody gives a damn, what Croatia thinks about that.

You're wrong because you cherry picked again and you understood it the way you wanted it... LOL

Ukupni je hrvatski robni izvoz u razdoblju od siječnja do listopada poskočio 12 posto u odnosu na isto razdoblje prošle godine, pokazuju podaci Eurostata.

Hrvatski robni izvoz porastao u prvih 10 mjeseci za 10,8 posto

Exports grow far more than imports...

Your country on the other hand;
Raste deficit, uvoz prešišao izvoz
Srbija povećala izvoz za 6,6 odsto

XAXAXAXAXA

Again proving that you know nothing:

BEOGRAD - Ukupna spoljnotrgovinska robna razmena Republike Srbije od januara do avgusta bila je oko 18,62 milijarde evra, što je za 7,2 odsto više nego u istom periodu prethodne godine.

Iskazano u dolarima, vrednost spoljnotrovinske robne razmene za osam meseci je iznosila 20,7 milijardi dolara i za 12,5 odsto je veća nego za osam meseci 2014, objavio je Republički zavod za statistiku (RZS).

Izvoz robe, izražen u evrima, imao je vrednost od 7,9 milijardi, i to je povećanje od devet odsto u poređenju sa istim periodom prethodne godine.

Uvoz robe imao je vrednost od 10,6 milijardi evra, što predstavlja povećanje od 5,9 odsto u odnosu na isti period prošle godine.

Deficit iznosi 2,7 milijardi evra, što je smanjenje od 2,2 odsto u poređenju sa istim periodom prethodne godine.

Pokrivenost uvoza izvozom je 74,7 odsto i veća je od pokrivenosti u istom periodu prethodne godine, kada je iznosila 72,6 odsto.

TANJUG | RZS: Spoljnotrgovinska razmena Srbije je 18,62 milijarde evra

Export growth 9%
Import growth 5.9%
And what is really important is coverage of imports by exports. In case of Serbia it is 74.7%, and in case of Croatia around 61%.

And i guess that you taking data for the 10 months of 2015 in case of Croatia, and than for the first three months in case of Serbia, is not cherry picking?

By the way i never denied that Serbia is a poor country

 

[Penguin]

sure, lets see what happens at the ballot box but Unfortunately for Serbs in Montenegro, they do not get to break off a chunk and start their own little country like Albanians in Kosovo. The Djukanovic government however is no less corrupt than the Thaci criminal enterprise in Kosovo. The only thing propping up Djuki's little fiefdom up is tourism and a lot of that is Russian. We'll see how well he does at the polls if the foreign tourist dollars start drying up.

Indeed. Why woud a referendum be needed, when the legitimate elected government has chosen this course, with approval of the parliament, and is up for elections next year? Just because Russia demands it?

As for the Serbs in Montenegro: they are in Montenegro, not Serbia. Remember:

The status of the union between Montenegro and Serbia was decided by a referendum on Montenegrin independence on 21 May 2006. A total of 419,240 votes was cast, representing 86.5% of the total electorate. 230,661 votes (55.5%) were for independence and 185,002 votes (44.5%) were against. The 45,659 difference narrowly surpassed the 55% threshold needed to validate the referendum under the rules set by the European Union. According to the electoral commission, the 55% threshold was passed by only 2,300 votes. Serbia, the member-states of the European Union, and the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council all recognised Montenegro's independence.

As for tourism, if prices go down, tourist will come, Russian or otherwise.

Concerning the structure of overnight stays of foreign tourists, in June 2015, the most of them were realised by tourists from Russia (39.8%), Serbia (20.8%), Ukraine (4.9%), Bosnia and Herzegovina (4.1%), Kosovo (3.2%), France (2.8%), Poland (2.5%), Belarus (2.4%). Tourists from other countries realised 19.5% overnight stays.

Concerning the structure of overnight stays of foreign tourists, in July 2015, the most of them were realised by tourists from Serbia (35.6%), Russia (25.7%), Bosnia and Herzegovina (10.4%), Ukraine (3.9%), Poland (2.3%), Germany (2.0%), Kosovo (1.8%), Macedonia (1.5%). Tourists from other countries realised 16.8% overnight stays

Concerning the structure of overnight stays of foreign tourists, in August 2015, the most of them were realised by tourists from Serbia (30.6%), Russia (21.8%), Bosnia and Herzegovina (11.7%), Ukraine (3.6%), Germany (3.2%), Italy (2.9%), Poland (2.8%), Kosovo (2.6%). Tourists from other countries realised 20.8% overnight stays.

http://www.monstat.org/eng/page.php?id=1253&pageid=44

Lots of room for growth in the category ' otherwise'

 

[Dragi]

Indeed. Why woud a referendum be needed, when the legitimate elected government has chosen this course, with approval of the parliament, and is up for elections next year? Just because Russia demands it?

there will be a regularly scheduled election in 2016, and i think that's better than bullets.

As for the Serbs in Montenegro: they are in Montenegro, not Serbia. Remember:
The status of the union between Montenegro and Serbia was decided by a referendum on Montenegrin independence on 21 May 2006. A total of 419,240 votes was cast, representing 86.5% of the total electorate. 230,661 votes (55.5%) were for independence and 185,002 votes (44.5%) were against.

You don't see a double standard in your logic? Albanians in Kosovo were also "not in Albania" but were allowed to slice off a chunk of Serbia. Serb's in Bosnia are also not allowed to create a separate state. Why shouldn't the Serbs in the Blue provinces of Montenegro be allowed to join Serbia? Instead they will be forced to join NATO, an alliance that bombed and murdered their people, and be happy about it?

 

[Penguin]

there will be a regularly scheduled election in 2016, and i think that's better than bullets.

Absolutely

You don't see a double standard in your logic? Albanians in Kosovo were also "not in Albania" but were allowed to slice off a chunk of Serbia. Serb's in Bosnia are also not allowed to create a separate state. Why shouldn't the Serbs in the Blue provinces of Montenegro be allowed to join Serbia? Instead they will be forced to join NATO, an alliance that bombed and murdered their people, and be happy about it?

No and I think your comparison is a false one. The point/issue here is whether or not to join nato as a country. Not whether or not to be/remain a country.

 

[tommytrant20]

I leave without achieving fairness for both parties, despite two suspensions will join major conflict like the Cold War nuclear deterrence

 

[Dragi]

No and I think your comparison is a false one. The point/issue here is whether or not to join nato as a country. Not whether or not to be/remain a country.

there is no difference when 50% of a country finds and action by the government to be so disgusting and offensive to their beliefs and core values the next question automatically is
"should we remain a single country?"
There's 2 answers
1) if you happen to be an ethnic group that NATO feels is beneficial to their goals, then the answer is yes
2) if your seen as " too friendly to Russia", and refuse to impose sanctions, join NATO, etc. then the answer is no.

Why shouldn't the splitting up of Montenegro be on the next ballot?

 

[Penguin]

there is no difference when 50% of a country finds and action by the government to be so disgusting and offensive to their beliefs and core values the next question automatically is
"should we remain a single country?"
There's 2 answers
1) if you happen to be an ethnic group that NATO feels is beneficial to their goals, then the answer is yes
2) if your seen as " too friendly to Russia", and refuse to impose sanctions, join NATO, etc. then the answer is no.

Why shouldn't the splitting up of Montenegro be on the next ballot?

Bollocks. I don't have to fix/t my views to your two perceived options.

The next election is the next election. I'ld say, go ahead an split of.

My point is: at some point you have to accept the new arrangement that were agreed to via due process, including the Serbs in Montenegro. You can't at every turn or bump in the road start waving the 'let's split off' flag again. Or you do, and then in no time you will find yourself back in a shooting war with ethnic cleansing.

Count your blessings, live in peace

 

[Dragi]

Bollocks. I don't have to fi my views to your two perceived options.

The next election is the next election. I'ld say, go ahead an split of.

I'm not asking you to split your views on anything. I'm asking why are the 2 choices I outlined the only ones that apply to the Balkans? Anything outside those 2 choices invites threats and "bombs for peace" from NATO?
Right now the Serb half of Bosnia wants to break off, why should the Muslim half have the right to say "no, if you do that we will attack you and we'll have NATO on our side" .

My point is: at some point you have to accept the new arrangement that were agreed to via due process, including the Serbs in Montenegro. You can't at every turn or bump in the road start waving the 'let's split off' flag again. Or you do, and then in no time you will find yourself back in a shooting war with ethnic cleansing.
Count your blessings, live in peace

Czechoslovakia split based on a simple vote, not a single shot fired. Of course they're not Serb's. If they were Serb's then that half would have been ravaged by NATO bombs until a "western friendly " government was in full control.
It's a double standard based on pure Hypocrisy whether you want to admit or not my friend.

 

[Penguin]

I'm not asking you to split your views on anything. I'm asking why are the 2 choices I outlined the only ones that apply to the Balkans? Anything outside those 2 choices invites threats and "bombs for peace" from NATO?

Says who? You?

Right now the Serb half of Bosnia wants to break off, why should the Muslim half have the right to say "no, if you do that we will attack you and we'll have NATO on our side" .

Right. Now where did 'serb half of Bosnia wants to break off' kreep in? See start of thread. This is your claim. Supported by what?
And in this sentence above, who said anything about the Muslim half having the right to attack. I didn't. Nor did I say anything similar wrt Serb half. You make this up. NATO member ship is for a country as a whole. As for the nato bit you put in there: I don't recall nato being called upon in other cases e.g. UK (northern ireland, scotland), Spain (Catalonia) You keep making stuff up.

Besides: what muslim half?

Czechoslovakia split based on a simple vote, not a single shot fired. Of course they're not Serb's. If they were Serb's then that half would have been ravaged by NATO bombs until a "western friendly " government was in full control.
It's a double standard based on pure Hypocrisy whether you want to admit or not my friend.

You're not CzechoSlovakia / Czech and Slovak reps, you haven't a fresh history of ethnic violence/cleansing. NATO didn't make any of the constitutents of former Yugoslavia go kill each other.

Nicely played victim role. Not buying.

 

[Dragi]

Says who? You?.

Says 25 years of HISTORY ,guess you haven't been paying attention.

1)Bosnian civil war, NATO attacked only Serb's.
2) half- million Serb's murdered and driven out of Krajina, NATO watches.
20 years since Krajina Serbs pogrom
3) Kosovo war, only Serb's and all of Yugoslavia attacked, Albanian atrocities ignored.
4) Serbian Pogrom of 2004, hundreds of Serb's murdered and burned out of their homes in Kosovo, hundreds of churches burned down, NATO troops watch and do nothing.
11 years since "March Pogrom" of Serbs in Kosovo - Politics - on B92.net

You obviously have blinders on because even someone who is only partially paying attention would see the agenda here.

Right. Now where did 'serb half of Bosnia wants to break off' kreep in? See start of thread. This is your claim. Supported by what?
And in this sentence above, who said anything about the Muslim half having the right to attack. I didn't. Nor did I say anything similar wrt Serb half. You make this up. NATO member ship is for a country as a whole. As for the nato bit you put in there: I don't recall nato being called upon in other cases e.g. UK (northern ireland, scotland), Spain (Catalonia) You keep making stuff up.

Besides: what muslim half?

Bosnia is an example of Why Serb's are not allowed to do what other groups do, including voting to create a separate entity. Every time it's brought up in Bosnia for discussion there are threats from NATO. Why is this so confusing to you?

Below is a map of Montenegro, I never talked about a "Muslim half" of Montenegro! What I said was that Serb's in Bosnia will never be allowed to "vote their way out of Bosnia.
In Montenegro, Serb's will will never be allowed to vote their way out of joining NATO. Obviously any division below would be complicated, but it's not impossible if Democracy and self-determination are really an ideal offered to all people. They're not, they only apply to NATO allies.

You're not CzechoSlovakia / Czech and Slovak reps, you haven't a fresh history of ethnic violence/cleansing. NATO didn't make any of the constitutents of former Yugoslavia go kill each other.
Nicely played victim role. Not buying.

There's no victim role, there's 25 years of plainly executed anti-Serb policy you have chosen to turn a blind eye to.

Watch, if division of Montenegro even rises as an issue, the CIA acting thru NATO and other "humanitarian NGO's" , will make 100% sure that there is no voting or peaceful solution allowed to take place. There will be a war instead, funded with CIA dollars and weapons.

 

[Penguin]

"Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not after me."

 

[Dragi]

funny
I could post 150 more news articles showing where Serbs and only Serbs were the target of NATO aggression, planned and executed, but your obviously not interested.
At least we can agree on one thing, whatever happens in Montenegro , by the grace of God let it avoid bloodshed and slaughter.

 

[Dragi]

Montenegro made the news again Djuki voted most corrupt politician in the whole world for 2015, LOL

OCCRP announces 2015 Organized Crime and Corruption ‘Person of the Year’ Award