NATO invites Montenegro to join: 'Not a threat to anybody,'

[yugocrosrb95]

meh, you can paint it any way you want to but Russia has never bombed Serbia / Montenegro and killed thousands of people there.

You should be thankful for Tito for that Soviets didn't bomb Serbia...

in the same logic that Montenegro might "need" a civil war. 50% of the population is strongly opposed to (hate) NATO. This is a huge problem and very dangerous. If it was 30/70 either way then it would probably not be a problem.

Anyway, NATO is just looking to create a new crisis. With regime change in Syria going badly the organization needs a new conflict to re-assert itself. Assuming of course that NATO survives the next 5 years. Turkey is causing a huge problem for the entire rotten organization.

...and you're delusional, you can deny it and make bunch of assumptions and just come to your desired conclussions. If being ignorant makes you happy then so be it.

 

[Penguin]

meh, you can paint it any way you want to but Russia has never bombed Serbia / Montenegro and killed thousands of people there.

in the same logic that Montenegro might "need" a civil war. 50% of the population is strongly opposed to (hate) NATO. This is a huge problem and very dangerous. If it was 30/70 either way then it would probably not be a problem.

Anyway, NATO is just looking to create a new crisis. With regime change in Syria going badly the organization needs a new conflict to re-assert itself. Assuming of course that NATO survives the next 5 years. Turkey is causing a huge problem for the entire rotten organization.

What a coincidence. Just the other day Russia urged Montenegro to hold a referendum on joining Nato, arguing that less the half of its population backs joining the military alliance. And here we have someone from Serbia arguing the same. How surprising.
Russia urges Montenegro to hold referendum on Nato - BBC News

RT blares "Montenegro in NATO: Provocation at a critical moment in US-Russian relations" and goes on to say:
"The bid to join NATO, which Podhoritsa has been pursuing since its full secession from Serbia in 2006, was never subjected to the test of a popular vote. The decision to ask for membership was supported earlier this year by a simple majority vote in Montenegro's parliament, which has been for the past 25 years controlled by the country's current prime minister Milo Djukanovic via his Democratic party of Socialists - the local successor to Yugoslavia's Titoist communist party.
Montenegro in NATO: Provocation at a critical moment in US-Russian relations — RT Op-Edge

But there is also this: "Montenegro Evenly Divided Over NATO Membership.For the first time in Montenegro, about as many people support the idea of the country joining NATO as oppose it, a new survey suggested.If a referendum was held immediately on NATO membership, 36 per cent of Montenegrins would vote in favour and 37 per cent against, a survey published on Tuesday suggested. The survey, conducted this month by a local watchdog organisation called the Centre for Democracy and Human Rights, CEDEM, sampled the views of 1,009 people and suggested that 26 per cent remain undecided on the issue. CEDEM's director Nenad Koprivica said that the number of NATO opponents is in decline - compared to September last year, the proportion of people who don't want Montenegro to join has fallen from 44.5 to 37.3 per cent.... An anti-NATO campaign group called No to War - No to NATO accused the government of releasing "false information" about public support for NATO. According to its own data, about 46 per cent of the population now support joining the Western military alliance."
Montenegro Evenly Divided Over NATO Membership :: Balkan Insight

The last parliamentary elections were 14 October 2012. Let the electorate speak their mind during the next election. If they don't like what their government does, they can throw it out come 2016. That;s proper proces. Ad hoc referenda aren't.

 

[proka89]

...and Serbia keeps dancing for Russians.

Please explain how Serbia keeps dancing for Russians?

Here let me provide you with some facts:

Economy:

64% of Serbia’s overall trade is with the EU. And after EU with CEFTA countries from the region, which are trying to become part of EU, or NATO.

There is over 100 Russian companies in Serbia. But at the same time there is around 400 companies just from Germany doing business in Serbia. More than 500 Italian companies, around 100 French companies, around 600 companies from Austria....

Politics:

In 2012 Serbia recived full candidate status for EU. Serbia also particpates in NATO IPAP program.

Military:

From 24 international military exercise in 2015 in which Serbian army participated or plans to participate, 22 were with NATO states and 2 with Russia. Sixty percent of Serbia’s overseas military training and education takes place within the United States. Since 2006 Serbia is in Ohio–Serbia National Guard Partnership...

Not being a complete puppet state to NATO, US and EU (like Croatia for example) it's not the same thing as "dancing for Russians". We see our interest in maintaining friendly relations with Russia, and we are not going to be one more sheep in NATO flock like Croatia doing whatever they are told to do by their western masters. Maybe you should consider dismissal of your Ministry of Foreign Affairs, you don't need a whole ministry just to follow orders from EU and NATO.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Please explain how Serbia keeps dancing for Russians?

Here let me provide you with some facts:

Economy:

64% of Serbia’s overall trade is with the EU. And after EU with CEFTA countries from the region, which are trying to become part of EU, or NATO.

There is over 100 Russian companies in Serbia. But at the same time there is around 400 companies just from Germany doing business in Serbia. More than 500 Italian companies, around 100 French companies, around 600 companies from Austria....

Politics:

In 2012 Serbia recived full candidate status for EU. Serbia also particpates in NATO IPAP program.

Military:

From 24 international military exercise in 2015 in which Serbian army participated or plans to participate, 22 were with NATO states and 2 with Russia. Sixty percent of Serbia’s overseas military training and education takes place within the United States. Since 2006 Serbia is in Ohio–Serbia National Guard Partnership...

Not being a complete puppet state to NATO, US and EU (like Croatia for example) it's not the same thing as "dancing for Russians". We see our interest in maintaining friendly relations with Russia, and we are not going to be one more sheep in NATO flock like Croatia doing whatever they are told to do by their western masters. Maybe you should consider dismissal of your Ministry of Foreign Affairs, you don't need a whole ministry just to follow orders from EU and NATO.

You're one of those mumbo jumbo idiots who are either ignorant or have confirmation bias and you always blame others and make conspiracy theories that would require a tin foil hat!

How is my country puppet state? By saying "No!" when it isn't in our interest?

 

[proka89]

You're one of those mumbo jumbo idiots who are either ignorant or have confirmation bias and you always blame others and make conspiracy theories that would require a tin foil hat!

How is my country puppet state? By saying "No!" when it isn't in our interest?

So no arguments, just insults?

 

[yugocrosrb95]

So no arguments, just insults?

Why would I need arguments to an idiot like you who lies about my homeland...

Anyway... Here's an argument, why Serbia has a Russian base yet my country doesn't have any NATO base, explain that and you can tell it isn't a base yet Russians can use it as a base if they send soldiers and equipment there, it isn't an embassy afterall.

Just because my country is in EU and NATO that you simply jump to your desired non-factual purely based on your own assumptions conclussions and I should give arguments to a fool like you who lies and has double standards, you use facts yet you won't use facts for my country?

 

[proka89]

Why would I need arguments to an idiot like you who lies about my homeland...

Anyway... Here's an argument, why Serbia has a Russian base yet my country doesn't have any NATO base, explain that and you can tell it isn't a base yet Russians can use it as a base if they send soldiers and equipment there, it isn't an embassy afterall.

Just because my country is in EU and NATO that you simply jump to your desired non-factual purely based on your own assumptions conclussions and I should give arguments to a fool like you who lies and has double standards, you use facts yet you won't use facts for my country?

For repeated insults you will be reported, i don't plan to put myself to your level, and respond in kind. I gave you clear facts, which are easy to check, but you responded with insults and declaring me conspiracy theorist .

Russia does not have a base in Serbia, there is only Serbian-Russian Humanitarian Center in Nis. Fire trucks, food, blankets, one or two fire fighting helicopters.... and that is all. A real danger to the world, i can tell

And i am still waiting for you to explain how are we dancing for the Russia. I gave you the facts, how about you grow up and do the same.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

And i am still waiting for you to explain how are we dancing for the Russia. I gave you the facts, how about you grow up and do the same.

You ask me to do the same despite I have already done so... *facepalm*

 

[proka89]

You ask me to do the same despite I have already done so... *facepalm*

Where exactly? You are here for maybe three months, and already you have insulted Serbs and Serbia numeros times, without arguments, just plain insults or lies. Here are some examples:

I am, I am Croatian Serbian. Serbo-Croat, my Serbian side of family has roots from 5 centuries ago when they fled from Serbia when otomans conquered Serbia. I am a true Serbian from my dads side not a mut like supposed Serbians in Serbia that didn't know how to defend themself.

Source: New Afghanistan For Russia | Page 3

Serbia's closeness with Russia and the likely that Serbian goverment basically has history of dancing and doing what Russians ask them to do, almost puppet goverment.

Source: OH 58 Kiowa Warrior donated to Croatia by USA, inspected by MDRC & ARRC team...

And now this topic. So for three months here you repeatedly mentioned Serbs and Serbia in negative context, or just insulted my country and my people. You do not provide any arguments in your comments, just insults. I am on this forum for almost three years, and i hardly ever mentioned Croatia, and certainly never insulted Croatia or Croatians, like you do so often in case of Serbia. Until now i tried to ignore you, but you are obviously persistent. And now you're even insulting me because you can't deny the facts i presented here.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Where exactly you say? You and your confirmation bias...

I am not insulting you because I "can't" deny your supposed facts while you claim as a fact that my country is apparently by your opinion which you treat it as a fact a puppet state because of your ignorance while you are ignorant about your own country.

Anyway as you are such a good Serb that continues to lie as you deny arguments and facts due to your confirmation bias yet your opinion about my country is counted as facts by your standards.

You can it lies because you don't like the reality.

 

[Dragi]

What a coincidence. Just the other day Russia urged Montenegro to hold a referendum on joining Nato, arguing that less the half of its population backs joining the military alliance. And here we have someone from Serbia arguing the same. How surprising.
The last parliamentary elections were 14 October 2012. Let the electorate speak their mind during the next election. If they don't like what their government does, they can throw it out come 2016. That;s proper proces. Ad hoc referenda aren't.

sure, lets see what happens at the ballot box but Unfortunately for Serbs in Montenegro, they do not get to break off a chunk and start their own little country like Albanians in Kosovo. The Djukanovic government however is no less corrupt than the Thaci criminal enterprise in Kosovo. The only thing propping up Djuki's little fiefdom up is tourism and a lot of that is Russian. We'll see how well he does at the polls if the foreign tourist dollars start drying up.

Where exactly? You are here for maybe three months, and already you have insulted Serbs and Serbia numeros times, without arguments, just plain insults or lies. And now you're even insulting me because you can't deny the facts i presented here.

when your 19 years old , and have identity crisis issues , then insults is all you have. Like the old saying,
"when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

 

[proka89]

Where exactly you say? You and your confirmation bias...

Yes i say where exactly. So far we could see you claiming more than once that Serbia is Russian puppet state. I gave you arguments and facts which clearly show that it is simply not true. You did not dispute not a single one of those arguments or provided counter arguments. Instead you called me an idiot and fool... So you have a right to call Serbia Russian puppet state without arguments, but when someone do the same for Croatia, he is idot, conspiracy teorist and fool. Interesting.

I am not insulting you because I "can't" deny your supposed facts while you claim as a fact that my country is apparently by your opinion which you treat it as a fact a puppet state because of your ignorance while you are ignorant about your own country.

My "supposed facts", are easily checked. If you do not know how to use Google, i can provide you with links which will confirm everything i wrote here. Your facts or arguments are yet to be seen here. They are not even supposed, they are for now not existing. I am saying that Croatia is NATO and EU puppet state, because it is obvious that Croatia follows EU and NATO foreign policy in everything. And decisions are not made in Zagreb, they are made in Brussel and Washington by large EU countries and US. You are doing what you are told to do. Even in recent border problems between Serbia and Croatia, after Croatia closed their border with Serbia, and Serbia responded in the same way. First we could hear the Croatian prime minister, how Serbia must not close border with Croatia, because Croatia is part of EU. After that we could hear from EU that they are not supporting Croatia in this case, and then a miracle Croatia opens borders to Serbia again. Was Croatia protecting their own interests in Afghanistan war? Arming Syrian rebels to protect their own interests in middle east?....When was the last time that Croatia did anything serious in the opposite to the EU and NATO?

Anyway as you are such a good Serb that continues to lie as you deny arguments and facts due to your confirmation bias yet your opinion about my country is counted as facts by your standards.

Not a single thing i wrote here is a lie, you did not provide any arguments that are contradictory to what i wrote here. You are saying that i lie, because you say so. Are your words some kind of dogma?

You can it lies because you don't like the reality.

Well what can i say, i like fantasy novels. You got me there

 

[yugocrosrb95]

I gave you arguments and facts which clearly show that it is simply not true.

No, what you have done is cherry picking.

You did not dispute not a single one of those arguments or provided counter arguments.

Why should I dispute it your arguments and provide counter arguments? It sounds crazy to you now, but consider this that you have cherry picked and that you have confirmation bias.

Instead you called me an idiot and fool... So you have a right to call Serbia Russian puppet state without arguments, but when someone do the same for Croatia, he is idot, conspiracy teorist and fool. Interesting.

I have the right because the proof and the argument is in history of Serbia which you should know yet you feint ignorance and cherry pick informations due to your confirmation bias while your claim about Croatia are assumptions and conclussions that suit your views.

My "supposed facts", are easily checked. If you do not know how to use Google, i can provide you with links which will confirm everything i wrote here.

If only you knew how to use google properly and go deeper in the deep web!

Your facts or arguments are yet to be seen here.

Ofcourse according to you thanks to your confirmation bias as you cherry pick.

I am saying that Croatia is NATO and EU puppet state, because it is obvious that Croatia follows EU and NATO foreign policy in everything. And decisions are not made in Zagreb, they are made in Brussel and Washington by large EU countries and US.And decisions are not made in Zagreb, they are made in Brussel and Washington by large EU countries and US. And decisions are not made in Zagreb, they are made in Brussel and Washington by large EU countries and US.

What you are saying is factually incorrect, but you are going to force it because of your confirmation bias in which you are cherry picking information, making assumptions and jumping to conclussions that suit you and your ignorance involving how EU and NATO works is showing.

NATO's headquarters is in Brussel, not Washington and ofcourse you are ignoring that decisions are made by all countries members in NATO and European Union yet you're ignoring it and simplifying it because you can't comprehend it that every member takes part in decision making.

You are doing what you are told to do.

That is what you want to believe and not what it is.

Even in recent border problems between Serbia and Croatia, after Croatia closed their border with Serbia, and Serbia responded in the same way. First we could hear the Croatian prime minister, how Serbia must not close border with Croatia, because Croatia is part of EU. After that we could hear from EU that they are not supporting Croatia in this case, and then a miracle Croatia opens borders to Serbia again.

Again, you are oversimplifying and cherry picking.

Was Croatia protecting their own interests in Afghanistan war?

Protecting? Maybe. Croatian soldiers are there to train and gain valuable experience there and to reap benefits whenever possible.

Arming Syrian rebels to protect their own interests in middle east?....

That decision is influenced by past experience of serbian soldiers firing at and killing civilians which Assad's forces did since start of the war.

When was the last time that Croatia did anything serious in the opposite to the EU and NATO?

The most serious thing involving EU is involving Swiss Franc, the conversion and pressure on banks, major/influencial EU members pressured and Croatian goverment responded and they backed off...

Croatia does not have reasons if any to have disagreements or oppose either NATO or EU due to common interests and give and take relationship, Croatia is in NATO and EU because of common interests otherwise it would't. Serbia looks at EU because of common interest and benefits which is less taxation on serbian goods, Croatia reaps benefits(finally) and it looks that we may export more than import in terms of monetary value.

Not a single thing i wrote here is a lie, you did not provide any arguments that are contradictory to what i wrote here. You are saying that i lie, because you say so.

It is not because I say so, but because it is as you keep assuring yourself that you aren't lying.

You're ignorant about your country as your president is crying and begs Putin as he seeks attention like a good puppy/pet as the Russian high ranking official acts as if Serbia is part of Russia.

 

[proka89]

No, what you have done is cherry picking.

Why should I dispute it your arguments and provide counter arguments? It sounds crazy to you now, but consider this that you have cherry picked and that you have confirmation bias.

I have the right because the proof and the argument is in history of Serbia which you should know yet you feint ignorance and cherry pick informations due to your confirmation bias while your claim about Croatia are assumptions and conclussions that suit your views.

So basically what you are saying is this: "I have no counter arguments, and i can't dispute what you said, but i am gonna say that you are wrong because i said so". Wow that is brilliant, you have just find a way to win in any argument, without even using arguments.

What you are saying is factually incorrect, but you are going to force it because of your confirmation bias in which you are cherry picking information, making assumptions and jumping to conclussions that suit you and your ignorance involving how EU and NATO works is showing.

NATO's headquarters is in Brussel, not Washington and ofcourse you are ignoring that decisions are made by all countries members in NATO and European Union yet you're ignoring it and simplifying it because you can't comprehend it that every member takes part in decision making.

So little more about "cherry picking". And from a person who is doing exactly what he is accusing others of doing.

And i never said that NATO headquarters are in Washington, i said that all decisions are being made in Washington and Brussels. So please tell me when was the last time Croatia suggested some course of actions in NATO or EU, and that was followed by other countries?

Again, you are oversimplifying and cherry picking.

I am not sure, but do you maybe have some cherry fetish?

Protecting? Maybe. Croatian soldiers are there to train and gain valuable experience there and to reap benefits whenever possible.

Sure

That decision is influenced by past experience of serbian soldiers firing at and killing civilians which Assad's forces did since start of the war.

So moving from the topic. You must be happy that most of those weapons ended up with the "good guys" from ISIS and Al Nusra.

The most serious thing involving EU is involving Swiss Franc, the conversion and pressure on banks, major/influencial EU members pressured and Croatian goverment responded and they backed off...

So spending your money to protect your citizens is the highest point of Croatian independent foreign policy

Croatia does not have reasons if any to have disagreements or oppose either NATO or EU due to common interests and give and take relationship, Croatia is in NATO and EU because of common interests otherwise it would't. Serbia looks at EU because of common interest and benefits which is less taxation on serbian goods, Croatia reaps benefits(finally) and it looks that we may export more than import in terms of monetary value.

So basically you are not denying that Croatia follows EU and NATO decisions. By the way data about Croatian Import/Export with EU in first half of 2015:

Export: 3.7 billion of euros
Import: 7.1 billion of euros

MVEP • O hrvatskom izvozu

So wrong again i gues?

It is not because I say so, but because it is as you keep assuring yourself that you aren't lying.

You're ignorant about your country as your president is crying and begs Putin as he seeks attention like a good puppy/pet as the Russian high ranking official acts as if Serbia is part of Russia.

What can i say but LOL.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

So basically what you are saying is this: "I have no counter arguments, and i can't dispute what you said, but i am gonna say that you are wrong because i said so". Wow that is brilliant, you have just find a way to win in any argument, without even using arguments.

That is what you want to believe rather than admit your own ignorance about your own country and/or admit that you have confirmation bias, if you're ignorant then you should't have said this:

If you do not know how to use Google

So little more about "cherry picking". And from a person who is doing exactly what he is accusing others of doing.

I am doing it? Since when "cherry picking" is not ignoring any facts? That's the opposite of it.

And i never said that NATO headquarters are in Washington, i said that all decisions are being made in Washington and Brussels. So please tell me when was the last time Croatia suggested some course of actions in NATO or EU, and that was followed by other countries?

Slovenia and Croatia Pushing for Montenegro's NATO Membership
Croatia PM Urges NATO to Admit Montenegro
Kitarović: Hrvatska snažno za CG u NATO-u
Common visit to Montenegro by Romanian Minister of Foreign Affairs Bogdan Aurescu and counterparts from Poland, Croatia and Hungary
Croatia and Poland advocate sending NATO invitation to Montenegro
Croatia claims Montenegro will receive NATO invitation in December

Anyway you keep forcing it, I guess you don't understand that decisions of organization is made in their own headquarters like any goverment and ministry operates.

I am not sure, but do you maybe have some cherry fetish?

Same can be said about your denial.

Sure

Don't believe me, not my problem while Croatian soldiers train Afghan military...

So moving from the topic. You must be happy that most of those weapons ended up with the "good guys" from ISIS and Al Nusra.

Some of them did, but is my country at fault? No. Is my country responsible that someone got shot and ISIS or Al Nusra took weapons from their corpse or position? No.

So spending your money to protect your citizens is the highest point of Croatian independent foreign policy

Don't oversimplify it, again.

You must know that Croatia has border disputes with pretty much every neighbour except Hungary and with Slovenia about depositors savings and damages to HEP were won this year even though former is a victory with bitter taste sadly.

The main objective of the Croatian foreign policy is positioning within the EU institutions and in the region, cooperation with NATO partners and strengthening multilateral and bilateral cooperation.

So basically you are not denying that Croatia follows EU and NATO decisions.

Why should I in the first place when Croatia is a part of those organizattions because of common interest which you simply can not understand thus you label a country that follow and agree's with decisions as "puppet state" despite participating and supporting those decisions in the first place.

Croatia is part of EU and NATO, Croatia is in essence the EU and NATO.

By the way data about Croatian Import/Export with EU in first half of 2015:
Export: 3.7 billion of euros
Import: 7.1 billion of euros

MVEP • O hrvatskom izvozu

So wrong again i gues?

You're wrong because you cherry picked again and you understood it the way you wanted it... LOL

Ukupni je hrvatski robni izvoz u razdoblju od siječnja do listopada poskočio 12 posto u odnosu na isto razdoblje prošle godine, pokazuju podaci Eurostata.

Hrvatski robni izvoz porastao u prvih 10 mjeseci za 10,8 posto

Exports grow far more than imports...

Your country on the other hand;
Raste deficit, uvoz prešišao izvoz
Srbija povećala izvoz za 6,6 odsto

XAXAXAXAXA