Naswaristan

[Alpha1]

@WebMaster
@Aeronaut ok u cant ban me!

 

[EagleEyes]

@Alpha1 she is way older than you kid.

Self deleted .......

Why did you delete it.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why did you delete it.

Yaar hasnay wali kya baat hai ismay?

 

[Alpha1]

Chemistry sucks!!!

 

[Zarvan]

Not 100, About 200 years after Prophet (PBUH) and Usman (RA) destroyed all writings after compiling Quran

no he only burnt copies of quran hadees were compiled in time of hazrat Muhammad saw and hazrat Abu hurraira ra also before his death told his students to write all hadees and one another sahabi did it and all other sahabas orally remembered hadees and followed them kharjis were the one who denied hadees without hadees you can't follow most orders of Quran those who deny hadees are basically enemies of hazrat Muhammad saw and will attack Quran too @Talon @Mirzay @Alpha1 @Slav Defence @Armstrong

 

[KingMamba]

wow what a warm and heartfelt response...tell me dear, being an asshole, was it pre-destined or free will for you Just kidding

I didn't know what to say. agar aise baat thi mujhe bol dena tha keh sonne se pehle zara aajana jaan.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan

Can you educate us bit more about this subject? I mean i know they recommend 100 lashes for pre-martial sex and stoning to death for extra martial sex but how you going to prove the act of zina because involving in such acts is very much personal act which people do inside their bedroom. No one will commit such acts on road or in public places and If four people/witnesses were watching a sin then should not they be punishment for watching it and doing nothing to stop it ? In past all those who committed zina went to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) voluntarily because of guilty and asked him to purify them and also lashing to zani should be lightly or with full force ?

Thanks

I know but in case if a person is caught by 4 witness he would be given 100 lashes if he or she is not married and if married than brutal death

 

[Armstrong]

That is why most hadith were already rejected. The ones that made it through as Sahih have been meticulously examined by many a scholar over the centuries and they found little fault with them. This Quranist movement is relatively knew and is an apologetic movement but its reasoning I don't want to get into. As long as a Hadith that is considered sahih does not contradict anything in the Quran we can rest assured it is probably authentic.

The Koranist movement is as old as Islam & is often associated with Omar (RA) because of his hesitancy in compiling hadith & even an edict or two of his whereby he forbade others to quote too many hadith lest the people forget about the Koran & are perpetually bogged down into what this hadith said or what that did - As it happens these days !

Contemporary Koranists Movement are a bit reformist in nature & some of them come up with fantastic interpretations of Koran which are the same as one holding a coconut in their hand but insisting that they interpret it to be a watermelon ! Others are not that insane.

My friend the Hadith were collected a 100 or as @LoveIcon said 200 years after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) & we know for a fact that there are many Hadith that were deliberate fabrications; therefore I agree with those people who assert that the Hadith should be looked upon as Historical Documents that may or may not be true & that they shouldn't be binding on one as an incontrovertible fact & as such our laws should be derived solely from the Koran.

Even as far as the Science behind Hadith collection is concerned - Though it is admirable in a historical context which does impress upon us that the Hadith shouldn't be just ignored without a second glance one must understand that even with respect to the Authentication process there are some glaring deficiencies that one would be hard to get past, deficiencies like such a long chain of narrations which is bound to change the context & even the wording of the original hadith transmitted, that the Hadith were collected nearly a 100 or 200 years after that death of the Prophet (PBUH) which is more than enough time for discrepancies to creep in no matter what & the Hadith sciences assuming amongst other things that a Hadith that doesn't contradict the Koran could be 'authentic' & this is something that ignores the very real possibility that maybe we've absorbed so much extra things into Islam because of these Ahadith that though never contradicted Koran but were talking about things that weren't found mentioned anywhere in the Koran either so maybe its extra-Islam or beyond-Islam the things we've integrated into Islam.

Kiyun @Talon @HRK kuch ghalat bolaa ?

 

[Zarvan]

The Koranist movement is as old as Islam & is often associated with Omar (RA) because of his hesitancy in compiling hadith & even an edict or two of his whereby he forbade others to quote too many hadith lest the people forget about the Koran & are perpetually bogged down into what this hadith said or what that did - As it happens these days !

Contemporary Koranists Movement are a bit reformist in nature & some of them come up with fantastic interpretations of Koran which are the same as one holding a coconut in their hand but insisting that they interpret it to be a watermelon ! Others are not that insane.

My friend the Hadith were collected a 100 or as @LoveIcon said 200 years after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) & we know for a fact that there are many Hadith that were deliberate fabrications; therefore I agree with those people who assert that the Hadith should be looked upon as Historical Documents that may or may not be true & that they shouldn't be binding on one as an incontrovertible fact & as such our laws should be derived solely from the Koran.

Even as far as the Science behind Hadith collection is concerned - Though it is admirable in a historical context which does impress upon us that the Hadith shouldn't be just ignored without a second glance one must understand that even with respect to the Authentication process there are some glaring deficiencies that one would be hard to get past, deficiencies like such a long chain of narrations which is bound to change the context & even the wording of the original hadith transmitted, that the Hadith were collected nearly a 100 or 200 years after that death of the Prophet (PBUH) which is more than enough time for discrepancies to creep in no matter what & the Hadith sciences assuming amongst other things that a Hadith that doesn't contradict the Koran could be 'authentic' & this is something that ignores the very real possibility that maybe we've absorbed so much extra things into Islam because of these Ahadith that though never contradicted Koran but were talking about things that weren't found mentioned anywhere in the Koran either so maybe its extra-Islam or beyond-Islam the things we've integrated into Islam.

Kiyun @Talon @HRK kuch ghalat bolaa ?

no sir completely wrong here hadees were written in time of hazrat Muhammad saw and some written collection were their sir than two major sahaba before their death wrote hadees one of them was hazrat Abu hurraira ra and finally all sahabas learnt hadees and followers them and without hadees you can't follow Quran and hazrat Muhammad saw can give orders either than the Quran

 

[KingMamba]

@Armstrong Hazrat Umar RA cannot be considered the first Quranist because how could he have rejected hadith when Hazrat Muhammad PBUH was still alive? They were all already living by the sunnah by following the Nabi in the flesh so there was no need for there to be a written codified system of Hadith or even the Quran in the very beginning. Even the Quran was eventually written down because too many Sahaba were being martyed in battle (it is known that Prophet Muhammad PBUH and the sahaba had the whole Quran memorized and Prophet Muhammad PBUH made sure they always recited it to him so that he knew there was no mistakes) and it became necessary to preserve the Quran in the form of kitab. Hence the Quran was put into codified form and was completed by Hazrat Umar RA time. The same applies to hadith because there was no need to codify the hadith in the beginning as the sahaba, their children, and even their grandchildren were all in the presence of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and so they were already following his sunnah however as time passed and later people no longer were around Prophet Muhammad PBUH the hadith was written down in order to preserve his life and words. Like I said the Quran is not exact on how to pray sure it says you stand in one verse and you postrate in another but the way we are taught is how Prophet Muhammad PBUH did it exactly through hadith which is his sunnah ergo hadith are important.

As for hadith being something extra islam or beyond islam know that you are currently on a pc my friend and there is no mention of a pc in the Quran so are you not going beyond the pale of islam? You see how absurd that reasoning is?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I know but in case if a person is caught by 4 witness he would be given 100 lashes if he or she is not married and if married than brutal death

It was not happened in past and it will never happen in future especially in Muslim countries where people cannot even imagine of involving in zina in front of four witnesses. we cannot find what people do in their bedroom or in their private rooms unless we have CCTV fitted in their bedroom

so this if is impossible..the only way to find out is if people confess it themselves the way they did in past when they went to prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and asked for purification

 

[Armstrong]

no sir completely wrong here hadees were written in time of hazrat Muhammad saw and some written collection were their sir than two major sahaba before their death wrote hadees one of them was hazrat Abu hurraira ra and finally all sahabas learnt hadees and followers them and without hadees you can't follow Quran and hazrat Muhammad saw can give orders either than the Quran

The Sahih Bukhari, which as far as I can tell are the earliest of the Sahih Al Sitah, is from nearly 200 years after Hijri !

@Armstrong Hazrat Umar RA cannot be considered the first Quranist because how could he have rejected hadith when Hazrat Muhammad PBUH was still alive?......did it exactly through hadith which is his sunnah ergo hadith are important.

As for hadith being something extra islam or beyond islam know that you are currently on a pc my friend and there is no mention of a pc in the Quran so are you not going beyond the pale of islam? You see how absurd that reasoning is?

I never said that Omar (RA) rejected the Hadith or anything like it, he after he became the 2nd Caliph of Islam deferred on undertaking the compilation of the Hadith out of fear that Muslims would concentrate on them alone instead of the Koran & even forbade, at that time, others from quoting too many Ahadith for the same reason.

Furthermore unlike the Koran the Ahadith have no congruence to them & there weren't scribes sitting with the Prophet (PBUH) writing down his sayings in accordance with his will as it was with the Koran there were some who were doing it as per their own initiative; unfortunately their accounts don't survive to this date & we only have the Sahih Al Sitta for the Sunnis which were compiled nearly 200 years after hijri unlike the Koran.

And no the personal computer analogy doesn't hold for I wasn't referring to those things ! I was referring to laws & commandments - God doesn't tell me to use or not to use a PC but if a Hadith tells me that stoning is the penalty for adultery for a married man & a married woman than that is something that could be potentially problematic in that questions must be raised whether such & such a thing should be included in the law of the land or not ?

So I agree with the reasoning that the Ahadith should be taken as historical occurrences, sayings & doings that may or may not be true which means that whereas they shouldn't be ignored completely for we don't ignore history but nor should they be legally binding on us !

 

[Alpha1]

@KingMamba93 open your inbox when free

 

[ZYXW]

I didn't know what to say. agar aise baat thi mujhe bol dena tha keh sonne se pehle zara aajana jaan.

im just messing with you, it's cool
you free now?

 

[KingMamba]

im just messing with you, it's cool
you free now?

Yeah I am watching bates motel, the show is sick.