My thoughts on the Lahore attacks

[Stumper]

In that case pray to God that He give you and your family an opportunity to bleed before someone else ...

It is easy to sya stuff but it is different when ones own family is involved

No, unlike you, i still pray that good sense prevails on both side. Unfortunately ground reality tells me that this not going to happen anytime soon. So you bleed us and we bleed you. Its a tit for tat in our part of the world, sadly. We have let our religious beliefs and national pride take precedence over mankind and human values.

 

[belarusian]

actually what roadrunner wrote doesn't make alot of sense to me.

cant you see the connection to the muslim brotherhood in egypt or the gpsc in algeria or hamas etc etc.

i think the way it works is this: there is a party in power which is afraid of any opposition so it creates its own opposition as a nightmare alternative. this is what all reactionary governments do.

 

[roadrunner]

actually what roadrunner wrote doesn't make alot of sense to me.

cant you see the connection to the muslim brotherhood in egypt or the gpsc in algeria or hamas etc etc.

i think the way it works is this: there is a party in power which is afraid of any opposition so it creates its own opposition as a nightmare alternative. this is what all reactionary governments do.

I think the Jihadi militant groups created by the Indian Army in Kashmir are just a method of carrying out operations outside of the scope of the law.

I can't see any radical parties winning elections in Pakistan, so no need to create any monsters. It's all very real.

 

[roadrunner]

Please don't prejudge me. I have an open mind about most things including this idea that RAW funds and uses Pakistani jihadi groups to foment turmoil in Pakistan. If you have a link handy, please post it and I will read it without prejudice.

No prejudging involved! I know who posts what! But i got time, so here's a link

The name of another paramilitary group, the Taliban, was reportedly deliberately chosen to create confusion with the militant Islamic Afghan group of the same name.[23] Since the conflict in Kashmir began in 1990, the Indian government has attempted to discredit militant organizations by claiming that the uprising was provoked by Pakistan and was not indigenous in origin. It has also accused the militants of espousing a militant Islamic ideology when that characterization is only true of some of the groups. Mia Bashir Ahmed, a powerful Congress leader in Kashmir, has been Taliban’s principal patron. The Taliban works with the Indian army in Kashmir and operates in the area of Kangan on the outskirts of Srinagar. The Muslim Mujahedin, another group, operates around Anantnag and works with the STF. It has taken over many of the patrolling responsibilities of the security forces.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

A witness who was abducted by Ikhwan-ul Muslimoon forces told Human Rights Watch that he was detained at a house adjacent to an army Rashtriya Rifles camp at Umarheer, Ahmed Nagar, Baspara, three kilometers from Soura hospital. A Rashtriya Rifles bunker stands at the entrance to the house.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

 

[Khajur]

I think the Jihadi militant groups created by the Indian Army in Kashmir are just a method of carrying out operations outside of the scope of the law.

I can't see any radical parties winning elections in Pakistan, so no need to create any monsters. It's all very real.

Its the first time i'm hearing something like this.It may be because such thing never find space in our independent & very critical media as even they didnt come across such cases where "Jihadi militant groups created by the Indian Army" carry out their operations in kashmir.

Nevertheless i can understand such propaganda appearing in pak media as
part of disinformation campaign .

 

[notsuperstitious]

No prejudging involved! I know who posts what! But i got time, so here's a link

The name of another paramilitary group, the Taliban, was reportedly deliberately chosen to create confusion with the militant Islamic Afghan group of the same name.[23] Since the conflict in Kashmir began in 1990, the Indian government has attempted to discredit militant organizations by claiming that the uprising was provoked by Pakistan and was not indigenous in origin. It has also accused the militants of espousing a militant Islamic ideology when that characterization is only true of some of the groups. Mia Bashir Ahmed, a powerful Congress leader in Kashmir, has been Taliban’s principal patron. The Taliban works with the Indian army in Kashmir and operates in the area of Kangan on the outskirts of Srinagar. The Muslim Mujahedin, another group, operates around Anantnag and works with the STF. It has taken over many of the patrolling responsibilities of the security forces.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

A witness who was abducted by Ikhwan-ul Muslimoon forces told Human Rights Watch that he was detained at a house adjacent to an army Rashtriya Rifles camp at Umarheer, Ahmed Nagar, Baspara, three kilometers from Soura hospital. A Rashtriya Rifles bunker stands at the entrance to the house.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

The report is dated 1996, Hmmm when blood was flowing in kashmir everyday, when thousands pakistan sponsored 'freedom fighters' surrendered (i think in 1992) and created pro indian militias. this is an anti terrorism tactic used by many forces - like the awakening councils in iraq or the tribal lashkars in pakistan.

Many of these people have been reformed now and with violence in kashmir going down have been made jobless and been disarmed.

 

[roadrunner]

The report is dated 1996, Hmmm when blood was flowing in kashmir everyday, when thousands pakistan sponsored 'freedom fighters' surrendered (i think in 1992) and created pro indian militias. this is an anti terrorism tactic used by many forces - like the awakening councils in iraq or the tribal lashkars in pakistan.

Many of these people have been reformed now and with violence in kashmir going down have been made jobless and been disarmed.

You're missing the point.

It shows that the Indian Army does support Jihadi radical Muslim groups. It creates them for its own ends.

It is quite possible, perhaps likely, that Jihadi Muslims that are operating in Pakistan, against the interests of Pakistan.. are being supported by the Indian Army to carry out these acts that disrupt Pakistan's economy.

The fact they're Muslim, if they are, doesn't mean a lot.

 

[notsuperstitious]

You're missing the point.

It shows that the Indian Army does support Jihadi radical Muslim groups. It creates them for its own ends.

It is quite possible, perhaps likely, that Jihadi Muslims that are operating in Pakistan, against the interests of Pakistan.. are being supported by the Indian Army to carry out these acts that disrupt Pakistan's economy.

The fact they're Muslim, if they are, doesn't mean a lot.

Yes its possible. As is anything else. however it doesn't show that the Indian Army supports Jihadi radical Muslim groups. It only shows that indian security forces have used kashmiri muslim counter insurgency groups which were NOT jihadi (islamist) but pro india.

There's a HUGE difference.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes its possible. As is anything else. however it doesn't show that the Indian Army supports Jihadi radical Muslim groups. It only shows that indian security forces have used kashmiri muslim counter insurgency groups which were NOT jihadi (islamist) but pro india.

There's a HUGE difference.

Mumbo jumbo.

Indian security forces have supported these Jihadi Muslim groups in Kashmir.

What do you think Ikhwaan-ul-Musalmoon is? A non Jihadi Hindu group? Or how about the Taliban? You think they are not a Jihadi group? They are both Jihadi oufits in Kashmir, and both are supported by the Indian Army. They support covert ops in Kashmir, and extra-judicial actions.

The security forces have also been complicit in these crimes. During the journalists' kidnaping, Ikhwan forces were waved through security checkpoints after they had given a prearranged password. The paramilitaries operate in close proximity to army and BSF camps. Some members of these groups have been housed in the camps.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

Read that. Tell me if Ikhwaan-ul-Muslimoon (a Muslim Jihadi outfit) are not supported by the Indian Army?

 

[belarusian]

the united states has done worse things or the same things as what india is alleged to be doing in this thread. and so has pakistan. for the sake of victory what wont we do? but we have the moral right because we were attacked. and so were you. but you are not us!

the objective should be for all three countries to climb out of this cesspool.

we have some truly disgusting allies in afghanistan in particular. theoretically its only temporary.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Mumbo jumbo.

Indian security forces have supported these Jihadi Muslim groups in Kashmir.

What do you think Ikhwaan-ul-Musalmoon is? A non Jihadi Hindu group? Or how about the Taliban? You think they are not a Jihadi group? They are both Jihadi oufits in Kashmir, and both are supported by the Indian Army. They support covert ops in Kashmir, and extra-judicial actions.

The security forces have also been complicit in these crimes. During the journalists' kidnaping, Ikhwan forces were waved through security checkpoints after they had given a prearranged password. The paramilitaries operate in close proximity to army and BSF camps. Some members of these groups have been housed in the camps.
UNHCR | Refworld | India's Secret Army in Kashmir: New Patterns of Abuse Emerge in the Conflict

Read that. Tell me if Ikhwaan-ul-Muslimoon (a Muslim Jihadi outfit) are not supported by the Indian Army?

Sir, India has indeed used them as a counter insurgenc group. Yes, just like ur tribal lashkars. They have also disarmed / reformed them when the violence died down. My point is, they are NOT Jihadi (read islamist) orgs, just because they have arabic names. An Islamist org will go against the very root of india.

I also said, its possible that India supports groups in pakistan, but that can in no way be concluded based on india's use of counter insurgency groups in kashmir.

I'll again point out, the report dates back to May 1996, so details even earlier events.

 

[roadrunner]

the united states has done worse things or the same things as what india is alleged to be doing in this thread. and so has pakistan. for the sake of victory what wont we do? but we have the moral right because we were attacked. and so were you. but you are not us!

the objective should be for all three countries to climb out of this cesspool.

we have some truly disgusting allies in afghanistan in particular. theoretically its only temporary.

worse things have been done. However, the notion that radical bearded Jihadis cannot be supplied, supported, and controlled even, by a Hindu hand can be disproven through these examples.

Some radical Muslims do not mind joining hands with non Muslims if it achieves their goals. The Lahore attacks might very well have originated in India from some Hindus, even if it was Muslims that carried out the attacks.

 

[Bhishma]

Use of reformed militants cannot be compared with Jehadi organizations. These people are hired by the government on either a small salary or simply in exchange for amnesty, and they act as informants or else spies to infiltrate the militant ranks.

They have no ideological agenda, hindu or Islamist.

 

[Bhishma]

worse things have been done. However, the notion that radical bearded Jihadis cannot be supplied, supported, and controlled even, by a Hindu hand can be disproven through these examples.

Some radical Muslims do not mind joining hands with non Muslims if it achieves their goals. The Lahore attacks might very well have originated in India from some Hindus, even if it was Muslims that carried out the attacks.

Lot of things seem possible if you use tenuous links to build your case.

However, considering the knowledge and planning required to stage this attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, it is most likely that only a local militant outfit could have been responsible.

I feel that you are somehow trying to find a way to link the attack with India, using selective evidence to make your arguments.

 

[Bull]

You're missing the point.

It shows that the Indian Army does support Jihadi radical Muslim groups. It creates them for its own ends.

It is quite possible, perhaps likely, that Jihadi Muslims that are operating in Pakistan, against the interests of Pakistan.. are being supported by the Indian Army to carry out these acts that disrupt Pakistan's economy.

The fact they're Muslim, if they are, doesn't mean a lot.

Your argument seems flawed. You accuse IA of creating Jihadi organisations in Kashmir to do the dirty work, now using the same logic it should be said PA also creates its own jihadi organisations in NWFP to do the dirty work.

Blaming IA for both Kashmir and NWFP show pure hatred and not logic.