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Must Read: Crying wolf: The narrative of the ‘Delhi church attacks’ flies in the face of facts

Somehow i agree with you
Thing is I don't fully agree with myself. Like I don't like non veg food anymore. But at times I have to taste it. This is not in the best taste, but alas, incumbent upon us. It is upon us what kind of India we leave for the future generation. An India that is strong, proud and efficient or one that is on the verge of another bloody Partition.
 
Thing is I don't fully agree with myself. Like I don't like non veg food anymore. But at times I have to taste it. This is not in the best taste, but alas, incumbent upon us. It is upon us what kind of India we leave for the future generation. An India that is strong, proud and efficient or one that is on the verge of another bloody Partition.

I fear that the next time India partions due to religion it will be like Yugoslavia
 
I fear that the next time India partions due to religion it will be like Yugoslavia

actually i wouldn't mind if it creates a big israel , with hindus finally realizing their mistakes over the centuries . Even with a smaller piece of land we can be a force in the world , but we should keep our lands clean from garbage . No more sympathies , no more gandhi talk . That would be much better in fact than the current day situation .

just look at israel
 
I fear that the next time India partions due to religion it will be like Yugoslavia
No more partition of our ancestral land!Our forefathers were naive enough to split this country on the basis of religion in the first place but i believe that the present generation is much more rational and have a practical mindset.Any kind of separatist movement based on religion in the near future will be ruthlessly put down by the Govt. of India.India is a Dharmic country by nature with over 83% Dharmic population and it will remain so in the foreseeable future:coffee:!!
 
No more partition of our ancestral land!Our forefathers were naive enough to split this country on the basis of religion in the first place but i believe that the present generation is much more rational and have a practical mindset.Any kind of separatist movement based on religion in the near future will be ruthlessly put down by the Govt. of India.India is a Dharmic country by nature with over 83% Dharmic population and it will remain so in the foreseeable future:coffee:!!

& we should make sure to keep it Dharmic
 
No more partition of our ancestral land!Our forefathers were naive enough to split this country on the basis of religion in the first place but i believe that the present generation is much more rational and have a practical mindset.Any kind of separatist movement based on religion in the near future will be ruthlessly put down by the Govt. of India.India is a Dharmic country by nature with over 83% Dharmic population and it will remain so in the foreseeable future:coffee:!!
& we should make sure to keep it Dharmic

but how do you guys plan to do it with an exploding muslim population , lets be practical .
 
1st Muslim population is not exploding
2nd I don't know,you have any ideas

are you still believing those swept under the carpet census numbers of secular govts . Well i have some bad ideas in my mind .
 
but how do you guys plan to do it with an exploding muslim population , lets be practical .
Well if we can't out breed them then lets divide them on the basis of their factional feuds.A third of India's Muslim population is Shia who are historically extremely pro-Indian,hence the first logical step is to ensure their full fledged loyalty and support for our country by providing them with all kinds of goodies and at the same time make sure that they don't reconcile under any circumstance with their Sunni counterparts.Now that leaves us with the Sunni population who are more or less 2/3rd of the total.Now we all know that the Sunnis are divided into many sub-sects like the Barelvis,Deobandis,Wahabbis and so on.So it will be quite easy for us to play the divisive cards among them so that they would never ever become an united force in the Indian political arena.We have to play by the rules of the Great Chanakya if we want to ensure the survival of this country in the near future.All things are fair when it comes to the unity and integrity of our Motherland:coffee:.
 
It's actually the media. The English media sells news to the English speaking 'aam aadmi'. A majority of them are actually self hating Hindus. The media itself is neither secular nor communal. They just sell whatever sells. The readership is anti Hindu, hence the papers are anti Hindu. Read the Urdu or Hindi dailies - they are quite different. Go to tier two cities - again vastly different.


There is no objective way of knowing what people want. TV channels do not know whether their channel is popular or how many people are viewing their channel. Whatever little information could be gleaned from circulation of newpapers indicate thet majority of poeple have no interest in politics and are more concerned with celebrity gossip.

The ideological tilt of media is dependent more on what it's purveyors thinks english speaking aam aadmi want, not what it's readership really wants. NDTV et al are anti hindu because they are manned by passouts of JNU who in their ganga dhaba bubble thinks that everyone, specially engish speaking person is a flaming hindu hater from SFI and they construct their material based on that stereotype.

Of course the complete monopoly of left on non-technical academic institutes in India ,something actively promoted by Congress, helps as it ensures that there would no well trained journalists with right wing leanings.
 
Is the Christian community in Delhi under threat now that the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is in power? Many people would like you to think so.

Since December 2014, six specific incidents, all in Delhi, of alleged attacks on churches and, most recently, on a Christian school have been widely reported and commented upon by the media, both domestic and foreign.

The burden of this spate of reportage and commentary is to suggest that the recent attacks reflect a broader trend of rising intolerance against religious minorities, in this instance Christians in particular. It’s also suggested that this, in turn, is a result, either directly or indirectly, of the rise to power of Narendra Modi and the BJP in May 2014

Even US President Barack Obama chose to pinpoint the issue of religious intolerance in India in widely publicised speeches, both in India and on his return to the US. While he made no specific mention of the BJP being responsible, his comments were widely read as a veiled critique of the Modi government.

While it’s hard to quantify the impact, the church attacks also figured in the recently concluded Delhi assembly election which swept the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) and Arvind Kejriwal to a landslide victory. Minority communities, both Muslim and Christian , appear to have heavily favoured the AAP, and church leaders in the recent past have made no secret of the fact that their preferred party was indeed AAP. In fact, in the aftermath of AAP’s victory in the Delhi elections, the Catholic Archbishop Anil Joseph Thomas Couto celebrated the BJP’s defeat.

It’s routinely assumed that Hindu groups support the BJP, which many do. Yet many in the mainstream establishment refuse to acknowledge the obvious fact that minority religious groups, both Muslim and Christian, themselves play an overtly political role.

It’s no wonder then that church leaders, including the same archbishop, have proclaimed there’s a pattern to these recent alleged attacks.

But do the facts actually bear out the claims being made? In a word: no.

The first of these six alleged attacks, the fire that resulted in the burning of St. Sebastian Church in Dilshad Garden, is currently under investigation by a Special Investigative Team (SIT) set up by the Home Ministry shortly after the incident occurred in December.

In a second incident in Jasola it was alleged that a group of miscreants threw a stone and shattered a window pane. The police commissioner, as reported here by a news editor and here said it was due to a group of kids playing outside, which resulted in a stone landing inside the church. There is no evidence as yet of any communal angle.

The third incident in Rohini, in which the Christmas crib was charred, was determined by the police to be the result of an electrical short circuit.

The fourth incident in Vikaspuri, in which a small group of men allegedly vandalised a church, turned out to be the result of a drunken dare. What’s more, they were caught on CCTV and arrested shortly thereafter by the police and have confessed to the crime. Again, there’s no evidence whatsoever of a communal angle.

The fifth incident in Vasant Kunj, allegedly a case of burglary, is currently under investigation by the police.

The sixth and most recent incident, in Vasant Vihar, of a burglary at a Christian school, has been determined by the police and the school itself to be a case of theft— Rs. 8,000 was reported to have been stolen — again, no communal angle.

And, according to the Delhi Police themselves, there’s no evidence whatever that these six incidents in Dilshad Garden, Jasola, Rohini, Vikaspuri, Vasant Kunj and Vasant Vihar are related or part of a pattern of attacks on minority institutions. Further, again according to the police themselves, and as noted above, there’s no evidence that communal sentiment animated any of these attacks.

It’s also necessary to keep the nature and quantum of these incidents in the proper perspective.
According to the Delhi Police’s own statistics, in 2014 there were 155,654 incidents of crime in the city, of which there were 10,309 burglaries and 42,634 “other” incidents of theft, that is not involving motor vehicles or houses. Total crimes reported almost doubled from 2013 to 2014, reflecting, according to the police themselves, more diligent filing of reports by them rather than a huge jump in the incidence of crime.

Crucially, it’s not just churches that are periodically vandalised and robbed in India. With incidents of theft alone, according to the Delhi Police, 206 temples, 30 gurdwaras and three churches (out of some 200 or more churches in Delhi) and 14 mosques were burgled in 2014. And such crimes didn’t mysteriously start to occur in May 2014 after the BJP’s victory — as with other crimes, they routinely occur every year in Delhi as the data show.

Despite the facts pointing in one direction, church leaders and commentators, both in the domestic and foreign media who parrot their line, continue to insist that there’s a pattern to the incidents, the motivation is communal, and the BJP or affiliated groups are somehow responsible. An entire narrative of a rising tide of religious intolerance in India has been crafted, on the back of unpersuasive evidence, such as these six incidents and misinformation around the conversion and reconversion debate in India.

Even in an open and shut case like the Vikaspuri incident in which the perpetrators were caught and confessed to the drunken dare, Archbishop Cuoto maintains in the face of the evidence that he was dissatisfied with the police explanation, without explaining how the CCTV footage and the perpetrators’ own confession somehow bears a different interpretation.

Of course, the police aren’t infallible, and if church leaders or those who toe their line have any evidence of a communal angle or the involvement of Hindu groups in any of these incidents, they’re surely obliged to come forward with whatever facts they may have to back up their assertions. They haven't done so, which suggests that their assertions are based on prejudice or a pre-determined agenda, not facts.

Unfortunately, the authorities reinforce the erroneous impression that minorities are under threat when, for example, as reported here they propose to set up special protection for minority religious institutions in Delhi. As we’ve seen, houses of worship of all faiths are subject to burglary and vandalism, so why extend this preferential treatment to only minority institutions? Aren’t temples equally worthy of protection?

This is where the Modi government must step up to the plate and improve the messaging. Reacting passively and with a lag to loud cries that minorities are under attack only reinforces that narrative of persecution. What is needed is a positive counter-narrative which stresses that the problem is not crimes against Christians but the larger problem of law and order, which affects everyone regardless of religious affiliation.

And all of us should be asking why exactly are church leaders and their friends in the media so eager to establish there’s a communal angle to these recent incidents when the facts say the opposite? What are they hoping to gain?

Church leaders and their media acolytes have every right to dislike the BJP or Hindu groups if they so wish. But it’s irresponsible and downright dangerous if they promote their agenda in the face of the facts.

Crying wolf: The narrative of the ‘Delhi church attacks’ flies in the face of facts - Firstpost

@The_Showstopper , @Guynextdoor2 @isupportaap @SarthakGanguly @seiko
Try convincing secular flag bearers & main stream media... they would still like to bury their head in the sand & keep pretending as if everything has a communal angle... & most importantly Modi is to blame! If you go to the root of the issue.. & find out that this is all perpetrated by those so called seculars, shouldn't be a surprise at all!
 
Try convincing secular flag bearers & main stream media... they would still like to bury their head in the sand & keep pretending as if everything has a communal angle... & most importantly Modi is to blame! If you go to the root of the issue.. & find out that this is all perpetrated by those so called seculars, shouldn't be a surprise at all!

I sent the link to Christian friend of mine on Whatsapp and did try to concince him. He started finding faults in the article, somewhat dissappointed that RSS or Modi cant be blamed anymore !
 
Our support is immaterial. Reconversion back to Hinduism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Jainism/etc should be supported by the Government and it needs to be given incentives. Say a family converts to Buddhism in the North East from Presbitherian denomination - and they will get a monthly allowance of Rs.10000 pm from the State.

We already provide (constitutionally illegal) separate electorates. So this can be accommodated as well. In a Five Year Plan, close to 90 to 92% Dharmic strength should be reached.

I do not think monetary inducement to conversion by government would be a good strategy. First, Psychological research has shown that alturistic motivation could be much more stronger than monetary ones. I am attaching relevent portion of a book (whole book could not be attached due to limitation of upload limit of 2MB) which would make a good read for anyone who is interested in scientific techniques for ghar wapsi.It is a book about heuristics and is named Sway.


Appealing to history and culture to a group which is recently converted,stoking pride, and at the same time making it unappealing to convert into semetic religions by insinuating that all converts are characterless people doing it for money would give a much better result.


GoI could cut life support of missionaries by making it difficult to get funds from abroad. This does not even require any overt action. This would finish off missionaries like termites finish wood ie without any outside sign of decay. (something which I think government is doing, hence this hostility against government)
 

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You guys are reading it wrong.

What you are seeing is the after effects of the Christian domination of education institutions in India and its effects on the Media and general public.

All those convent educated kids who then go to St. Xaviers (example) end up convinced about the benevolent nature of Christianity and worse, they feel some sort of debt to the religion.

You want to exit Alice in wonderland, take back all the land stolen from the people of India or make these educational institutions free of religious control. Make them public property and public institutions.
 

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