Muslims Emigrating Abroad

[Naif al Hilali]

“Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!”
[al-Nisa’ 4:97].

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The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (2645) in his Sunnan and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani.

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“Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and fighting in His Cause, then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the people who are Al‑Faasiqoon (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah)”
[al-Tawbah 9:24]

 

[Indus Falcon]

Please do elaborate, those living in the west- where should they emigrate to? and those living in the east - where should they go?

 

[my2cents]

If you cannot practice your faith then I can understand that statement. Almost all countries in the world allow muslims to practice their faith freely. Some social norms like beef eating is not allowed in some states of India, by and large muslims are given free hand to practice their faith. In some western countries burqa is not allowed but you are not restricted to practice islam. In globalized world people move freely and are allowed to practice their religion. There are very few countries that are insular in nature and most are to be found in middle east.

 

[Moonlight]

Please do elaborate, those living in the west- where should they emigrate to? and those living in the east - where should they go?

I don't understand why people simply take an ayah from the Quran and present it as their argument. When this ayah was revealed, under what circumstances, background & history & implementation of this particular ayah according to Hadiths is what.

I don't know why people do that.

 

[SQ8]

Bismillah ar rahman ar raheem.

May Allah forgive me if I am wrong and guide me correct.


The first Ayah is incomplete without the next, please post it as well because that ayah alone is misleading.
In addition, the first Ayah refers to location where Islam cannot be practised freely and without persecution so it is generally invalid for today's west and a lot of today's east as well. Burma would be an exception today where this Ayah might be somewhat applicable, but then the next Ayah is the precondition.

As such, the Ayat is not enough to form any basis for the pretext of the thread as it refers more to those not practising Islam by fear of public reprisal(or opinion) and not those who are able to practice it freely. Hence it is completely invalid for what you propose.

I am surprised and disappointed that you decided to take an excerpt from Abu Dawood without quoting the entire Hadiath, that is poor research methodology. ESPECIALLY IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES. However, it is a common trend among muslims to do part research and context after which propagating the same repackaged idea is forwarded and this Hadiath is consistently propogated in all sites linked to muslim migrants almost in a copy paste fashion.

This is the complete one:
It was reported from Isma’il, from Qais, from Jarir bin ‘Abdullah, that he said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) sent an expedition to Kath’am, where some people sought protection by prostrating. They were killed quickly.” He said: “The Prophet (saw) was told about the incident, and he ordered that half of the blood money be paid for them, and he said: ‘I am not responsible for any Muslim who lives among idolaters.’ They said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! Why?’ He said: ‘They should not see each other’s fires.’” (Da’if)


First, one scholar is not enough to accept a hadiath as sahih, it is always better to focus on those with consensus from different schools of thought.

Second.. the people who sought protection by prostrating- you left this key aspect out that it was an expedition sent to a foreign land where an incident took place whereby Muslims decided to stay in the area(for whatsoever reasons) and decided to forgo practice of their religion in committing shirk(even if to save their lives) when they were capable of leaving and returning.
The prophet's words reportedly here reflect that he was aware that they could have returned and his only paying half the blood price extends that notion that he did not want them to stay there but they did anyway.

Again, none of it applicable to modern western or eastern societies or even in those times in the context you propose. Many expeditions were sent to MANY places because that is HOW Islam was propagated.

The Ayah from Surah Taubah is completely irrelevant, it is focused on those who decide to forgo Jihad and its commitments by non-participation.

 

[Moonlight]

Bismillah ar rahman ar raheem.

May Allah forgive me if I am wrong and guide me correct.


The first Ayah is incomplete without the next, please post it as well because that ayah alone is misleading.
In addition, the first Ayah refers to location where Islam cannot be practised freely and without persecution so it is generally invalid for today's west and a lot of today's east as well. Burma would be an exception today where this Ayah might be somewhat applicable, but then then next Ayah is the precondition.

As such, the Ayat is not enough to form any basis for the pretext of the thread as it refers more to those not practising Islam by fear of public reprisal(or opinion) and not those who are able to practice it freely. Hence it is completely invalid for what you propose.

I am surprised and disappointed that you decided to take an excerpt from Abu Dawood without quoting the entire Hadiath, that is poor research methodology. ESPECIALLY IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES. However, it is a common trend among muslims to do part research and context after which propagating the same repackaged idea is forwarded and this Hadiath is consistently propogated in all sites linked to muslim migrants almost in a copy paste fashion.

This is the complete one:
It was reported from Isma’il, from Qais, from Jarir bin ‘Abdullah, that he said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) sent an expedition to Kath’am, where some people sought protection by prostrating. They were killed quickly.” He said: “The Prophet (saw) was told about the incident, and he ordered that half of the blood money be paid for them, and he said: ‘I am not responsible for any Muslim who lives among idolaters.’ They said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! Why?’ He said: ‘They should not see each other’s fires.’” (Da’if)


First, one scholar is not enough to accept a hadiath as sahih, it is always better to focus on those with consensus from different schools of thought.

Second.. the people who sought protection by prostrating- you left this key aspect out that it was an expedition sent to a foreign land where an incident took place whereby Muslims decided to stay in the area(for whatsoever reasons) and decided to forgo practice of their religion in committing shirk(even if to save their lives) when they were capable of leaving and returning.
The prophet's words reportedly here reflect that he was aware that they could have returned and his only paying half the blood price extends that notion that he did not want them to stay there but they did anyway.

Again, none of it applicable to modern western or eastern societies.

The Ayah from Surah Taubah is completely irrelevant, it is focused on those who decide to forgo Jihad and its commitments by non-participation.

Interestingly, some best speakers and scholars and mufti are from western countries.

 

[CriticalThought]

First question: is this thread off topic? @Oscar @Aether @waz @Horus

Second: if someone is going abroad they should talk with actual religious scholar and seek a fatwa because individual circumstances differ and you can't paint everyone with the same brush

 

[SQ8]

Interestingly, some best speakers and scholars and mufti are from western countries.

western or eastern is irrelevant. This is a common ignorant misconception being thrown about Muslim emigrants by certain vested interests within existing Muslim Majority countries due to their fear of these western Muslim scholars taking their "earnings" in followers and so on. Especially since the Western located scholars tend to attract the newer modern crowd via English and implied modernity.

I take neither side, but common sense and looking into Islamic history would show that a LARGE percentage of Islam was spread BY emigrants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with emigrating, the only objection made is to those that decide to give up remembering Allah in their attempt to be more acceptable to non-muslims.

First question: is this thread off topic? @Oscar @Aether @waz @Horus

Second: if someone is going abroad they should talk with actual religious scholar and seek a fatwa because individual circumstances differ and you can't paint everyone with the same brush

I am only allowing it because it needs to be settled.

Also, who is actual religious scholar? I dont see anywhere in the Quran where it provided anyone with that stamp, nor did the Prophet pass on a stamp other than the knowledge imparted to the companions and the mothers.

There were formal schools established MUCH MUCH later, and many informal ones.
it is knowledge and not institutions that define a scholar.
As such, today actual scholars are rare.

Many muftis though.

 

[Moonlight]

western or eastern is irrelevant. This is a common ignorant misconception being thrown about Muslim emigrants by certain vested interests within existing Muslim Majority countries due to their fear of these western Muslim scholars taking their "earnings" in followers and so on. Especially since the Western located scholars tend to attract the newer modern crowd via English and implied modernity.

I take neither side, but common sense and looking into Islamic history would show that a LARGE percentage of Islam was spread BY emigrants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with emigrating, the only objection made is to those that decide to give up remembering Allah in their attempt to be more acceptable to non-muslims.


I am only allowing it because it needs to be settled.

Also, who is actual religious scholar? I dont see anywhere in the Quran where it provided anyone with that stamp, nor did the Prophet pass on a stamp other than the knowledge imparted to the companions and the mothers.

There were formal schools established MUCH MUCH later, and many informal ones.
it is knowledge and not institutions that define a scholar.
As such, today actual scholars are rare.

Many muftis though.

I agree with you, sir. But my point was, non Muslim countries have given some best scholars and representatives.
If it was not allowed to live in non Muslim countries, so why are they still living there. This argument op making here is so baseless.

 

[CriticalThought]

I am only allowing it because it needs to be settled.

Also, who is actual religious scholar? I dont see anywhere in the Quran where it provided anyone with that stamp, nor did the Prophet pass on a stamp other than the knowledge imparted to the companions and the mothers.

There were formal schools established MUCH MUCH later, and many informal ones.
it is knowledge and not institutions that define a scholar.
As such, today actual scholars are rare.

Many muftis though.

Our beloved Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi Wasallam has left no pitfall unaddressed which his followers may encounter right up till the day of judgement. The topic of worldly scholars, their attributes are explained extensively in Ahadith. Fazail-e-sadaqaat has an entire portion that treats this subject.

If a Muslim has a true love for Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi Wasallam and a strong desire to follow the right path he WILL be guided towards the right people.

 

[Moonlight]

fatwa

Mannn seriously? Now we need a fatwa before moving to western country? We need to stop with this fatwa game. It's not a candy that you can give to everyone.
So those da'ae go to western countries for the dawah purpose need a fatwa too?

As long as you are free to worship your god and free to carry out your religious duties, you are good to go and live any part of thr world.

 

[CriticalThought]

Mannn seriously? Now we need a fatwa before moving to western country? We need to stop with this fatwa game. It's not a candy that you can give to everyone.
So those da'ae go to western countries for the dawah purpose need a fatwa too?

As long as you are free to worship your god and free to carry out your religious duties, you are good to go and live any part of thr world.

I don't know what you understand by the word 'fatwa' but here is my understanding. It is a ruling made by a scholar or a group of scholars who are considered an authority by the majority in a certain school of thought. Pious Muslims seek it for all matters of life, from business and trade to relationships and mannerisms. The ruling is based on Quran and Sunnah and the principles of jurisprudence followed by that school of thought. With reputable places, it has a reference number so anyone can go back and discuss the ruling. They also take your contact information so that if a mistake is made due to human error they can contact you. There is absolutely no charge for this service and yet people dedicate their lives to it due to their love of Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Aalihi Wasallam

 

[Indus Pakistan]

you are good to go and live any part of thr world.

I see your a ardent secularist like me. Your saying you can be a good Muslim without living in a Islamic Republic which negates any reason for having a Islamic Republic.

Adduced logic?

 

[I.R.A]

4:99

Except for the oppressed among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan nor are they directed to a way -

4:100

For those it is expected that Allah will pardon them, and Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.

To migrate would be to leave your own country, your own home, your ancestors' land.............. I didn't get how this is applicable to a Muslim who left e.g. Pakistan and went to another country for say employment and still is able to fulfill his duties as a Muslim without much restriction?

 

[Moonlight]

you can be a good Muslim without living in a Islamic Republic

Why not.

which negates any reason for having a Islamic Republic.

No wait that's a different thing. Not in every society you are free to practice your religion. Additionally, with majority Muslim population, you ask for Islamic laws.