Muslim sailors reached America before Colombus - Turkish President Erdogan

[shuntmaster]

I read somewhere that the native americans (red Indians, Aztecs, Incas etc.) were originally from Tibet

 

[shuntmaster]

Off course he said "Namaste "

That's very much possible since he thought he had landed in 'India'

 

[shuntmaster]

Do you want to advertise your ignorance and twisted mind with everyone on the forum?
This is based on facts that you have to look for before opening a dirty ignorant mouth. Where have you seen that the North American Indians mastered see sailing?
Do not try to troll more, your number of posts and the number of negative ratings you have got say a lot about you . So please next time just ignore posts you do not understand, or have no knowledge about.

There is a theory that the Native Americans crossed over from Siberia to Alaska via the Bering strait.

 

[Kompromat]

Meanwhile in Australia.

BBC News - When Islam came to Australia

 

[niaz]

There is record of trade links between Abbasids & Tang dynasty of China as early as mid-8th century. However it would be impossible to reach Cuba from the East except via Cape Horn which is out of the question considering status of ship building & navigation of the time.

Strait of Gibraltar is only 14 kilometres wide at its narrowest point, thus crossing into Spain hardly counts as a maritime achievement. Earliest recorded Muslim maritime activity in the Mediterranean was piracy by the Muslim privateers based in Crete during the 9th century. However, from 9th century until conquest of Constantinople in 1453, most maritime trade was in the hands of the Genoese & the Venetians and Ottoman sailors were not known to venture beyond the Mediterranean.

Barbary pirates also known as Barbary corsairs who had official backing of the Ottoman Sultans, were most active during 16th Century when the whole of North African coast was called the Barbary Coast. Most famous being the being Khairuddin Pasha ,who along with his brothers Oruc & Ishaq started work as a private corsair based at Algiers but later became a subject of the Ottoman Sultan. With him as an admiral, Ottomans were the main maritime power from 1538 to 1571 when nearly all the European powers combined to beat Ottoman fleet at the battle of Lepanto in 1571.

Corsair’s boats were capable of long ocean voyages but there is little record of maritime activity by the Ottoman or Moor corsairs beyond the Mediterranean. Understand some European privateers had also joined Barbary pirates and were based on the North African coast such as English man Henry Mainwaring during the 17th century. It said that Corsairs learnt blue water navigation from them. All this was however after 1492 when Columbus discovered America.

Corsair’s main activity was capture of merchant vessels and the slave trade, and it is remotely possible that a very adventurous Muslim Corsair may have ventured as far as Cuba in search of slaves a few years before Columbus.

Personally I don’t believe that this assertion is true but it is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

P.S.
In response to Hon Shuntmaster' s post. Understand that People of Mongol/ North East Siberian origin crossed the Bering Sea ( it was frozen at that time) following the end of last ice age about 15,000 years ago and slowly spread south down the Pacific Coast and subsequently towards the Atlantic coast. However there were at least 2 genetic groups, one remained restricted to North America while the other took the coastal route to Tierra del Fuego. I am afraid I don't know a lot more about it.

 

[The SC]

There is a theory that the Native Americans crossed over from Siberia to Alaska via the Bering strait.

Still, Siberia is in the most northern part of Asia,, with the mongoloid features, they must have came from Mongolia to which even China is related. So the theory is quite plausible too, but it might be restrained to the Esquimo or the northern glaciers Indians. They still exist through the whole norther pole area from Russia to Canada and Alaska. Maybe some tribes went south and populated other Areas of North and South America. But contact with other ancient civilizations they must have had.

 

[k_arura]

Pictures in order: 1.) Turkish President Erdogan 2.) Ortakoy Mosque in Istanbul 3.) Barry Fell, Saga America 4.) Cuban Muslims Listen to verses from the Qu'ran
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan says the Muslim faith was “widespread” in America before the arrival of Columbus in the 15th century, and insists that a massive mosque should be erected in Havana, despite the city's refusal to grant a building permit.

"The religion of Islam was widespread before Columbus," the longtime Turkish leader told the audience at the first ever Latin American Muslim leaders summit in Istanbul, as cited by Hurriyet Daily News.

"Muslim sailors had arrived in the shores of America in 1178. In his diaries, Christopher Columbus referred to the presence of a mosque on top of a mountain in Cuba."

The claim comes from a 1996paperfrom Youssef Mroueh of the As-Sunnah Foundation of America.

"Columbus admitted in his papers that on Monday, October 21, 1492 CE while his ship was sailing near Gibara on the north-east coast of Cuba, he saw a mosque on top of a beautiful mountain," it alleges.

The veracity of this statement has been comprehensively disproved in the past.

The actual quote comes from a log of Columbus' first journey in 1492, as recorded decades later by historian Bartholome de Casas, but it was made on October 29 – likely near a different part of Cuba than claimed by Mroueh. Most importantly, it explicitly does not imply that Christopher Columbus saw an actual mosque – only a hill that looked like a minaret.

“Remarking on the position of the river and port, to which he gave the name of San Salvador, he describes its mountains as lofty and beautiful, like the Pena de las Enamoradas, and one of them has another little hill on its summit, like a graceful mosque,”readsthe entry from the de Casas chronicle.

Even if this claim is easily debunked, it is part of a growing volume of Muslim that seeks to prove that Islam pre-dated Christianity in the New World, using circumstantial evidence. This idea itself has gained traction in swathes of the Islamic world.

Among the usual pieces of proof that form the backbone of the argument is a 1980 paper by Harvard academic Barry Fell, who claimed that some of the ancient engravings in the Americas resembled Muslim fonts.

There are also references to various trans-Atlantic journeys by Muslims made as far back as the 11th century, of explorers bringing back hoards of gold, using the relatively sophisticated navigational equipment possessed by the Islamic world at the time.

Alternative theories additionally propose that common Indian proper names were bastardizations of Islamic terms. For example, they claim that 'Seminole' is actually the Turkish 'Sami nal' or 'Semites who ran away,' while 'Shawnee,' another tribe name, is derivative of 'sah ne' which means the 'Great Shah.'

No actual archaeological links – be it buildings or artifacts – suggesting contact between the Muslim world and that of pre-Colombian Indians have been unearthed.

'Rebuilding' the Havana mosqueBut Erdogan believes the “re-popularization” of Islamic culture can begin, starting with a new mosque back in Cuba.

“Now I will speak to my Cuban brother [the country’s delegate at the forum]. A mosque will suit well on top of that mountain today, too. Their permission is enough,” said Erdogan.

The newly-elected Turkish president has contrasted the impact of Islam and Christianity on newly-converted territories.

"Converting people by force, by the sword, has never been a part of Islam. Our religion has never been a tool of exploitation," said 60-year-old Erdogan, who was prime minister from 2003, until moving into his new post in August. In contrast, Erdogan said that European Christians “colonialized America for its gold and Africa for its diamonds, now do it in the Middle East for its oil with the same dirty plot."

Islamic leaders used 'futuhad' – religiously-motivated military campaigns – to rapidly spread the religion through the Middle East and North Africa within a century of the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632 AD. Muslim rulers also forcibly converted millions of locals in Spain and Eastern Europe, in the centuries after. Currently, ISIS, Boko Haram, and other militias around the world, say they are following the teachings of the Koran, by establishing new Muslim territories with jihad.

Problematically, a plan by a Turkish company to construct a 3,500-place mosque for Cuba’s estimated Muslim converts – who number up to 9,000 according to five-year-old Pew Research data – has stalled, in what is officially an atheist state.

The project, modeled on the Ortaköy Mosque in Istanbul, was touted in April, following an official visit by Turkish officials – with a sign in Arabic appearing on the proposed site in Havana.

But in October, Lazo Torres, head of the local Muslim community, said that no permit has been given for the building, prompting reports that the project was rejected by the authorities, which have themselves not commented. Recently, Torres has clarified his statements, saying that the future of the project – which he says will serve the entire community, not just Muslims – remains undecided.

And there were Hindu temples where Mecca's Kaba stands so let us erect a temple right next to it

 

[k_arura]

One thing is for sure, Chinese are proven to have discovered the Americas before anyone else, about 14 000 years ago, one has just to look at the general features of the North American Indians to find out, some resemblances are still too striking to be ignored while others became less visible or faded somehow through time, mixing and adaptation to the particular Environ.
The other evidence of South American Indian's contacts with the middle and far east is in the culture and the undeniable resemblance with the old civilizations in Egypt, the fertile crescent and the Indus valley (The pyramids constitute a good example), Which if we fallow their path, cross China and the pacific, and that is one of the "missing links" that are missing in history books, because the evidence of the resemblances is too real to be ignored.

And I have been told according to ancient Indian scriptures/Vedas there was presence of Indians in
Latin America 10's of thousands of years ago

 

[The SC]

And I have been told according to ancient Indian scriptures/Vedas there was presence of Indians in
Latin America 10's of thousands of years ago

Not sure about it, since we have no evidence of ancient Indians sailing the seas, but we do have concerning the Chinese and the Egyptian ancient civilizations. I had a very serious book about the matter, it was not part of school history books but was written by very serious archaeologists and historian with archaeological and historical proofs. I'll try to find the title and post it on PDF.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

yawn , bring back the img tag forget about havana

 

[Indian Patriot]

It is an accepted point by many scholars including western that Columbus was not the man who discovered America. He may be responsible for the eventual colonisation of America though. The credit goes to some unknown explorer named Amerigo Vespucci. There are also artifacts and other records which show that ancient Vikings used to visit North America for their plundering raids. Columbus was lucky and he got the credit. A new theory is doing the rounds that a Chinese vessel hit the American shores before Columbus. But saying that "muslims" discovered America is taking things a bit too far. This man erdognan is a pucca lunatic.

 

[Indian Patriot]

One thing is for sure, Chinese are proven to have discovered the Americas before anyone else, about 14 000 years ago, one has just to look at the general features of the North American Indians to find out, some resemblances are still too striking to be ignored while others became less visible or faded somehow through time, mixing and adaptation to the particular Environ.
The other evidence of South American Indian's contacts with the middle and far east is in the culture and the undeniable resemblance with the old civilizations in Egypt, the fertile crescent and the Indus valley (The pyramids constitute a good example), Which if we fallow their path, cross China and the pacific, and that is one of the "missing links" that are missing in history books, because the evidence of the resemblances is too real to be ignored.

Entire countries in South East Asia have the same resemblance in physical appearance. Did China discover them too?

All ancient civilisations believed in more or less same cultural beliefs of the fertile goddess which bless them with good crops, the gods who bring rains and good weather etc. These things were needed because they were an agrarian society.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Some one said. Colombus was actually a Muslim. And nobody knew that.

His actual name was "Kalam Abbas"

 

[Indian Patriot]

Erdogan ,
what a Turkish tragedy. I am sure he will claim first Ottoman claim on the moon landing as well.

You should not encourage him.

 

[Indian Patriot]

And what did he mean by "muslims"? Did Indian muslims discover America or Iranian muslims?