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"efforts and sacrifices" !!!! you must be joking. It,s really difficult to explain the entire dynamics of POLITICAL PROCESS in just a few sentences, nevertheless i,ll make an effort to just point to the blunders made by Pervez Musharraf on the political and economic fronts, besides his utter failure in the war against terror.
Just keep in mind that the SUPREME COURT of the country gave him three years to rule like a dictator and amend the constitution .(for which he'd not even requested)
Whereas the same court is making life tough for the political govt right in its infancy.
Remember sir, your economy took a downward slide much before an elected govt was in the driving seat. During the period of interim govt artificial means were being tried to avoid the inevitable burst of the bubble. Let me make one thing clear over here that economy can never grow unless your exports are larger than your imports. Ours being an agro based economy, we can never ever achieve real growth unless we fully exploit our agricultural potential.This includes increase in per acre yield of all crops, ensuring a fair price to the grower, economizing on the available water for irrigation and quite a few other measures. To explain my point in simplest words, i would give you the example of how from 40 kg of wheat seed we get 50 times more produce, this is real growth.Selling cars in the market which will run on imported fuel is not necessarily the true indicator of the economic growth. Luxury items flooded the market but no attention was paid to increase the production of electricity.
Now the power crisis has forced the industries to reduce their production thus laying off labour and making people jobless, moreover unable to meet the orders from international market and losing our share of foreign exchange.
Why didn't P.M. go for dams that were to be so vital for water conservation and cheap power generation ?
Unfortunately the man he chose to give boost to the economy was a banker who would never think beyond monthly, half yearly and yearly closings and/or making profits. This is what Shaukat Aziz did and the moment he left the economy came tumbling down. Had their been real economic growth, its momentum would have carried us to at least 2 to 3 years before coming to a standstill.
On political front the matters were handled in the crudest manner possible. The way an artificial political party was cobbled together before 2002 elections and the manner in which matters were handled to break away members of parliament from other parties made the whole process look a farce.
On the war front lesser we talk better it would be. The most unfortunate part of the bluff was its adverse effect on the morale of the troops fighting the insurgents . Lives were lost, troops were ridiculed and it was made to look as if terrorists were superior fighters than the troops of Pak army. The basic principles of war were blatantly violated just to achieve myopic objectives. Aren't these the same troops who have now made the insurgents look like a disorganized bunch ! We've lost officers and soldiers but the pride has been restored. The army has displayed professionalism and commitment to the cause and has come out of the Swat and South Waziristan operations with its head high.
I believe the enlightened moderation gave us five times higher number of madressahs in the country at the end of his tenure as compared to the time of his takeover. The country was knee deep in trouble as far as the internal security situation was concerned. The writ of the state was almost non existant, crime was rampant, corruption was the order of the day and the community suffering the most were the law abiding citizens of the country.
Complete denial mode. I guess you have forgotten the summers without electricity in '07 and '08.Why this power crisis didn't take place in Gen. Musharraf's regime?
Wrong sir ji, there were dams and other projects started in Gen. Musharraf's regime which are now coming to a completion, e.g, Ghazi Barotha project and Bhasha dam etc.
This crisis is artificial so the likes of Raja Ashraf and others can make commission from IPP. A reason for a great fincial mind to resign.
Power crisis is completly the fault of Raja P. Ashraf.
Gen. Musharraf's govt. was able to hold dollar in the 60s and was able to get rid of the IMF which is an accomplishment in itself as it was a major demand from the people of Pakistan.
General Sb's biggest slogan "Ehtesab" was the biggest farce of all. However depotic the 2nd govt of NS was and however politically motivated the Ehtesab Commission was, you have to give them due credit for their work if they did it. NAB has been a complete failure, plea bargains to avoid long court cases thus guilty people going back to US to live for free. Ethesab Commission for the first and only time in our history uncovered "foreign" and "Swiss" accounts. Money trails were uncovered in detail for the first and only time. Senator Saif ur Rehman was an evil guy and all his actions were mere political vengeance but his output was visible. NAB relied only on the earlier evidences to accuse BB/AZ. Evidences of corruption against NS were weak because BB's govt's never managed to do the kind of uncovering the Ehtesab Commission did.Both NS and BB build cases against each other
1. The Ex-PM Sharif and Ex-PM Vajpaee were negotiating for the peace in Lahore, and the renegade Musharraf was sending troops (without taking into confidence the Corp Commanders, the Services Chiefs of Air force and Navy, the PM, the Cabinet) and sabotaging those peace talks between India and Pakistan; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
2. When the PM dismissed him (with full constitutional and legal authority) from his post due to the disobedience and unprofessionalism he showed during Kargil, he reinstated himself unconstitutionally and illegally with the help of the other renegade Corp Commanders and threw the elected PM into the jail and even got him punished in the false accounts by the lower courts; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
3. He allowed the American troops in his country, and gave them airfields to carry out attacks on the neighboring Islamic country; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
4. He sold out undisclosed number of Pakistanis (innocent until proven guilty) to the Americans without first trying them in the Pakistani courts of law; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
5. He instructed his serving General of the political wing of ISI to rig the general elections and brought PML(Q) and so-called Islamic parties into power, and used this illegitimate parliament as a rubber stamp to further his ambitions; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
6. He, through the help of his illegitimate Parliament (result of rigging) and sold-out/oppressed Judges (result of LFO), adulterated the constitution and introduced clauses in order to achieve full amnesty for his unconstitutional actions and illegal rule; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
7. He mishandled the Lal Mosque issue, which resulted in the loss of life (both the civilians and the Army personnel) and resulted in a widespread anger against the regime, and the Army; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
8. He, through his banker PM, Shoukat Aziz sold out the profitable national assets on the rates far below their actual value and not to the highest bidders. Only Pakistan Steel managed to escape and that too because of the intervention of the honorable Chief Justice; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
9. Under his regime, the nation was deliberately and at institutional level misguided on the economical condition/progress. The government’s coffers were artificially inflated due to the money sent home by the overseas Pakistanis post 9/11 and which had nothing to do with the economical policies of his or his banker PM Shoukat Aziz. His banker PM introduced novel and totally misguiding scales of measuring the economical growth, that were, number of cars running on the roads and the cell phones sold; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
10. He dismissed the honorable Justices, put them and their family members under house arrests, and tried to destroy the judiciary; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
11. He patronized a known terrorist lingual organization in Karachi, hired the terrorist elements of this organization to hijack Karachi in order to stop the visit of the CJP and publicly supported their terrorizing actions that included a dozen deaths on May 11; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
12. He mishandled the Balochistan issue, gave a free hand to the Army and intelligence agencies to abduct anybody anywhere. None of the abductees ever presented into the courts of law or given a chance of legal defense. Sardar Akbar Bugti was extra-judicially murdered and his rival clan was ‘awarded’ the right to rule Sui and Dera Bugti; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
13. He introduced the black ordinance called NRO to cut a shameful deal with the exiled political leaders, pardoned them for all their corruption even murder charges in return of the extension of his presidency; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
[/QUOTE]14. He mischievously tried to bag the credit for freeing up the media which in reality was the result of the selfless struggle and sacrifices largely by the press and to some extent electronic media and lots of pressure from the free-media-obsessed Western countries; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
Any other than Aafia Siddique that you can quote ? Even her own disappearance is shrouded in mystery as her family claims she was abducted from Islamabad while her husband says she was abducted from Afghanistan.
Incorrect again, the CoAS cannot be removed with the snap of the fingers and anyways, it's the President's responsibility to appoint people to posts like CoAS and CJ, not the prime minister's.
Actually he was elected President by a people's vote(referendum).
Lal masjid was a very good step, i wish it had been taken earlier......How long can we bear "Dadi Girri" on the name of Islam.
Get a grip, those "Profitable National Assets" were bankrupt and an unnecessary load on the economy.
Dollar remained fixed at Rs.62 for 8 years..................call that misguided.
Conspiracy theories..............................Source ???????????
Incorrect, they were not given bases, they were given logistic "Adday" from where they could move their rations and vehicles to Afghanistan.
Incorrect, NRO was issued to finish old cases in which nothing was being proven but millions of rupees were being spent annually.
Incorrect, Dera Bugti MEANS The Home of Bugtis, how can it be given away ? Check your source, they are still there.
Know any media persons ? Even they accept that Musharraf was behind the growth of media in Pakistan................Don't live in denial.
My friend, you are incorrect. The powers to appoint the services chiefs were with the PM in 1999. Forgotten the power grabbing by NS and "Ameer ul Momineen" fiasco?
.Referendum : Musharraf vs Musharraf. No need to even say anything
Like PSM or PTCL?
Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM): Dealt with these only minutes ago in another thread.
Privatization was to take place in 2006. A 75% share was given to a consortium of Russian Magnitogorsk Iron & Steel Works, Saudi Arabia-based Al-Tuwairqi Group of Companies and Arif Habib Securities (Arif Habib is a famous Shaukat Aziz henchman allegedly involved in many other financial scandals with his buddy). The SC after a suo moto notice by the CJ declared the privatization null and void deeming it in "bad taste", clearly meaning that there were a lot of dirty hands involved in the matter.
It has been speculated that the worth of the land itself was more than the Rs. 21.75 Billion the industry was sold for.
"Speakers on the occasion pointed out that the Rs300 billion worth concern had been handed over to the private sector parties at a throw-away price of Rs21.75 billion"
"The speakers said that according to the PS finance director, the mills had generated Rs26.1 billion revenue in 2000 and its pre-tax profit stood at Rs 4.85 billion. ... in the year 2004-05, the mills had generated Rs 31 billion revenues and its pre-tax profit was Rs10 billion. He had quoted the tax amount paid to the government at Rs8.9 billion"
"The labour leaders pointed out that present value of the PS land, at the current rate of Rs 20 million per acre, was around Rs92 billion whereas the mills’ other assets had been estimated at more than Rs150 billion"
Courtesy : Dawn, May 25 - 2006
So, this raises fingers. An industry that had pre tax profits of Rs. 10 billion was being sold for Rs. 21 billion, hardly a fifth of its value and even less than the revenue it generates. Gross Profit in 2004-2005 was 189 million USD and a 75% share was being sold for 302 million USD.
Enough said. No further arguments necessary.
(you might not be interested, but here is the complete judgment of the PSM case - CONSTITUTION PETITION NO. 9 OF 2006 (Wattan Party through Versus Federation of Pakistan) & CIVIL PETITION NOs. 345(Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union, CBA Versus Federation of Pakistan) & 394 OF 2006(Federation of Pakistan Versus Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union)
No further comments necessary.
PTCL : 26% shares sold to Etisalat in 2005 for 2.598 Billion USD. Even after 5 years, 799.3 million USD have not been paid. PTCL's profits have fallen and its in a complete mess. Privatization only brought more troubles. Shiekh CEOs are hated by the work force as they're eating they company down. Don't say that they've brought DSL or any new services as this will show lack of knowledge in this regard. The issue has been discussed on Pro-Pakistani as well.
"At the time of its privatization in 2005, PTCL had posted revenues of 84 billion rupees, with earnings before interest, tax and depreciation of 54 billion rupees and net profit of 27 billion rupees."
"In the four years post-privatization, earnings fell to almost 11 billion rupees, a rate equivalent to a negative growth of 21 per cent per annum. Similarly, the profit margin (based on EBITDA or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) declined from an average of 71 per cent over the four years prior to privatization to 50 per cent over the four years since privatization"
HBL, UBL : 51% shares of Habib Bank Limited (HBL) shares were sold to the the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (AKFED), a subsidiary of the Aga Khan Development Network, on January 4, 2004, for a bid of Rs 22.4 billion. This bid was allegedly less than the estimated worth of the total existing assets of the bank which are reported to have been around Rs 23.7 billion at that time. This does not include the value of more than 1400 branches inside Pakistan and branches in 26 other countries as well
United Bank Limited (UBL) 25.5% share was sold to a Consortium of Abu Dhabi Group (UAE) & Bestway Holdings Limited (UK) for Rs 12 billion (sometimes referred as 13 billion).
"MCB submitted the highest bid of Rs 8.5 billion. Others two submitted bids worth Rs 4.8 billion and Rs 4.5 billion respectively. Therefore, MCB emerged the highest bidder"
Rs 4.5 billion wass the original bid of the consortium to whom UBL was sold later. They were clearly not expecting a high bid from MCB as Shortcut had already promised them the sale. Then the media kicked in and then GoP was forced to accept its "wrongdoings" and corruption.
"State Bank of Pakistan cleared all the three bidders but suggested to the Privatization Commission to ask the participants to improve their bids. MCB was prompt in raising its bid from Rs 8.5 billion to Rs 12 billion and the revised bid was accepted by the Commission"
Later, "Abu Dhabi Consortium sent a fax indicating its intention to match MCB's revised bid" - Clear indication that a massive 8 billion rupees corruption was going to take place (from the original bid) while the final bid is also highly debated. You can sort throuigh only archives and find dispassionate reviews on this.
Hence, the Privatization commenced by the Commando Govt was full of exposed corruption, shady deals and huge kickbacks. Don't claim that it somehow brought investment and these institutions were national burdens which somehow became profitable later on.
This is the only economic marker you know of. I am not educated in the fields of economics and finance but I can at least understand the basics.
Providing huge subsidies on electricity and gas keep inflation down artificially, the bubble bursts later. Our economy has gone down the drain not because Shaukat Tarin or Ishaq Dar didn't manage it properly or Zardari took a share out of it but because of years of mismanagement, artificially reduced inflation and the global economic crisis. Also, 2003-04 saw an unprecedented global economic boom. Times are different now.
MQM was brought into the federal and provincial governments, that's what he wanted to say. Is that a conspiracy theory? Don't counter this by saying that they are in the federal and provincial govt now as well. Times were different in 2002. They have entrenched themselves in the past 8 years thanks to the patronization received at the hands of the general.
So Bandari and Jacobabad were just "adday" to move rations. I wonder why a C-130 and a Predator crashed from the bases in Jan and May 2002 respectively....
Give credit to the enemy when he serves but don't defend pointlessly. It was to save his own skin. Brought the "corruption king and queen" as he used to say back to save his throne.
You have failed to answer the question raised about extrajudicial murder of Akbar Bugti and the case of "intelligence agencies" abducting people. A two bit intelligence officer has no right to keep people in custody without judicial remand. He is a servant of the state, not a state thug. Do not counter this by saying that Akbar Bugti was unpatriotic or was working hand in hand with RAW, that would be out of context and moving away from the debate.
You don't seem to know those who enjoyed jails in the second NS govt and who fought for their rights. Commando sb opened the doors and I give credit to him for that but it was time anyways. The doors would have opened sooner or later. He gets only partial credit for this. The other half goes tot he journalists enjoyed prison sentences, baton charges and state torture.
[/QUOTE]696796]Lots of disinformation on the 'achievements' of the Musharraf regime in the above post. A while back, I had compiled a list of how Mr. Musharraf served Pakistan's interest first; for the interest of the members, I am reposting it.
Well he was not a fine example, but a finest example of an 'imposed' leader who 'forcefully' guided his nation to an ultimate doom. Would you like to highlight those Pakistani interests, which he served first? OK, let me help you here.
1. The Ex-PM Sharif and Ex-PM Vajpaee were negotiating for the peace in Lahore, and the renegade Musharraf was sending troops (without taking into confidence the Corp Commanders, the Services Chiefs of Air force and Navy, the PM, the Cabinet) and sabotaging those peace talks between India and Pakistan; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
2. When the PM dismissed him (with full constitutional and legal authority) from his post due to the disobedience and unprofessionalism he showed during Kargil, he reinstated himself unconstitutionally and illegally with the help of the other renegade Corp Commanders and threw the elected PM into the jail and even got him punished in the false accounts by the lower courts; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
3. He allowed the American troops in his country, and gave them airfields to carry out attacks on the neighboring Islamic country; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
4. He sold out undisclosed number of Pakistanis (innocent until proven guilty) to the Americans without first trying them in the Pakistani courts of law; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
5. He instructed his serving General of the political wing of ISI to rig the general elections and brought PML(Q) and so-called Islamic parties into power, and used this illegitimate parliament as a rubber stamp to further his ambitions; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
6. He, through the help of his illegitimate Parliament (result of rigging) and sold-out/oppressed Judges (result of LFO), adulterated the constitution and introduced clauses in order to achieve full amnesty for his unconstitutional actions and illegal rule; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
7. He mishandled the Lal Mosque issue, which resulted in the loss of life (both the civilians and the Army personnel) and resulted in a widespread anger against the regime, and the Army; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
8. He, through his banker PM, Shoukat Aziz sold out the profitable national assets on the rates far below their actual value and not to the highest bidders. Only Pakistan Steel managed to escape and that too because of the intervention of the honorable Chief Justice; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
9. Under his regime, the nation was deliberately and at institutional level misguided on the economical condition/progress. The governments coffers were artificially inflated due to the money sent home by the overseas Pakistanis post 9/11 and which had nothing to do with the economical policies of his or his banker PM Shoukat Aziz. His banker PM introduced novel and totally misguiding scales of measuring the economical growth, that were, number of cars running on the roads and the cell phones sold; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
10. He dismissed the honorable Justices, put them and their family members under house arrests, and tried to destroy the judiciary; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
11. He patronized a known terrorist lingual organization in Karachi, hired the terrorist elements of this organization to hijack Karachi in order to stop the visit of the CJP and publicly supported their terrorizing actions that included a dozen deaths on May 11; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
12. He mishandled the Balochistan issue, gave a free hand to the Army and intelligence agencies to abduct anybody anywhere. None of the abductees ever presented into the courts of law or given a chance of legal defense. Sardar Akbar Bugti was extra-judicially murdered and his rival clan was awarded the right to rule Sui and Dera Bugti; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
13. He introduced the black ordinance called NRO to cut a shameful deal with the exiled political leaders, pardoned them for all their corruption even murder charges in return of the extension of his presidency; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
14. He mischievously tried to bag the credit for freeing up the media which in reality was the result of the selfless struggle and sacrifices largely by the press and to some extent electronic media and lots of pressure from the free-media-obsessed Western countries; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?
Find yourself a copy of the 72 constitution, the Prime Minister advises the president regarding these matters but without the President's consent and signature, appointment cannot be carried out.
This clause is associated with the one that states that "The President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will be the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces"
Well when you are selling an Industry that is consistently bankrupt and plagued by corruption, it becomes very hard to make demands, all we can do is just salute the highest bidder and hand over............not really the best position to make demands........
I wrote a pretty large economic comparison on the last page, read that one.
Like I said old cases which could not be proven.
There is no evidence to support your claim. Saying that it has never been revealed and some uncle/friend's father told it to you has no credibility. If this was what actually happened, then the state would have said it because it would demonstrate the callousness and the inhumane nature of Bugti. They never said it, nor did anybody else.He was hiding in a cave, refusing to come out, three officers were sent in to negotiate with him and he killed all three
He wasn't the first person, MQM has been winning clean house from Karachi and Hyderabad for as long as i can remember.
Complete denial mode. I guess you have forgotten the summers without electricity in '07 and '08.
"The country may plunge into energy crisis by the year 2007 due to rising electricity demand which enters into double digit figure following increasing sale of electrical and electronic appliances on lease finance, it is reliably learnt Thursday" - Energy Bulletin, July 2, 2004
All data based from figures acquired from NEPRA (National Electric Power Regulatory Authority)'s website including Annual Reports and State of Industry Reports.
Always, always check your facts. Beloved commando never "started" the Ghazi Barotha project. Coming up with the half truths is worse than coming up with none.
ADB report "construction commencing in early 1996"
Land acquisition, Construction and Civil Works, Electrical and Mechanical Works and everything else started way before the general came in. It was completed when he was sitting on the throne. He deserves no credit for it.
Read "E. Project Schedule" on page 16 of the report for the reasons in the 3 year delays in the GB project.
Ghazi Barotha Hydropower Project - Asian Development Bank
RPPs are a debatable issue and kickbacks in those deals aren't out of question but Raja Pervaiz Ashraf did not create this crisis nor is he responsible for it. You can complain that their response hasn't been as praiseworthy as it should have been but you cannot blame it on him. Do you even remember the name of the previous Federal Minister for Water and Power? Nobody does because he freaking didn't do anything.
General Sb's biggest slogan "Ehtesab" was the biggest farce of all. However depotic the 2nd govt of NS was and however politically motivated the Ehtesab Commission was, you have to give them due credit for their work if they did it. NAB has been a complete failure, plea bargains to avoid long court cases thus guilty people going back to US to live for free. Ethesab Commission for the first and only time in our history uncovered "foreign" and "Swiss" accounts. Money trails were uncovered in detail for the first and only time. Senator Saif ur Rehman was an evil guy and all his actions were mere political vengeance but his output was visible. NAB relied only on the earlier evidences to accuse BB/AZ. Evidences of corruption against NS were weak because BB's govt's never managed to do the kind of uncovering the Ehtesab Commission did.
Slogan : "Ehtesab"
Result : Complete failure. Nobody prosecuted. No new evidences. Plea bargains. Ultimately deals with "corruption queen and king" to save own skin.
I have done my homework but you are clearly wrong here. Article 243(2-c) of the original 1973 Constitution:-
(c) to appoint the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee,] the Chief of the Army Staff, the Chief of the Naval Staff and the Chief of the Air Staff, and determine their salaries and allowances.
Legislative History:-
On March 2,1985 the PRESIDENT'S ORDER 14 of 1985(REVIVAL OF THE CONSTITUTION OF 1973 ORDER, 1985) was issued. Item 50(2) read:-
In clause (3), in paragraph (c), after the word "appoint", the words and commas "in his discretion the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee." shall be inserted.
Hence, it was now the President's own discretion.
Following is the clause of (4) of The Constitution (Thirteenth Amendment) Act, 1997
In the Constitution, in Article 243, in clause
(2) in sub-clause (c) the words "in his discretion" shall be omitted.
This brought the ball back to the park of the PM.
Then the Legal Framework Order, 2002 (Chief Executive's Order No. 24 of 2002) changed it to the following:-
"The President shall, in his discretion, appoint"
Which brought the ball back to the Aiwan e Sadr.
If the words "in his discretion" aren't used article 48(1) and (2) clearly say that the President will just by acting entirely on the advice of the PM and the cabinet. If the words "in his discretion" aren't used, then such powers are just signing powers and the President is supposed to obey everything like the figure head of state, which he is supposed to be.
Please, don't defend wrong things like you've done them yourselves. It does not hurt to accept that your messiah was wrong on a whole lot of matters, irrespective of his unconstitutional rule.
Consistently bankrupt? Did you even read? PSM gave a profit of Rs. 8 billion and PTCL a profit of Rs. 27 billion? Does that look like a burden to you? We're talking about profits not losses..
HBL and UBL were highly profitable. Only the most profitable institutions were sold out. Accept the mistakes and the corruption.
I'll come with a much detailed comparison for you later in the week. But for starters, there's a big thing called Purchasing Power Parity. Use that not just numbers. Economists use complex formulas to equate historical figures according to inflation and PPP to compare figures across years and boundaries. The kind of table you present, I'm bored of seeing. Clearly demonstrates lack of economic understanding. No personal offense but come with solid arguments to support your claims as well. As the guy above said, we were being transformed from an agro based economy to a consumer financing one. That never helps.
He did to save his won skin not for wide ranging political reconciliation or saving the state the expense of prosecuting decade old cases. We know the spirit behind it and so do you.
This wasn't my point but they were winning but sidelined by the federation. They're a compulsory part of the federal government for the foreseeable future now thanks to Commando.