Mumbai trial: Was Kasab the sole culprit? | PKKH.tv

[surya kiran]

When there are criminals, how do you close the net? When fighting the Mumbai mafia, did you guys interrogate the criminals first hand? collect evidence first hand?

No, we executed. Mumbai police style. Its called encounter. No court, nothing. Plain execution. That's how the shiver started in the Mumbai underworld.

 

[Developereo]

No, we executed. Mumbai police style. Its called encounter. No court, nothing. Plain execution. That's how the shiver started in the Mumbai underworld.

I doubt it. Usually, police use the street-level guys to lead them to the big bosses and to build a case against them.

The top leaders of crime syndicates are often 'respectable' people who don't sully themselves on the streets.

 

[surya kiran]

I doubt it. Usually, police use the street-level guys to lead them to the big bosses and to build a case against them.

The top leaders of crime syndicates are often 'respectable' people who don't sully themselves on the streets.

I am from Mumbai. And I know what the cops did. That is where we had specialists called encounter specialists. Their jobs wre to clean the streets of Mumbai. The ATS was made for this specific purpose. Did a superlative job of the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Encounter_Squad

But, coming back to the argument. With the resources and intelligence available with the Pak agencies, can it not crack a simple case? You have informants in practically all the ****** groups. You trained these guys in the past! With such networks, there is only one answer. The Pak government prefers to go slow, god forbid, some 'non-state' actor turns out to be too powerful to take down.

 

[Sashan]

If any US investigators 'pointed fingers' at ISI, then they need their heads examined. What does it mean to 'point fingers'? That someone alleged something? Sure, so what? Bring credible evidence, build a prima facie case before wasting ISI's time. Random accusations without corroborating evidence means zilch. Without legal follow through, all this 'finger pointing' is just media posturing for propaganda purposes.
As for Kasab's accomplices, the OP has explained the situation very well. From day ONE, India has been far more interested in playing politics and using this event to attack Pakistan than to solve the criminal case in good faith. Pakistan has been denied first-hand access to evidence and is being asked to conduct a very serious investigation by remote control.

It is true that, due to political expediency, India's shenanigans have been supported by the West, but the fact remains that the primary stumbling block to resolving the full criminal landscape has always been India, not Pakistan.

Ahh - here comes the excuse as usual - media posturing for propaganda purposes. Do you realise hat the investigators presented the evidence as well as Headley testimony in a Chicago court? . But what has Pakistan contributed in pursuing the evidence? I would accept if they pursued it and found it to be false but ruling it out outright? Cmon who are you kidding here about the altruistic nature of the Pakistan.

Here is more - Sajid Mir was sentenced in absentia in a French court in 2007 for a different terrorism related case and he was identified as the mastermind by the Indian investigators with the help of FBI after matching the voice of his in 2008. Two different cases - one he was convicted and one he was the prime accused and one accused by both Indian and US investigators. Let me know what has Pakistan done here.

And you want to convince the world that you want to investigate a small pawn by way of Kasab and establish the rest of the players?

Rather I would say India playing politics and destroying whatever Pakistan's standing among the world countries is the more appropriate response.

 

[Developereo]

Ahh - here comes the excuse as usual - media posturing for propaganda purposes. Do you realise hat the investigators presented the evidence as well as Headley testimony in a Chicago court? . But what has Pakistan contributed in pursuing the evidence? I would accept if they pursued it and found it to be false but ruling it out outright? Cmon who are you kidding here about the altruistic nature of the Pakistan.

Yes, the 'evidence' was email and phone numbers. So, someone called Major Iqbal had an email and a phone. Where does it tie him to the ISI?

No one is denying that there was someone calling himself an ISI agent. But just calling yourself one, doesn't make you such an agent.

And you want to convince the world that you want to investigate a small pawn by way of Kasab and establish the rest of the players?

That's the way it works in the real world. You follow the leads you have, however small, and you do that by getting first-hand access to the source.

Rather I would say India playing politics and destroying whatever Pakistan's standing among the world countries is the more appropriate response.

No argument there. India is more interested in grandstanding and playing politics against Pakistan than in actually resolving the criminal investigation in good faith.

 

[Sashan]

Yes, the 'evidence' was email and phone numbers. So, someone called Major Iqbal had an email and a phone. Where does it tie him to the ISI?

No one is denying that there was someone calling himself an ISI agent. But just calling yourself one, doesn't make you such an agent.



That's the way it works in the real world. You follow the leads you have, however small, and you do that by getting first-hand access to the source.



No argument there. India is more interested in grandstanding and playing politics against Pakistan than in actually resolving the criminal investigation in good faith.

For the highlighted portion what about Sajid Mir? You conveniently ignored him while he was identified as the mastermind of the 26/11? What happened to the small leads given by U.S and Indian investigators? Not to mention the evidence by French investigators in a different case. Have you tried to pursue him? None.

And India had given some 11 dossiers with evidences about the players of 26/11 and where have all these evidences gone? Again maybe small leads and what has Pakistan done? And many here in this same forum ridiculed it as dossier politics.

And whatever maybe the email evidence or phone nos by U.S investigators - any tracking of ip addresses or something of that followup of small lead by Pakistan and establishing him as an ISI/non-ISI player? None. Zilch.

And now you are trying to convince the whole world resolving crime in good faith while you started with denial of the identity of Kasab and later on forced to accept in the place of mounting evidence.

 

[Developereo]

For the highlighted portion what about Sajid Mir? You conveniently ignored him while he was identified as the mastermind of the 26/11? What happened to the small leads given by U.S and Indian investigators? Not to mention the evidence by French investigators in a different case. Have you tried to pursue him? None.

And India had given some 11 dossiers with evidences about the players of 26/11 and where have all these evidences gone? Again maybe small leads and what has Pakistan done? And many here in this same forum ridiculed it as dossier politics.

And whatever maybe the email evidence or phone nos by U.S investigators - any tracking of ip addresses or something of that followup of small lead by Pakistan and establishing him as an ISI/non-ISI player? None. Zilch.

And now you are trying to convince the whole world resolving crime in good faith while you started with denial of the identity of Kasab and later on forced to accept in the place of mounting evidence.

We're going in circles.

You need to understand the difference between enough evidence to bring someone to trial v/s convicting them of a crime without reasonable doubt. All the 'evidences' provided were enough to bring people in for questioning, but not enough for conviction. As for India's dossiers, if you question the validity of Pakistan's court system, why should Indian "evidence" be held any more credible? Especially when India steadfastly refuses to let Pakistan interrogate the person first-hand.

That's the way it works around the world. Just because the verdict didn't suit India's wishes doesn't mean legal process should be discarded.

 

[Sashan]

We're going in circles.

You need to understand the difference between enough evidence to bring someone to trial v/s convicting them of a crime without reasonable doubt. All the 'evidences' provided were enough to bring people in for questioning, but not enough for conviction. As for India's dossiers, if you question the validity of Pakistan's court system, why should Indian "evidence" be held any more credible? Especially when India steadfastly refuses to let Pakistan interrogate the person first-hand.

That's the way it works around the world. Just because the verdict didn't suit India's wishes doesn't mean legal process should be discarded.

Let me be clear. I do not have doubts about the Pakistan courts. I am expressing my doubts about the elements with vested interests within the Pakistani government to effectively pursue, investigate a case and present the appropriate evidence to your court. As you mentioned we are going in circles. But I would say something short of a initiating a conflict with Pakistan post 26/11 or some counter-ops in pursuing the wanted individuals, GOI has done an excellent job in potraying Pakistan in a very negative way among the world powers.

 

[surya kiran]

We're going in circles.

You need to understand the difference between enough evidence to bring someone to trial v/s convicting them of a crime without reasonable doubt. All the 'evidences' provided were enough to bring people in for questioning, but not enough for conviction. As for India's dossiers, if you question the validity of Pakistan's court system, why should Indian "evidence" be held any more credible? Especially when India steadfastly refuses to let Pakistan interrogate the person first-hand.

That's the way it works around the world. Just because the verdict didn't suit India's wishes doesn't mean legal process should be discarded.

Are you suggesting that the Pak government agencies cannot find any information about the operators? Btw, the Pakistani court ruled that the report submitted by your Commission, not the Indian commission, was illegal. Feel free to correct me on this.

Here you go. Another link for you to read

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n...let-camps-closed-after-mumbai-attack-atc-told

Five inspectors of Crime Investigation Department (CID) apprised the Anti-Terrorism Court (ATC) Rawalpindi Number 1 that the law enforcement agencies had shut down the different training camps of banned outfit Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) in Pakistan in November 2008 after brazen attacks were launched in Mumbai, India.

The prosecution witnesses, in their statements before the ATC No 1, stated that they collected the details about LeT training centers in the country and sent reports to the government.

The witnesses recognised the accused Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi as the operational commander of LeT, Shahid Jamil Riaz, Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu al-Qama, Hammad Amin Sadiq and Abdul Wajid alias Zarar Shah as active members of the banned outfit.

Now you are you saying that your own investigating officers were trying to frame the LeT by lying?

Developero, just let it go. Don't try to justify things which you cannot defend. Kasab has been executed. The danger to Pak is itself if it keeps doing what its doing. When you have decided that you want to release the guy, no amount of evidence can be used.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the last culprits are the people inside india who cleverly targetted Hemant Karkare and "killed 2 birds with one stone"

 

[Developereo]

GOI has done an excellent job in potraying Pakistan in a very negative way among the world powers.

This part we agree on, although for different reasons.

Are you suggesting that the Pak government agencies cannot find any information about the operators?

If the evidence isn't there, it isn't there.

Now you are you saying that your own investigating officers were trying to frame the LeT by lying?

I am not defending the LeT, but questioning the claims of ISI involvement in 26/11.

 

[surya kiran]

If the evidence isn't there, it isn't there.

Evidence 1 : Kasab is a Pakistani. claimed by Indian media. Proved by Pakistani media. Accepted by Pak Govt.
Evidence 2 : Kasab received training in Pakistan LeT camps. Claimed by India. Findings of Pakistani commission. Confirmed by Pakistani CID team.

If he was trained in Pakistan, are you saying the Pakistani investigative team is so incompetent that they cannot find informaiton about terror groups they themselves raised? The point is not if ISI is involved or not. The point is Pakistani soil was used. The Pakistani commission agreed. The CID team shut down the training camps and its in their report to the court. Now if they were not trained in Pakistan why did they shut down the camp? Lets get this straight. You cannot prosecute Hafeez Saeed. And the reason is less to do with evidence and more to do with the fact that you will face civil war if you prosecute him. And are worried about the internal consequences of the same. So, just let it rest. Its not that your chaps are incompetent, its jsut that you are pushing your head int he sand and are hoping the problem will go away itself.

 

[my2cents]

Tu bhai mere itni jaldi kya thee phansi denay ki?
Why don't you let Pakistani investigators interrogate him? What these pictures prove? Where is he actually killing anyone? And i have never seen a terrorist nicely shaved, hair styled, 6 pocket trouser clean as a whistle.. And as per your claims he has traveled 3 days on rough sea? Really amazing

tuje kya padi ye mare ya nahi??? ye to aap ka hi nahi tha.

You guys have committed faux pas since very beginning and proved yourself incompetent to any meaningful investigation. Save the BS because too much water has gone under the bridge.