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Mumbai to Shanghai, a distant dream

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Shanghai: This city, the largest in the world, was never on my bucket list. Now, I want to go back to hang out and discover the promise it revealed on an abbreviated trip. What a wonderful town! Just an off-the-top assessment: this city was born global and has embraced, unlike Bombay, its international heritage.

So here's the thing: you land at the Pudong International Airport and get the sense of desolate grandeur and last-mile incompetence that you see at Delhi's T3 white-elephant terminal. The difference is the immigration officials all looked very professional; there were no casual "supervisors" hanging about; no officious flunkies escorting VIPs; the security men were real, not guys scratching their privates.

Our designated chauffer was waiting with a graphically soothing placard; young fellow who spoke English and was exceptionally polite. He drove us on wonderful, well-lit expressways to our hotel. We couldn't see much of the city because of the smog but the lights on the highway were bright and we zoomed into the Pudong city center with the smoothness you can only associate with Western transit.

My lack of enthusiasm for the trip-to attend an Asian PR conference-was challenged by my two daughters who accompanied me. "Get over it, Dad. It'll be great," they chorused, brushing aside my concern about language and my Indian jaundiced eye. I was just 13 in 1962 when China delivered the knockout punch that sent the burgeoning republic of India into a tizzy from which it is still to recover.

On my own, I would have checked into the hotel, attended the conference and done the regulatory sightseeing, eaten the standard five-star hotel food and come away marveling at the city with its colored-light modernity. With my daughters in attendance, we traipsed through the Huangpu and Xuhui districts and saw parts of the city that I probably would never have visited, especially when the day temperature was two degrees Celsius and windy.

Shanghai is seared in my memory because of my daughters; the one is the mother of my precocious granddaughter; the other a New York sophisticate. They are so cool and so well-informed that I just let them take me here, there and everywhere. We walked through the old town, wandered through Xintiandi, the upscale part of the French Concession neighborhood that also boasts of the home of the suave Zhou Enlai (Chou En-lai), who served as the premier of China from 1949 t0 1976.

Zhou was the interlocutor for Jawaharlal Nehru at the Bandung Conference of 1955, in which the first principles of the Nonaligned Movement were articulated; a year before in Peking (now Beijing), Zhou signed with Nehru the Panchsheel Treaty, binding India and China to an agreement of peaceful coexistence.

As we walked through Xintiandi, I marveled at the restoration; here was a city that embraced it European heritage…so unlike any Indian city. My time in Shanghai was cut short because of a family emergency but we did get a chance to walk around People's Square and take in the Bund, a gorgeous esplanade on the Huangpu River, with its barges and bridges.
From the Bund, you can see in shimmering watercolor impressionism, the high rises of Pudong, which my girls called the Gurgaon of Shanghai; looking to our back, we saw the traditional Tudor-style buildings, including the Waldorf Astoria Hotel, where we stopped to have afternoon tea.

We walked and walked, marveling at the sheer exuberance of street life even in the cold two-degree-Celsius weather. As we followed Nanjing Road to People's Square, I kept thinking that the Bombay of the 1950s that I knew and loved could have become like this, except power-grubbing politicians, venal bureaucrats and apathetic citizens destroyed it and condemned it to be a slum.

Unlike any city in India, Shanghai seems to be livable for the average citizen; you can actually walk the streets, which you cannot in any Indian city; its riches seem to have been shared with the people. Roads, sidewalks, gardens, public art and mass transport; they have it all in spades; they also have preserved and enhanced their colonial heritage. "Inclusive growth" is not a slogan here; it's real.

In the most superficial assessment, if one is to compare to Shanghai to Bombay (and frankly, there's no comparison), it is clear that Shanghai is in a totally different league, comparable to Paris. Duh! It is called Paris of the East.

Shanghai has almost 24 million people compared to Bombay's 21 million. There can be no question that life seems to be hugely better in the Chinese city. These comparisons are impressionist, I grant you. There's no mistaking, however, the dignity of common people and the preponderance of public goods. If Bombay is part of a democracy (and this is dubious, given the thugs of the Shiv Sena) and Shanghai of an authoritarian system, then without any survey or anything, just looking at the ground reality, I'd rather as an ordinary citizen be living in Shanghai.

In the end, two things stood out. One, the Chinese political system, opaque though it is, seems to throw up decisive leaders, committed to enhancing the public interest. Two, the life of citizens seems to be light years ahead of the daily hassles, slum culture and criminal violence in Indian cities.

As for the race between India and China, I am saddened to report India never even made it to the starting line. It is very likely, as a friend told me, that India is to China as Mexico is to the United States.


Shanghai Surprise by Capital Letter : Rajiv Desai 's blog-The Times Of India
 
Please don't insult Mexico by putting India in the same league as Mexico. India should be compared with the worst African countries like Somalia. Even relatively wealthy African countries such as South Africa are far better off than India.

India will NEVER EVER get within touching distance of China. The Indian boasting mentality and their primitive culture (caste system, kooky religion, staggering corruption) will make sure they remain a 3rd world failed state for a very very long time!

Any Indian that had any dreams about matching China......continue your dream, because it will always remain a dream.
 
India premier said in 2004: in 5 years people will forget Shanghai and talk about Mumbai

India does love to boast. :P
U r right about that mate. Our politicians DO like to boast and let one of these statement off their behind , which IS embarrassment.

Although I both , agree and disagree with few things said in the article , i.e.

The infra is way way better in China , I have not been there , yet , which India lacks , the democracy can suck some times. But I wud hate to be forcefully relocated just to make way for a shopping mall.

Disagreed to the part of , " One cannot even walk in Bombay" (WTH is that suppose to mean , this one flew over the top of my head) , beside others!!

Anyway.. both the systems has their share of pros and cons. But personally I wud rather live in a democratic country than in an authoritarian rule. Some may differ.

But comparing India to Somalia , sure LightningBolt do not know a lot about India , its his personal hate that is been reflected here and he know it :P

O.p.e.n. y.o.u.r. m.i.n.d. .. <------ there I wrote nice and slow for U to understand.
So when am I going to be blasted with your xx-00 missile and nukes?
 
Please don't insult Mexico by putting India in the same league as Mexico. India should be compared with the worst African countries like Somalia. Even relatively wealthy African countries such as South Africa are far better off than India.

India will NEVER EVER get within touching distance of China. The Indian boasting mentality and their primitive culture (caste system, kooky religion, staggering corruption) will make sure they remain a 3rd world failed state for a very very long time!

Any Indian that had any dreams about matching China......continue your dream, because it will always remain a dream.

I haven't been to China but there's a comment in that same article

I was too visiting China last year for a month. From Beijing on the way to Shanghai I visited many cities and took a long 300 km rides on Yangsee river. Yes now China can be compared with US cities but the story behind it is horrific. Chinese Communist dictators have shifted people in millions from their homes to another places unknown. To make Beijing Olympic compund lacs and lacs people were uprooted and moved somewhere no one knows. Torture on people, no free speech or no criticism is the norm in China. I did not see any poor people on the main city as they are now living in restricted areas. I went to Hutan where ordinary people live out side of Beijing. Rikswa pullars, street tea shops, street beggars are there. They go to work in the city but has to come back to live here. China Govt. is dumping goods all over the world by bonded labours who live and eat in the same factories just like our bonded labours in tea garden or cotton mills. The goods they make are subsidised by the Govt. They sell an unit for half a price even the production cost is more than they sell. We the naive blind people dance in their prosperity which is nothing but a barbarian regime like any Communist country.

Not that stuff like this doesn't happen in India but it's more out on the open that's why you see slums everywhere. I wouldn't exactly compare Chinese cities to the United States, we don't uproot people so that they can be relocated elsewhere. That kinda coercion has been illegal since the end of slavery days (mid 19th century).

China is more third world than you think except Hong Kong of course.
 
I haven't been to China but there's a comment in that same article

Not that stuff like this doesn't happen in India but it's more out on the open that's why you see slums everywhere. I wouldn't exactly compare Chinese cities to the United States, we don't uproot people so that they can be relocated elsewhere. That kinda coercion has been illegal since the end of slavery days (mid 19th century).

China is more third world than you think except Hong Kong of course.

Residents who are asked to move are compensated with full market value.

If China is 3rd world, India is still in stone age.
 
Of course - if Bombay disallowed the free movement of people into it, it too would be far easier to develop along the lines of Shanghai - how difficult is it to get the idea that authoritarian regimes can't be compared to democracies. China has a long way to catch up with India. Till then, we will continue to give refugee status to Chinese citizens.
 
I haven't been to China but there's a comment in that same article



Not that stuff like this doesn't happen in India but it's more out on the open that's why you see slums everywhere. I wouldn't exactly compare Chinese cities to the United States, we don't uproot people so that they can be relocated elsewhere. That kinda coercion has been illegal since the end of slavery days (mid 19th century).

China is more third world than you think except Hong Kong of course.

100% agree with you india will never uproot people to any where evil china communists love to uproot people from slum to a world class city.
 
100% agree with you india will never uproot people to any where evil china communists love to uproot people from slum to a world class city.

Which explains why so many of them still live in caves.
 
Residents who are asked to move are compensated with full market value.

If China is 3rd world, India is still in stone age.

So, what happened at Tiananmen square? Not mean to provoke but why is your government so hard on pro-democracy protesters and human rights activists? In a civil society, there is always room for opposition.

I'm not comparing backward India to China but on its own merit, the latter fails to impress... any civilized country should value democracy, rule of law, copyright protection and free speech...way ahead of economic growth
 
So, what happened at Tiananmen square? Not mean to provoke but why is your government so hard on pro-democracy protesters and human rights activists? In a civil society, there is always room for opposition.

I'm not comparing backward India to China but on its own merit, the latter fails to impress... any civilized country should value democracy, rule of law, copyright protection and free speech...way ahead of economic growth

But the Chinese people are not like others. They are so far down on the ladder of social evolution, that these concept of freedom are difficult for them to grasp. They have always been ruled - by Emperors, by the Japanese or by the Communist Party. They accept it and make the most of it.
 
So, what happened at Tiananmen square? Not mean to provoke but why is your government so hard on pro-democracy protesters and human rights activists? In a civil society, there is always room for opposition.

I'm not comparing backward India to China but on its own merit, the latter fails to impress... any civilized country should value democracy, rule of law, copyright protection and free speech...way ahead of economic growth

First, google to see if protest is allowed in China. Second, learn history thru books, not news media. Students were protesting for months in Tiananmen, Chinese Premier even met student leaders for negotiation, but they refused to back down unless the govt dissolved. That is not just a protest, it's blackmailing, almost tantamount to a coup. No govt is going to back down.

Why should China be judged by western standard of democracy? Chinese are living well, enjoying first world living standard. We are not like Indians who think they are westerners, championing democracy all the time. Yet India's democracy cannot solved its high illiteracy, hunger, poverty and corruption.
 
First, google to see if protest is allowed in China. Second, learn history thru books, not news media. Students were protesting for months in Tiananmen, Chinese Premier even met student leaders for negotiation, but they refused to back down unless the govt dissolved. That is not just a protest, it's blackmailing, almost tantamount to a coup. No govt is going to back down.

Why should China be judged by western standard of democracy? Chinese are living well, enjoying first world living standard. We are not like Indians who think they are westerners, championing democracy all the time. Yet India's democracy cannot solved its high illiteracy, hunger, poverty and corruption.

If Western concept of democracy can work so well in Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea..why not China?
 
Coincidentally I was browsing totallycoolpix ... when I came acroos this..
The difference between Chinas rich and poor is just like anywhere else , be it US , UK or India.
Take a look yourselves..

p.s. i am not making joke of less well off people.. so please dont take it in that light.

This is titled , "A Fake Paris in China" google it on the website mentioned above... Im posting just a few pics.

fake_paris_china_001.jpg


fake_paris_china_003.jpg


fake_paris_china_007.jpg


fake_paris_china_009.jpg


fake_paris_china_014.jpg
 
If Western concept of democracy can work so well in Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea..why not China?


Taiwan and South Korea only became democratic in the 80s. Japan was a one-party rule since WW2 until the last few elections. In the course of history, that's too short to say if it works well. There is no one size fits all system. Take a look at the 3rd world countries today, they are all democracy. Why must China adopts democracy when its current model is lifting millions of people into the first world living standard?
 
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